Author Topic: Derry Club football and Hurling  (Read 9497521 times)

WaterBoy

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #53235 on: July 23, 2015, 12:03:05 PM »
Henry Downey no lazy analysis Shawshank. Far from it. I'm basing it on three things. 1. As a businessman he will build in a great backroom team and delegate accordingly to ensure there are people built in who are top notch. He won't make it all about him. 2. He has the respect of the county for obvious reasons. 3. He was highly involved with John Brennan and Jude Donnelly in taking a very middling Lavey team to within an inch (or a minute) of a county title three years ago. I believe he is the man who can pull your county back together.

Forget about what he has done as a manager. Look what he has achieved in other aspects of sporting and business career. He gets things done.

Is that not obvious enough. With Mickey Moran as his coach if he could entice him. Or is there a problem with Mickey ability too?
I wouldn't have any problem with Henry Downey personally (in fact I'd love to have him involved, as you say he has earned a lot of respect throughout the county) but to simply "forget about what he has done as a manager" is incredibly naive.  With modern systems and tactics as they are, it would be stupid to take a man on purely due to his success as a player and business man (how is this even relevant?).

Also, Lavey haven't even made a county final in almost 20 years so I'm not sure how they were within "an inch (or a minute) of a county title".

Derry's primary problem is that clubs take huge priority over the county set up, particularly in the minds of our players.  Within successful counties, every man in the panel has bought in fully to the idea of the team and will do whatever it takes to be successful and can put personal issues / club rivalries aside; I don't believe this is the case in Derry which means any manager stepping in to the role is fighting a losing battle right from the start.  Until we are able to get past this, Derry will continue to underachieve

This is a running theme on here, is there actually any evidence of this?? I'd be interested to hear examples from this season as to how club football/rivalry contributed to our defeats against Donegal & Galway. 

Could it be that our players just aren't good enough? Or that they are better than results have shown but Management just haven't been able to get the best out of them.

IMO the club thing is just an easy excuse
Mama says that foos-ball is the devil

Benchwarmer

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #53236 on: July 23, 2015, 12:55:45 PM »
A lot of talk about issues with previous management and who maybe will replace them to improve the standing of intercounty football in Derry!
Face facts lads, we are ranked 8-12 at best in the country going by talent and realistically an AI QF is the best we can expect at this time (maybe a semi with a kind draw) and I don't believe ANY new manager is going to elevate us into All Ireland contenders!
We the mob fought for Cassidy, Brennan and McIvor and treated each as the messiah as they took the job and many so called supporters then attacked these men's qualities when things didn't work out!
Personally I think Brian is still a fantastic manager but I suspect, in time, he may realise the team around him could have been better (or he should have pulled rank on tally and did it his own way) like the minor mgmt team! Damian McErlain's Management TEAM is impressive and it's no co incidence w are ulster champions!!

Anyway I believe it's time to rebuild in Derry!
Keep the minor mgmt were they are and create 5-6 good minor teams of players who know what is required to wear the county jersey at the highest level!
Lets get a quality mgmt team into u21 and out a PROPER emphasis on u21 (priority over seniors until after u21 c'ship) and build on the foundations created at minor level

Finally allow our senior manager time to work with the senior players and create the right environment for a senior intercounty football team so that when our youth mature the expectations of being a senior football are embedded!
Firstly the new manager must wipe the slate clean and the panel should be open to anyone deemed good enough!

And if any player doesn't want to play for his county then f**k him!!!
It should be an honour to play for Derry and if someone doesn't see that then so be it as they won't count when needed most!!

So in summary
Build from our youth starting at minors (maybe dev squads) and hopefully the talent will come through! This will take time and patience on our behalf but this is the best (and possibly only) way I can see Derry become an elite county!
We have the minor mgmt in place
Lets get ths right men into u21 and senior

DERRYSFINEST

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #53237 on: July 23, 2015, 01:10:59 PM »
Reading through the posts with interest.

How many paid coaches do we have employed in the county? Are they good value? How are they assessed and monitored?  Could this money be better used somewhere else?

What is Chris Collins role within the county? is it youth development? Has he been a success? Again who is he answerable to?

Are we getting the best results from these resources?

Walter Cronc

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #53238 on: July 23, 2015, 01:23:32 PM »
I think the work of Chris Collins, paid underage coaches and more importantly club volunteers has been huge.

Without being arrogant Derry club underage sides are ahead of other counties in Ulster.

Apologies of my lack of knowledge at B/C grade but:

Minors - Anyone of 4/5 sides could win the champ and possibly Ulster

U16s - Bellaghy very strong but Screen and 1 or 2 others also challenging

U14s - Lavey, Rossa very strong with 3/4 other sides not far off.

This is also reflected at schools level with Maghera beginning to dominate due to the work being put in by club coaches.

The key to strong minor teams at county level is spreading this talent source and not relying on Maghera. If Maghera get caught up in MacRory then it has a detrimental impact on the county minor set up.

DERRYSFINEST

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #53239 on: July 23, 2015, 02:06:55 PM »
I think the work of Chris Collins, paid underage coaches and more importantly club volunteers has been huge.

Without being arrogant Derry club underage sides are ahead of other counties in Ulster.

Apologies of my lack of knowledge at B/C grade but:

Minors - Anyone of 4/5 sides could win the champ and possibly Ulster

U16s - Bellaghy very strong but Screen and 1 or 2 others also challenging

U14s - Lavey, Rossa very strong with 3/4 other sides not far off.

This is also reflected at schools level with Maghera beginning to dominate due to the work being put in by club coaches.

The key to strong minor teams at county level is spreading this talent source and not relying on Maghera. If Maghera get caught up in MacRory then it has a detrimental impact on the county minor set up.

That's all well and good, but how much of this can be attributed to Chris Collins and the paid coaches?  I reckon it has more to do with the coaching they are getting within their own clubs, and in some cases schools.

Again, can someone tell me who they are responsible to and who sets out their tragets / goals like in any other paid jobs?

toby47

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #53240 on: July 23, 2015, 02:08:41 PM »
I think the work of Chris Collins, paid underage coaches and more importantly club volunteers has been huge.

Without being arrogant Derry club underage sides are ahead of other counties in Ulster.

Apologies of my lack of knowledge at B/C grade but:

Minors - Anyone of 4/5 sides could win the champ and possibly Ulster

U16s - Bellaghy very strong but Screen and 1 or 2 others also challenging

U14s - Lavey, Rossa very strong with 3/4 other sides not far off.

This is also reflected at schools level with Maghera beginning to dominate due to the work being put in by club coaches.

The key to strong minor teams at county level is spreading this talent source and not relying on Maghera. If Maghera get caught up in MacRory then it has a detrimental impact on the county minor set up.

What has Magherafelt and Lavey u14s being good sides got to do with Chris Collins etc?

Yes, underage teams/schools are doing great at the minute but I don't believe it has much to do with this?

Walter Cronc

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #53241 on: July 23, 2015, 03:20:54 PM »
Ok so its Chris Collins' fault our seniors got beat in Galway!!

Of course improvement is down to individuals in a club - massive work goes on right across our clubs but who has been in charge of coaching the coaches. Yes even the Enda Gormleys, Seamus Downeys and so forth have all attended courses run by Chris and his team.

It's called coach education and increased participation rates in schools due to better club/school links.

How much more activity is there from 6-12 than there was before him?

Chris has also worked with the development squads when some of our more established young coaches have chased the brown envelope in Tyrone and Antrim.

This year's minor panel were the first to go through an extensive S&C programme from U15!

DERRYSFINEST

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #53242 on: July 23, 2015, 03:28:43 PM »
Ok so its Chris Collins' fault our seniors got beat in Galway!!

Of course improvement is down to individuals in a club - massive work goes on right across our clubs but who has been in charge of coaching the coaches. Yes even the Enda Gormleys, Seamus Downeys and so forth have all attended courses run by Chris and his team.

It's called coach education and increased participation rates in schools due to better club/school links.

How much more activity is there from 6-12 than there was before him?

Chris has also worked with the development squads when some of our more established young coaches have chased the brown envelope in Tyrone and Antrim.

This year's minor panel were the first to go through an extensive S&C programme from U15!

Who said that it was?

Nobody was knocking the work he was doing. I was simply asking what it is he does, what he was responsible for, and who he was accountable to? As well as the other paid coaches.

You say he is responsible for coaching the coaches. Does this happen on a weekly, monthly or once a yearly basis?  you mention coaches chasing the brown envelope in Tyrone and Antrim, I believe Chris has also been doing this for the past few years in tyrone.

I don't want this to become personal. I am just trying to establish how well our money is being spent up in Owenbeg.  Certainly money being wasted on our full time CCC member, but that's a complete different issue.

toby47

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #53243 on: July 23, 2015, 03:45:48 PM »
What is Chris Collins exact Job title?

Also donít want to go down the road of slating but is he really the man for the job? I remember him help take a promising minor team 3/4 years back that was tipped to do well. They ended up not having scored at half time and dumped out my what was supposed to be the weakest team in the competition, Fermanagh. The team was the age group of Ciaran Mcfaul, Conor McAtamney, Gareth Mckinless, Brendan Roges, Emmett Bradley, Brian Og McGilligan etc.

All the men listed above are all now on our county senior panel, just asking the question, does a man that canít get these boys to score a single point vs one of the weakest teams in Ulster deserve to be in a paid role?

DennistheMenace

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #53244 on: July 23, 2015, 03:53:07 PM »
Lads this is getting embarrassing, if you have an issue why don't you state it to the powers that be and not on here anonymously.

toby47

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #53245 on: July 23, 2015, 03:54:26 PM »
Lads this is getting embarrassing, if you have an issue why don't you state it to the powers that be and not on here anonymously.

I highly doubt you were christened DennistheMenace

DERRYSFINEST

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #53246 on: July 23, 2015, 03:59:02 PM »
Lads this is getting embarrassing, if you have an issue why don't you state it to the powers that be and not on here anonymously.

I wasn't being personal to Chris at all and I hope it didn't come across that way.  However no one has answered any of my questions.

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #53247 on: July 23, 2015, 04:00:26 PM »
I think the work of Chris Collins, paid underage coaches and more importantly club volunteers has been huge.

Without being arrogant Derry club underage sides are ahead of other counties in Ulster.

Apologies of my lack of knowledge at B/C grade but:

Minors - Anyone of 4/5 sides could win the champ and possibly Ulster

U16s - Bellaghy very strong but Screen and 1 or 2 others also challenging

U14s - Lavey, Rossa very strong with 3/4 other sides not far off.

This is also reflected at schools level with Maghera beginning to dominate due to the work being put in by club coaches.

The key to strong minor teams at county level is spreading this talent source and not relying on Maghera. If Maghera get caught up in MacRory then it has a detrimental impact on the county minor set up.

That's all well and good, but how much of this can be attributed to Chris Collins and the paid coaches?  I reckon it has more to do with the coaching they are getting within their own clubs, and in some cases schools.

Again, can someone tell me who they are responsible to and who sets out their tragets / goals like in any other paid jobs?
I'd be asking the same question of our games administrator before asking about anyone else!

The Stallion

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #53248 on: July 23, 2015, 04:28:02 PM »
This is an Internet discussion board and criticism or praise of anyone's abilities as a manager, player or coach is perfectly legitimate. The clowns prattling on about anonymity and 'say it to their faces' need to catch a grip. Personally I have always used my own name but each to their own.

Theodore Stallion signing off.

JoG2

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Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
« Reply #53249 on: July 23, 2015, 05:03:34 PM »
This is an Internet discussion board and criticism or praise of anyone's abilities as a manager, player or coach is perfectly legitimate. The clowns prattling on about anonymity and 'say it to their faces' need to catch a grip. Personally I have always used my own name but each to their own.

Theodore Stallion signing off.

I'd disagree.

It takes a certain kind of spanner to constantly mouth at players / management on here wrapped in a safety blanket of anonymity