Irish Abortion Laws Illegal??

[thejuice]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11342247

Irish abortion ban 'violated woman's rights'

The women complained they had been humiliated by Irish restrictions on abortion


The European Court of Human Rights has ruled that Irish abortion laws violated the rights of one of three women who sought terminations in Britain.

The woman, who was in remission for a rare form of cancer, feared it might return as a result of her pregnancy.

While abortion in the Republic is technically allowed if a woman's life is at risk, the court said that was not made possible for the woman involved.

But it ruled two other women in the case had not had their rights breached.

Thursday's ruling could require a change to Irish law.

Respect for private life

The first two women in the case were a single mother who had other children in care and a woman who was concerned about the danger of an ectopic pregnancy.

All three women said they had suffered medical complications on returning to the Irish Republic and said they believed they had not been entitled to an abortion under Irish law.

They all complained that Irish restrictions on abortion had stigmatised and humiliated them, risking damage to their health.

However the third woman had argued that even though she believed her pregnancy had put her life at risk, there was no law or procedure for her to have her right to an abortion established.

The court said that the government in Dublin had breached the third woman's right to respect for her private life by its "failure to implement the existing constitutional right to a lawful abortion in Ireland".

It ruled that "neither the medical consultation nor litigation options, relied on by the Irish government, constituted effective and accessible procedures which allowed the third applicant to establish her right to a lawful abortion in Ireland".

[seafoid]

The abortion laws are cowardly. Over 8,000 women in Ireland every year need an abortion. What would Ireland do if abortion was illegal in Britain? 

[pintsofguinness]

The abortion laws are cowardly. Over 8,000 women in Ireland every year need an abortion. What would Ireland do if abortion was illegal in Britain?

Where's the stats for that and could you define your definition of "need"? 

[Rouge_Diablo]

And of course there is the additional piece that Brussels have forced a change in Irish law.....

[Pangurban]

Typical, misleading,sensationalist reporting. The ruling in the Court today was purely advisory and has no standing or consequence in law. No Womans rights were violated, as Abortion is not a human right ensconced in any piece of Human Rights legislation anywhere in the world

[seafoid]

The abortion laws are cowardly. Over 8,000 women in Ireland every year need an abortion. What would Ireland do if abortion was illegal in Britain?

Where's the stats for that and could you define your definition of "need"?

Look them up yourself. 8000 women in Ireland per year don't want to have a baby. If England wasn't there what would Ireland do ? Pretending that Ireland is somehow morally superior to
England because it doesn't allow abortion is pathetic.   

[pintsofguinness]

The abortion laws are cowardly. Over 8,000 women in Ireland every year need an abortion. What would Ireland do if abortion was illegal in Britain?

Where's the stats for that and could you define your definition of "need"?

Look them up yourself. 8000 women in Ireland per year don't want to have a baby. If England wasn't there what would Ireland do ? Pretending that Ireland is somehow morally superior to
England because it doesn't allow abortion is pathetic.

No, you're the one that made the claim so you back it up. 
Interestingly you seem to have changed "need to have an abortion" to "don't want to have a baby". 

[Maguire01]

Typical, misleading,sensationalist reporting. The ruling in the Court today was purely advisory and has no standing or consequence in law.

Really?
BBC report states: As the rulings of the court are binding, it is now likely the Irish government will have to implement a woman's right to an abortion if her life is at risk.
RTÉ saying exactly the same thing.

No Womans rights were violated, as Abortion is not a human right ensconced in any piece of Human Rights legislation anywhere in the world

The ruling would suggest otherwise:
By eleven votes to six, that there had been no violation of Article 8 (right to private and family life) of the European Convention on Human Rights in respect of the first and the second applicants, and unanimously, that there had been a violation of Article 8 in respect of the third applicant.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1216/echr.pdf

[Lecale2]

This is complicated and appears to have been misreported by a number of agencies. It seems that the Court has a problem with the Irish procedure rather than the law. They are saying that the patients Dr should determine wheather her life is at risk rather than a court.

[Evil Genius]

I could be wrong, but as I read it, the Court is not saying that the Republic's abortion laws are deficient or discriminatory in principle etc.

Rather the problem seems to be that in practice, the 3rd woman was not allowed due access to her rights under the existing law, the key words from the report being as follows:
"... there was no law or procedure for her to have her right to an abortion established."

In other words, had the law as it stands been properly applied, then she would (might?) have been entitled to an abortion at home.

Edit: Just noticed Lecale2's post, above, which I think is in agreement with my own.

[Lazer]

The ruling has also decided the no human rights were breached in the first two cases, only in the third.
Alhough i think none of us are in a postion to judge, we don't have the details, my query with it all is that the only details given are, that the woman was afraid her cancer would return if she carried on with the pregancy - but we do not not have other information, such as how likely was the pregancy to cause the cancer to return.
We are entering very subjective grounds if we allow abortion on the grounds of people being afraid of becoming ill.
As the law and procedures stand, if the woman continued with her pregancy and the cancer did return, she would still have been offered all forms of treatment for the cancer, and if the treat eg: Chemo caused the death of the feotus, then that is considered ok as it was not the intention of the treatment

The case where the European courts decided the woman should have had an abortion, she was entitled to one under Irish Law, but there was no procedures there for it to be carried out, that is the issue, not the Irish Law.

Thankfully the Eurpoean Courts have not over exerted their authority, our domestic laws do not have to change.

Another issue with this is that I believe the medical coucil describe members carrying out abortions is malpractice, as the childs life is protected under the irish constitution.

[Capt Pat]

Abortion on a casual basis is pure evil, it is the tool of the fascists. We must not have it in this country unless the life of the mother is in extreme danger. This does not include mental problems.

[stephenite]

Abortion on a casual basis is pure evil, it is the tool of the fascists. We must not have it in this country unless the life of the mother is in extreme danger. This does not include mental problems.

Why doesn't it include mental problems?

[Zapatista]

Abortion on a casual basis is pure evil, it is the tool of the fascists. We must not have it in this country unless the life of the mother is in extreme danger. This does not include mental problems.

I think the problem is that Irish law doesn't allow for this. I think it's a widely held view that an abortion is legal in Ireland in this case but in reality there is no law allowing for it. I'm relatively new to this whole debate and from what I heard yesterday it will get even more confusing as the debate goes on.

I Evil Genuis got the ruling of the ECJ spot on.

I'm anti abortion in almost all cases but when I hear of people heading across the sea for abortion I stumble. If I accept that it does happen and it will happen and that pro-choice will never go away and will always be catered for I wobble a little. I hate to think that we are sending people out of the Country to do this. Either it's illegal or it's not and if Irish citizens are breaking Irish laws abroad then it should be treated as such. If not then it should be facilitated for in Ireland. It's a hear no evil see no evil approach that is sending Irish women away to do this. It's nothing more than a modern version of something you'd see in the Magdalene Sisters. It a disgracefull position for this state to take. It's about time we decided one way or the other.

[seafoid]

The abortion laws are cowardly. Over 8,000 women in Ireland every year need an abortion. What would Ireland do if abortion was illegal in Britain?

Where's the stats for that and could you define your definition of "need"?

Look them up yourself. 8000 women in Ireland per year don't want to have a baby. If England wasn't there what would Ireland do ? Pretending that Ireland is somehow morally superior to
England because it doesn't allow abortion is pathetic.

No, you're the one that made the claim so you back it up. 
Interestingly you seem to have changed "need to have an abortion" to "don't want to have a baby".

Over 100,000 Irish women have had abortions in England since abortion was legalised there in 1967.   I presume you are not a woman.
I imagine you have never had an unwanted pregnancy or been raped or been abandoned by the father of the child. You probably don't have money worries wondering how you would feed and clothe a child if money is already tight. Perhaps you have never been a married woman with an existing child with learning difficulties or a chronic illness and have not been told by your doctor that another child would have an elevated risk of same.     
Abortion is a reality.  Get over it.