Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[Evil Genius]

Brentford built their 17,500 stadium for 70 million in 2020.

Sorry should say finished 2020. Started 2017. The more I look at it the worse this becomes. Imagine how far the 100 million would have went back in 2011 when Ulster GAA first made a balls of this.

Actually I believe the GTech cost £82m, but that also included the cost of purchasing the site, which in West London certainly didn't come cheap.

And although built on a very small triangular site, crammed in between three railway lines, they originally planned for the maximum capacity of 20k seats, before they realised that by putting in extra hospitality and corporate facilities etc, that would generate greater revenues even with losing 2.5k seats.

They also originally planned to have conferencing and business facilities for usage outside of match days, until they realised that as a football club, they didn't have the expertise to operate that kind of business, especially since London is/was already over-provided for with competing venues, all the more so since Covid/wfh etc.

All of which was an object lesson in planning and operating within their own capabilities and resources, so as to "cut their cloth" accordingly.   

[armaghniac]

As for concerts etc, the money is/was allocated specifically for sporting purposes, not other entertainment uses. On which point, why should the GAA, or any other publicly funded body, be permitted to use sports money to compete with other concert venues, whether Council owned or privately owned? At the very least, any non-sporting profits accrued should in principle go back to Stormont. Or do eg Garth Brooks gigs count as part of all our true Gaelic heritage?

concerts support the costs of operation of the sporting facility. Which other 30,000 seater venues would suffer from competition?

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

How did so many Sinn Féin & SDLP people get tickets to yesterday's game? Many of whom wouldn't dream of darkening the door of an Antrim game normally.
A total pantomime.

[twohands!!!]

As for concerts etc, the money is/was allocated specifically for sporting purposes, not other entertainment uses. On which point, why should the GAA, or any other publicly funded body, be permitted to use sports money to compete with other concert venues, whether Council owned or privately owned? At the very least, any non-sporting profits accrued should in principle go back to Stormont. Or do eg Garth Brooks gigs count as part of all our true Gaelic heritage?

concerts support the costs of operation of the sporting facility. Which other 30,000 seater venues would suffer from competition?

In relation to concerts in Casement, the issue is 1) Casement is limited to 3 concerts/big non GAA events per year [same as Puc] 2) Pairc Ui Chaoimh's struggle in attracting concerts - the Cork County Board came out and said a 40k stadium was too small for the biggest artists and too big for the majority of artists. The fact that they were only able to use 1 out of their 9 concerts slots in the last 3 years should make it clear to everyone that it's not as easy as just saying have concerts, especially when the Cork County Board have come out and said the only way that they can use PuC to reduce their debt is to hold concerts.

No financial plan for Casement can include possible concert revenue as any sort of reliable income
Any potential concert income from Casement has to be regarded as a nice bonus if a concert happens, but can't be relied upon in any way dependable in any financial forecast.

[flowerpot]

How did so many Sinn Féin & SDLP people get tickets to yesterday's game? Many of whom wouldn't dream of darkening the door of an Antrim game normally.
A total pantomime.

That's for all their support in getting the casement build over the line.  Maybe Gerry is a season ticket holder!

[Evil Genius]

concerts support the costs of operation of the sporting facility. Which other 30,000 seater venues would suffer from competition?

Boucher Road accommodated 40k for Bruce Springsteen last summer, while both Ormeau and Botanic Parks have accommodated 5-figure crowds (unsure exactly how many?). And on the basis that fans will travel to see their favourites, Ward Park in Bangor has hosted over 30k (eg Snow Patrol), while there must be a limit on how many acts are guaranteed to draw such crowds to NI each year.

My point being that this money was purely allocated for sporting purposes. If a sports venue needs non-sporting* activities to be viable, then you have to question the funding/use of resources.

While also questioning what would amount to an unfair subsidy for one venue over those other venues, whether privately or Council operated.

* - And no-one seems willing to address my earlier point that by the GAA's own projections, it is only ever expected to sell out a 34k capacity Casement for ONE sporting event per year. (And that's if Casement always gets selected for the Ulster Senior Final)

[johnnycool]

concerts support the costs of operation of the sporting facility. Which other 30,000 seater venues would suffer from competition?

Boucher Road accommodated 40k for Bruce Springsteen last summer, while both Ormeau and Botanic Parks have accommodated 5-figure crowds (unsure exactly how many?). And on the basis that fans will travel to see their favourites, Ward Park in Bangor has hosted over 30k (eg Snow Patrol), while there must be a limit on how many acts are guaranteed to draw such crowds to NI each year.

My point being that this money was purely allocated for sporting purposes. If a sports venue needs non-sporting* activities to be viable, then you have to question the funding/use of resources.

While also questioning what would amount to an unfair subsidy for one venue over those other venues, whether privately or Council operated.

* - And no-one seems willing to address my earlier point that by the GAA's own projections, it is only ever expected to sell out a 34k capacity Casement for ONE sporting event per year. (And that's if Casement always gets selected for the Ulster Senior Final)

You can generate more revenue if you offer a better experience to the more discernible clientele rather than standing in a field, with gutters to the eyeballs.

Doesn't hold Glastonbury back though

[marty34]

I see Enniskillen Leisure Centre could cost £18 million more than initially planned.

In building projects like Casement Park etc. how does this happen?

[flowerpot]

Because planning in this part of the world is a joke and by the time something is passed years could have rolled by and materials, labour etc have sky rocketed!

[Pub Bore]

Because planning in this part of the world is a joke and by the time something is passed years could have rolled by and materials, labour etc have sky rocketed!

Correct.  When planning permission for the Craigavon SRC Campus was quashed in 2022, the Court of Appeal judges basically said that planning regulations in NI were impossible to understand. 

[GTP]

While also questioning what would amount to an unfair subsidy for one venue over those other venues, whether privately or Council operated

I'm not sure how you could have an unfair subsidy in comparison to a Council owned venue which is funded through local taxes. Concerts held at these venues are perhaps more likely to have a competitive advantage as local authorities can argue that the wider economic benefits of an event mean the use of a venue is viable when a private operator may not.
Casement was not built because NI doesn't work for which everyone is too blame.

[marty34]

Councils should be making more GAA pitches available across the north.

Hundreds of soccer pitches in comparsion - all maintained by councils I presume?

[imtommygunn]

While also questioning what would amount to an unfair subsidy for one venue over those other venues, whether privately or Council operated

I'm not sure how you could have an unfair subsidy in comparison to a Council owned venue which is funded through local taxes. Concerts held at these venues are perhaps more likely to have a competitive advantage as local authorities can argue that the wider economic benefits of an event mean the use of a venue is viable when a private operator may not.
Casement was not built because NI doesn't work for which everyone is too blame.

i think it's very easy to say that but the ulster council have made a mess of this. Serious questions should be asked of them but it has been turned into a political football. It doesn't need to have been but your NI doesn't work comment is part of the issue there too.

[GTP]

One of the reasons NI doesn't work is because we politicise everything. Casement's funding was part of a package splitting money for perceived green and orange sports projects - Rugby can be on the fence if it wants. When Windsor Park and Ravenhill got upgraded there was no downside to anyone who wanted to complain about Casement funding as their part of the bargain had already been delivered. It then became something for certain parts of Unionism to whinge about for their own political purposes.
Ulster Council may have started it with an overly ambitious plan, but the failures spiralled and continue for reasons beyond their control.
The Lisanelly / Strule shared campus in Omagh, which is I think relatively non-contentious, was started 2013 still not finished and very far from being on budget. It doesn't get anything like the same attention as no one can blame the other side for failings or say they benefit too much. But it does show a certain inability to get stuff done properly.

Hopefully in the near future the GAA will know how much money is available and build an appropriate stadium for the needs of the association and we can all attend an Ulster final in Belfast then complain about the parking.

[flowerpot]

An Ulster final in Belfast - there could be hovercars before then and you wouldn't need to worry about the parking, just stack them in the sky!