Author Topic: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.  (Read 244304 times)

trileacman

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Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #2580 on: March 02, 2017, 10:44:47 PM »
Casual observation. Quite a few w**kers standing outside polling stations today, handing out propaganda.
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Minder

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Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #2581 on: March 02, 2017, 11:21:44 PM »
Casual observation. Quite a few "Gaels for Casement" standing outside polling stations today, handing out Sinn Fein propaganda.

Yeah as I have said on this thread before, it's just a SF pressure group
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Milltown Row2

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Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #2582 on: March 03, 2017, 07:33:52 AM »
Casual observation. Quite a few "Gaels for Casement" standing outside polling stations today, handing out Sinn Fein propaganda.

Did that change your voting preferences??
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Hectic

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Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #2583 on: March 03, 2017, 07:46:29 AM »
Would it not be the case if Donegal were drew at home to play Dublin the match would be in Donegal either Ballybofey or Letterkenny...Why would they give up home advantage, that doesn't make sense (no matter about the extra money a neutral venue would bring)

If you read my post Illdecide you'll see that I hypothetically suggested the Ulster Council might want it in Casement. Of course Donegal wouldn't want to give up home advantage!

Aye i know...FFS i'd bring the Dubs to Muff (Or i suppose Malin is further but doesn't sound as good)

a trip to Muff is always a good option

Send the Dubs to Muff and they would end up in Killybegs!


Owen Brannigan

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Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #2585 on: May 12, 2017, 09:04:25 AM »
Parking is the issue for Casement.

I was at Balmoral Show yesterday evening and the area given over to car parking at the Maze is incredible, really enormous, and the traffic management in getting cars out of the area was very good.  It made me wonder how all that traffic was managed at the Kings Hall.

Around Casement the parking is at best cramped, at worst precarious and a proper nuisance for the residents. Traffic management is very poor with queues on the motorway to get into the cramped area for parking with junctions, roundabouts and traffic lights to slow down traffic moving in or out.

Having been to the Balmoral Show site for the first time, it was a major mistake not to avail of the offer to have a stadium away from the city but with its own facilities.  Casement is just a sop to the Shinners to get Windsor Park and Ravenhill renovated quickly.  BTW both are now finished and built to levels that ensure they can operate as often as possible with full capacity.

Figures have been released this week to show the attendances at Pro 12 rugby and it clearly shows the effect of the new stadium at Ravenhill on improving attendances in the relatively small stadium instead of the nonsense of a large stadium like Casement in a residential area instead of a large green or brown field site for proper parking and facilities.  Note how Munster rugby built a 28,000 seater and how small their average crowd size every 2 weeks in the season.  Casement will rarely be filled and most often will run at a loss with at most one third capacity.

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BTW residents should make themselves ready for move of the music events from Boucher fields and Ormeau park to the planned stadium.

JPGJOHNNYG

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Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #2586 on: May 12, 2017, 10:56:40 AM »
Parking is the issue for Casement.

I was at Balmoral Show yesterday evening and the area given over to car parking at the Maze is incredible, really enormous, and the traffic management in getting cars out of the area was very good.  It made me wonder how all that traffic was managed at the Kings Hall.

Around Casement the parking is at best cramped, at worst precarious and a proper nuisance for the residents. Traffic management is very poor with queues on the motorway to get into the cramped area for parking with junctions, roundabouts and traffic lights to slow down traffic moving in or out.

Having been to the Balmoral Show site for the first time, it was a major mistake not to avail of the offer to have a stadium away from the city but with its own facilities.  Casement is just a sop to the Shinners to get Windsor Park and Ravenhill renovated quickly.  BTW both are now finished and built to levels that ensure they can operate as often as possible with full capacity.

Figures have been released this week to show the attendances at Pro 12 rugby and it clearly shows the effect of the new stadium at Ravenhill on improving attendances in the relatively small stadium instead of the nonsense of a large stadium like Casement in a residential area instead of a large green or brown field site for proper parking and facilities.  Note how Munster rugby built a 28,000 seater and how small their average crowd size every 2 weeks in the season.  Casement will rarely be filled and most often will run at a loss with at most one third capacity.

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BTW residents should make themselves ready for move of the music events from Boucher fields and Ormeau park to the planned stadium.

You do realise Munster play a lot of their games at Musgrave park Cork with a capacity of 9000.
The anti casement crowd one minute argue that it will rarely be used and will never be filled, next minute they argue that 40000 people will be there every week causing traffic chaos with dozens of concerts every year upsetting everyone. So could someone please tell me will it busy or not you cant argue for both at the same time.

twohands!!!

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Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #2587 on: May 12, 2017, 04:46:39 PM »

You do realise Munster play a lot of their games at Musgrave park Cork with a capacity of 9000.

Munster have played 10 games in Musgrave Park over the last 3 seasons - hardly a lot.

JPGJOHNNYG

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Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #2588 on: May 12, 2017, 05:24:16 PM »

You do realise Munster play a lot of their games at Musgrave park Cork with a capacity of 9000.

Munster have played 10 games in Musgrave Park over the last 3 seasons - hardly a lot.

10 out of 33 home games is certainly significant if you are talking about capacities seeing as musgrave is 16000 lower than Thomond

Owen Brannigan

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Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #2589 on: May 12, 2017, 07:38:26 PM »

You do realise Munster play a lot of their games at Musgrave park Cork with a capacity of 9000.

Munster have played 10 games in Musgrave Park over the last 3 seasons - hardly a lot.

10 out of 33 home games is certainly significant if you are talking about capacities seeing as musgrave is 16000 lower than Thomond

That reinforces my point.  For a third of Munster's games, Thomond Park, a 28,000 seater, was empty.  Even Musgrave Park wasn't filled on the occasions on which it was used. (The figures also show the myth of the massive support for Munster when for the last four seasons they have had lower average attendances than Ulster.) 

I made the point about the small numbers attending the majority of games for a major stadium costing the N.Ireland public at least £80m and complained about the traffic issues on the few occasions in the year when the stadium might reach full capacity.  Both are legitimate arguments in relation to Casement Park and the nonsense of both GAA and Assembly playing to the SF tune by spending £80m on a white elephant on the Andersontown Road instead of going for an imaginative solution of having a mini Croke Park somewhere else in N.Ireland to really meet the needs of GAA supporters in all 9 counties of Ulster.

BTW SF should have supported the Maze project for the GAA stadium as it would have formed the infrastructure for their plan for a peace and reconciliation museum at the prison.

Rossfan

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Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #2590 on: May 12, 2017, 09:51:04 PM »
I thought SF were in favour if the Long Kesh thing but intransigent Unionists blocked it???
Then the 3 stadIan upgrades was the compromise.
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Owen Brannigan

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Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #2591 on: May 12, 2017, 10:15:41 PM »
I thought SF were in favour if the Long Kesh thing but intransigent Unionists blocked it???
Then the 3 stadIan upgrades was the compromise.

It was the three sporting organisations that wanted their own separate stadia that ended the single stadium but if SF had the vision to see how a GAA stadium alongside the RUAS site could have created all of the infrastructure needed for its proposed museum to include a H block from the prison.  The McGuinness and Robinson fell out about the museum/centre. DUP vetoed the museum/centre and SF vetoed the expenditure to build a proper motorway connection for the site to spite the users of the RUAS site and now the two helicopter ambulances based at the Maze site.

Evil Genius

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Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #2592 on: June 06, 2017, 01:50:12 AM »
I thought SF were in favour if the Long Kesh thing but intransigent Unionists blocked it???
Then the 3 stadIan upgrades was the compromise.

It was the three sporting organisations that wanted their own separate stadia that ended the single stadium but if SF had the vision to see how a GAA stadium alongside the RUAS site could have created all of the infrastructure needed for its proposed museum to include a H block from the prison.  The McGuinness and Robinson fell out about the museum/centre. DUP vetoed the museum/centre and SF vetoed the expenditure to build a proper motorway connection for the site to spite the users of the RUAS site and now the two helicopter ambulances based at the Maze site.
This is incorrect.

Both UR and the IFA agreed to migrate to the Maze - the then IFA CEO, Howard Wells, confirmed as such in a letter to the Sports Minister, Edwin Poots, in 2007:
"May I reiterate the IFA's position. On 20 January 2006 we made a commitment to work with central government to deliver a new multi-purpose stadium on the site of the Maze with certain caveats - that the business plan proved viable; that the planned infrastructure at the site was conducive to promoting sport; that government would commit to maintaining Windsor Park at viable levels in the interim and that the Licence Agreement between the IFA and Linfield FC could be resolved."
He went on:
"So, further procrastination has the potential to lead us nowhere other than down a blind alley. There appears to be no commitment from the public or private sectors to fund a Belfast located stadium in the foreseeable future, or to pay for the refit of Windsor Park. It is unlikely that any Belfast driven initiative will sit well with the concept of a shared future. The IFA is very keen to work with the other two sports to drive change and to market sport across all the sections of the community."
And:
"Thirteen of the sixteen senior clubs are totally supportive of a stadium being built at the Maze. It is within an hour of almost all destinations in Northern Ireland. The MORI poll commissioned by the IFA in 2005 suggested that there was support for a new stadium at the Maze and from families and females who currently do not attend."

Now Wells was certainly a politician (small "p"), and such a view was unpopular with NI football fans. Nonetheless, this was the IFA's official position right up until the project was canned.

And further, the stadium was canned not due to "Unionist intransigence" (though there were disputes over issues like the Museum etc); rather it was entirely due to DCAL's civil servants concluding that the business case for a Maze stadium did not add up, therefore public money could/should not be spent for this purpose.

Instead, it was agreed to split the money up between the three bodies to spend on individual stadia in Belfast. UR appears to be happy with the revamped Ravenhill and the IFA, organisation and fans, are happy with the rebuilt Windsor (even if some now feel its capacity is too small).

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Farrandeelin

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Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #2593 on: June 06, 2017, 07:05:56 AM »
Ah Evil Genius, welcome back.
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snatter

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Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #2594 on: June 19, 2017, 06:59:29 PM »
I thought SF were in favour if the Long Kesh thing but intransigent Unionists blocked it???
Then the 3 stadIan upgrades was the compromise.

It was the three sporting organisations that wanted their own separate stadia that ended the single stadium but if SF had the vision to see how a GAA stadium alongside the RUAS site could have created all of the infrastructure needed for its proposed museum to include a H block from the prison.  The McGuinness and Robinson fell out about the museum/centre. DUP vetoed the museum/centre and SF vetoed the expenditure to build a proper motorway connection for the site to spite the users of the RUAS site and now the two helicopter ambulances based at the Maze site.
This is incorrect.

Both UR and the IFA agreed to migrate to the Maze - the then IFA CEO, Howard Wells, confirmed as such in a letter to the Sports Minister, Edwin Poots, in 2007:
"May I reiterate the IFA's position. On 20 January 2006 we made a commitment to work with central government to deliver a new multi-purpose stadium on the site of the Maze with certain caveats - that the business plan proved viable; that the planned infrastructure at the site was conducive to promoting sport; that government would commit to maintaining Windsor Park at viable levels in the interim and that the Licence Agreement between the IFA and Linfield FC could be resolved."
He went on:
"So, further procrastination has the potential to lead us nowhere other than down a blind alley. There appears to be no commitment from the public or private sectors to fund a Belfast located stadium in the foreseeable future, or to pay for the refit of Windsor Park. It is unlikely that any Belfast driven initiative will sit well with the concept of a shared future. The IFA is very keen to work with the other two sports to drive change and to market sport across all the sections of the community."
And:
"Thirteen of the sixteen senior clubs are totally supportive of a stadium being built at the Maze. It is within an hour of almost all destinations in Northern Ireland. The MORI poll commissioned by the IFA in 2005 suggested that there was support for a new stadium at the Maze and from families and females who currently do not attend."

Now Wells was certainly a politician (small "p"), and such a view was unpopular with NI football fans. Nonetheless, this was the IFA's official position right up until the project was canned.

And further, the stadium was canned not due to "Unionist intransigence" (though there were disputes over issues like the Museum etc); rather it was entirely due to DCAL's civil servants concluding that the business case for a Maze stadium did not add up, therefore public money could/should not be spent for this purpose.

Instead, it was agreed to split the money up between the three bodies to spend on individual stadia in Belfast. UR appears to be happy with the revamped Ravenhill and the IFA, organisation and fans, are happy with the rebuilt Windsor (even if some now feel its capacity is too small).

Complete c0ck. A lame attempt to rewrite history.
 
The truth is simple. And the simple truth is that the Maze shared stadium was torpedoed by Unionist opposition. The three sports bodies had agreed to a share a single stadium, but it was grassroots pressure on the DUP from the likes of the NI Supporters and EvilGenius that led the DUP to scupper the plans. The fear of playing NI games in a half empty bowl haunted them.

Here's a refresher from The Guardian, summarises it perfectly:

Minister to bar national sports stadium at Maze

· Unionists opposed £140m scheme at former prison
· Decision is blow to SDLP and Sinn Féin

A plan to build a £140m national sports stadium on the site of the Maze prison in Northern Ireland is to be abandoned amid opposition from unionists.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/may/02/northernireland.northernirelandfootballteam