Margaret Thatcher....

[Rossfan]

lads - what about all those questions I been asking? Not a wee not embarrassed by the lack of answers?

You may not like the answers I provide but I do at least have the decency to engage in the dialogue and defend my position.

any questions have been answered.

funnily enough, you dont seem to like the answes you are getting either - running away from them or attempting to deflect by claiming 'typo' !
unless you figure out what democracy actually is, there is no point in you pretending you are engaging in any actual debate.

you will find out soon enough though, that unlike your community and their behaviour in the apartheidesque days of the 6 county abhoration, the reunited Ireland will be an easy place to live in for you folks - far from the picture you seem to have in your minds.
just the problems of normal society to contend with - once you lose the chip on your shoulder and the notion of looking to take offence.

My questions have been answered? Where?

An international border is redrawn to reflect majority different views either end of the new border gets labelled here a "false political entity". The inference is that the former Yugoslav republics are to be abolished. I ask must Yugoslavia be re-united against the democratic wishes of its people(s)? Point out the answer please.

NI has been labelled a "gerrymandered state". I have asked is the problem the precise line of the border? Who has answered this?

Some seem to favour a redrawing of the border - who is leading the political campaign for this? Would SF accept a re-drawing of the border? No answer.

Would the people in border areas of the 6 counties who voted Yes for a united Ireland in a future referendum be happy for their votes to be used to re-draw the border but not achieve a united Ireland?

What was Britain to do in the face of a vocal majority pre-partition? What are they do now with a pro-union majority? How would these proposals have played out internationally? How would it play out today? Can there ever be a United Ireland that does not have majority support north and south? Surely these are fundamental questions. I have asked them Who has answered them?

I asked two different posters if they would respect a vote by a majority in the 6 countes to stay in UK? No answers.
I asked why nobody was out in front of the cameras defending that particular political stance? No answer.

When was there last a political will in RoI to unify the island in circumstances other than in the presence of a majority in favour in NI? Question asked but not answered.

A smaller NI could have been created at the outset - who pushed for it? No answer.

On the point of violence and murder who has pointed out the achievement of Repulicans in respect of the border? Which violent acts/murders were worth it? Who has been able to justify the republican terror campaign?

Which acts of violence/murder relieved the oppression of Catholics?

Which IRA acts achieved their stated goal? (plenty to chose from)

Were the acts of violence/murder ever going to achieve a British withdrawal? How would that have played out internationally? No answers.

What good does murder motivated by retaliation do? Can retaliation be used to justify murder? No answers?

A poster indicated that because peaceful protest did not achieve its goals immediately that that was evidence enough cease operating on peaceful means and starting a campaign of terror. I asked the poster whether the campaign of violence achieved its goals immediately? No reply.

Who has pointed out the Irish ruler who has ruled the entire Island?

In the absence of this where does the obviousness of the united island come from?

I was accused of denying protestant misrule/discrimination and of defending both crimes. I asked for the refernces that form the basis of this accusation. No answers.

A poster claimed that the IRA committed acts of violence and murder to STOP unionist/loyalist violence. I asked for peer reviewed works that detail and endorses this strategy. No answers.

I asked how phoning a firm of taxis and shooting the driver, walking into a protestant owned shop and shooting someone behind the counter or planting a bomb in the centre of a majority protestant town not be considered targeting? No answer.
I asked whether broad brush targeting made acts more justifable? No answers.

So you ARE Evil Genius 

[Oraisteach]

LC, you yourself hit the nail on the head in your second response to Eamonn1's post.  You write, "I am reacting by pointing out that if they want it and vote fro it in sufficint numbers they can have it."  In that statement, you are upholding the primacy of the democratic will of the people, a will that was torpedoed not by a "vocal majority" but by a vocal armed-to-the teeth minority, in an act of terror to which the British government acquiesced.

As for the IRA, I repudiate their methods but at the same time acknowledge the virtual certainty of their formation in the face of state violence against perfectly reasonable civil rights demands, in the face of a violent and sectarian police force, and in the face of the unrestrained violence of loyalist terror gangs.  I can't endorse the IRA, but for a while they offered protection to a beleaguered Catholic population experiencing the membership benefits of belonging to that democratic entity that you seem to admire.

[michaelg]

lads - what about all those questions I been asking? Not a wee not embarrassed by the lack of answers?

You may not like the answers I provide but I do at least have the decency to engage in the dialogue and defend my position.

any questions have been answered.

funnily enough, you dont seem to like the answes you are getting either - running away from them or attempting to deflect by claiming 'typo' !
unless you figure out what democracy actually is, there is no point in you pretending you are engaging in any actual debate.

you will find out soon enough though, that unlike your community and their behaviour in the apartheidesque days of the 6 county abhoration, the reunited Ireland will be an easy place to live in for you folks - far from the picture you seem to have in your minds.
just the problems of normal society to contend with - once you lose the chip on your shoulder and the notion of looking to take offence.

I think it may it has been discussed on this board before, but what happened to the Protestant minority in the 26 counties?  Did they get a fair crack of the whip and why did their % make-up of the population fall so dramatically in a relatively short space of time?
As for your comment about chips on shoulder and looking to take offence, surely you would concede that this is not a one way street.

[Eamonnca1]

what happened to the Protestant minority in the 26 counties? 

Doing well last I heard. Over-represented in the professions and business community.  A damn sight better than our crowd did in the north post partition.

why did their % make-up of the population fall so dramatically in a relatively short space of time?

I'm just guessing here but maybe they had a homeland that they could migrate to in which they'd be guaranteed a job on account of their religion.

[Eamonnca1]

But this business that you're talking about of repartition and gerrymandering the border a second time to placate the "we have a right to be in charge because we're pradistints" crowd?  Get that out of your head right now.

I'm not the one arguring for this. Others are raising it, I am reacting by pointing out that if they want it and vote fro it in sufficint numbers they can have it.

You say you're not arguing for it and then you turn around and say you'd support it, which is not respecting democracy. You can't go on rigging electoral boundaries until you're in the majority. If you lose a vote, you suck it up. That's what your crowd spent 50 years sanctimoniously lecturing us about.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

I think it may it has been discussed on this board before, but what happened to the Protestant minority in the 26 counties?  Did they get a fair crack of the whip and why did their % make-up of the population fall so dramatically in a relatively short space of time?
As for your comment about chips on shoulder and looking to take offence, surely you would concede that this is not a one way street.

They saw the great (preferential) deal their co-religionists were getting on the other side of the border and made the move. Only very slightly flippant in that answer - it was definitely a significant factor.

[Main Street]

I think it may it has been discussed on this board before, but what happened to the Protestant minority in the 26 counties?  Did they get a fair crack of the whip and why did their % make-up of the population fall so dramatically in a relatively short space of time?
As for your comment about chips on shoulder and looking to take offence, surely you would concede that this is not a one way street.

They saw the great (preferential) deal their co-religionists were getting on the other side of the border and made the move. Only very slightly flippant in that answer - it was definitely a significant factor.

This issue of the dwindling protestant numbers in the 26 counties was discussed on another thread at another time.
The dwindling numbers of protestants in the 26 counties and the related timeline, was about the same as the dwindling number of protestants in England.
Outside the NI statelet, protestant faith numbers in the 26co just declined naturally, in the same way and at the same rate as they declined in England.

[michaelg]

I think it may it has been discussed on this board before, but what happened to the Protestant minority in the 26 counties?  Did they get a fair crack of the whip and why did their % make-up of the population fall so dramatically in a relatively short space of time?
As for your comment about chips on shoulder and looking to take offence, surely you would concede that this is not a one way street.

They saw the great (preferential) deal their co-religionists were getting on the other side of the border and made the move. Only very slightly flippant in that answer - it was definitely a significant factor.

What sort of numbers moved North?

[camanchero]

lads - what about all those questions I been asking? Not a wee not embarrassed by the lack of answers?

You may not like the answers I provide but I do at least have the decency to engage in the dialogue and defend my position.

any questions have been answered.

funnily enough, you dont seem to like the answes you are getting either - running away from them or attempting to deflect by claiming 'typo' !
unless you figure out what democracy actually is, there is no point in you pretending you are engaging in any actual debate.

you will find out soon enough though, that unlike your community and their behaviour in the apartheidesque days of the 6 county abhoration, the reunited Ireland will be an easy place to live in for you folks - far from the picture you seem to have in your minds.
just the problems of normal society to contend with - once you lose the chip on your shoulder and the notion of looking to take offence.

My questions have been answered? Where?

An international border is redrawn to reflect majority different views either end of the new border gets labelled here a "false political entity". The inference is that the former Yugoslav republics are to be abolished. I ask must Yugoslavia be re-united against the democratic wishes of its people(s)? Point out the answer please.

NI has been labelled a "gerrymandered state". I have asked is the problem the precise line of the border? Who has answered this?

Some seem to favour a redrawing of the border - who is leading the political campaign for this? Would SF accept a re-drawing of the border? No answer.

Would the people in border areas of the 6 counties who voted Yes for a united Ireland in a future referendum be happy for their votes to be used to re-draw the border but not achieve a united Ireland?

What was Britain to do in the face of a vocal majority pre-partition? What are they do now with a pro-union majority? How would these proposals have played out internationally? How would it play out today? Can there ever be a United Ireland that does not have majority support north and south? Surely these are fundamental questions. I have asked them Who has answered them?

I asked two different posters if they would respect a vote by a majority in the 6 countes to stay in UK? No answers.
I asked why nobody was out in front of the cameras defending that particular political stance? No answer.

When was there last a political will in RoI to unify the island in circumstances other than in the presence of a majority in favour in NI? Question asked but not answered.

A smaller NI could have been created at the outset - who pushed for it? No answer.

On the point of violence and murder who has pointed out the achievement of Repulicans in respect of the border? Which violent acts/murders were worth it? Who has been able to justify the republican terror campaign?

Which acts of violence/murder relieved the oppression of Catholics?

Which IRA acts achieved their stated goal? (plenty to chose from)

Were the acts of violence/murder ever going to achieve a British withdrawal? How would that have played out internationally? No answers.

What good does murder motivated by retaliation do? Can retaliation be used to justify murder? No answers?

A poster indicated that because peaceful protest did not achieve its goals immediately that that was evidence enough cease operating on peaceful means and starting a campaign of terror. I asked the poster whether the campaign of violence achieved its goals immediately? No reply.

Who has pointed out the Irish ruler who has ruled the entire Island?

In the absence of this where does the obviousness of the united island come from?

I was accused of denying protestant misrule/discrimination and of defending both crimes. I asked for the refernces that form the basis of this accusation. No answers.

A poster claimed that the IRA committed acts of violence and murder to STOP unionist/loyalist violence. I asked for peer reviewed works that detail and endorses this strategy. No answers.

I asked how phoning a firm of taxis and shooting the driver, walking into a protestant owned shop and shooting someone behind the counter or planting a bomb in the centre of a majority protestant town not be considered targeting? No answer.
I asked whether broad brush targeting made acts more justifable? No answers.

Yep the majority of those have been dealt with or discussed on the thread I believe, if not in direct answer to your posts.
Others are non questions - such as the drawing up of/re-drawing of the border, only you seem keen on this.

[Rossfan]

what happened to the Protestant minority in the 26 counties?  Did they get a fair crack of the whip and why did their % make-up of the population fall so dramatically in a relatively short space of time?

Protestant minority still around here the last time I looked.
Round here it declined because a lot of them were "big house" types and that model of farming became totally unsustainable so they sold up to the Land Commission usually and took off.( French/De Freyne, Stafford King Harman, Pakenham Mahons and other not so big houses).
Those who had smaller farms are still around in most cases today in North Ros, on the Ros Sligo border and in parts of Leitrim e.g Mohill area.
More left after the Treaty because they had been too loyal to the previous Government and went off to live under their jurisdiction.
The Catholic Churches "Ne Temere" degree meant that in a lot of mixed marriages the children were brought up Catholic.

And Michaelg for your info - in at least 2 large well known Companies ( and I suspect many more) no Catholic used to get above a certain ceiling. ( Guinness and Mattersons peas in Limerick are 2 I'm aware of).
Thank God that sort of thing died out with the older generation in the late 50s/60s and now except for going to different Churches( for those that go to any) we all consider ourselves the same in these parts.

[Canalman]

% of Protestants in the 26 counties fell dramatically in the 50 or so years before 1922 which obviously doesn't get much of a mention. Post 1922 alot of the British army / civil servants and their families went back to Britian  thereby reducing the % further.

Quiet a few moved up north and the rest imvho did very well in the Free State.

For all our faults down here I don't think that the Protestants were treated badly and to be fair to them they have never really claimed they were.

[deiseach]

michaelg, if you have some theory as to what happened to all the Protestants south of the Border post-partition, please let us know. We've already had Eunan O'Halpin taking a JCB to a field in Laois looking for the bodies of men who he was certain had been 'disappeared' only to find out afterwards that they had survived long past the Troubles. Remember: Google is your friend.

[Main Street]

% of Protestants in the 26 counties fell dramatically in the 50 or so years before 1922 which obviously doesn't get much of a mention. Post 1922 alot of the British army / civil servants and their families went back to Britian  thereby reducing the % further.

Quiet a few moved up north and the rest imvho did very well in the Free State.

For all our faults down here I don't think that the Protestants were treated badly and to be fair to them they have never really claimed they were.

Did the protestants who lost the faith in England, in the same numbers as they did Ireland, complain of how badly they were treated by the state?

[LeoMc]

michaelg, if you have some theory as to what happened to all the Protestants south of the Border post-partition, please let us know. We've already had Eunan O'Halpin taking a JCB to a field in Laois looking for the bodies of men who he was certain had been 'disappeared' only to find out afterwards that they had survived long past the Troubles. Remember: Google is your friend.

Was some one not using Martin Corrys claims as a bit of a stick to beat FF with not that long ago?

[LCohen]

So you ARE Evil Genius 

Being new to this forum it was only today that I read the work of "Evil Genius" on the "1981 Remembered" thread.

I guess he was there only to wind folk up. Is he still going on other threads?