Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[6th sam]

Gordon Lyons has held the position for how long?
Sinn Féin held the same position for how many years during the Casement process? How far did they move the project?
But the DUP......

I genuinely hate referring to the unionist community and nationalist community, as that's part of the problem. In our work and daily lives the 2 community mindset plays no part for most of us. People want the same quality of life, employment financial security, health , education , infrastructure, no matter where they're from. In reality there is only 1 society here and viewing it as 2 communities has stifled development .    The stadium fiasco is a good example of this. An economically viable stadium for concerts and all sports didn't happen , so rugby and soccer ploughed ahead , and the concert, largest crowd stadium was chosen for the GAA.
The GAA with external support were ambitious to meet those needs, and thought they'd plough ahead as well, but ~15 years ago , got it wrong around community engagement and planning . The IFA were actually pulled over the coals around their governance around the same time, but thankfully they were allowed to move on without begrudgery snd  animosity from "nationalist " politicians .
From the time that casement was muted 4 major recreation projects have been developed in "unionist" areas : titanic , ravenhill, Windsor , and the ice bowl . To my knowledge there was nothing but support from nationalist politicians and community for these projects. In fact Ravenhill was developed bordering what has probably become a nationalist area of South Belfast and the goodwill of the nationalist community and politicians towards ravenhill is excellent.
Everybody across the whole community is delighted to see these recreational projects proceed.
However with casement , much of unionist politicians and community continue to be begrudging . The fact that this begrudgery is mirrored around Irish language tells its own story. That begrudgery is allowed to persist if it's unchallenged because some "nationalists" put party political rivalry before community development.
It is clear that there is sectarian motivation in giving casement and Irish language , a bad rep , and questioning finance , when money has been spent elsewhere .
This financial argument persists even though We are literally getting a handout from ROI, , and such a stadium/concert venue must be income generating
Let's get up of our knees , and all get behind the marquee stadium/venue this region needs. Ask Croke Park if you doubt that a well designed venue can't generate considerable income and esteem

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

Why did you quote my post?
Your reply bears zero relevance to it.

[6th sam]

Why did you quote my post?
Your reply bears zero relevance to it.

Apologies, Perhaps I need to explain more simply for you  .
SF and others didn't cover themselves in glory in this project , but what is clear is that their partners in government , the DUp have never shown enthusiasm for what should be a marquee project for this region, which could attract significant "external" funding from UK government to add to an incredible freebie from the ROI. And give us the only realistic option for a large stadium/concert venue to match mist other regions in Europe. This negativity happens to be matched by similar approach from much of unionism for Irish language projects or indeed the A5.  In the same timeframe SF and other nationalists parties were happy to champion 4 other projects in unionist areas, and rightly so. They didn't undermine the Titanic project despite the sectarian ignominy of the shipyards. Nor Windsor despite Sectarian history , or ravenhill or ice bowl despite that being for minority sports. But the DUP remain begrudging to the GAA and Gordon Lyons is the latest incarnation of that. Get the boot into SF if you wish but your opinion would have far more credibility if you called out the DUP's persistent anti-GAA stance .

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

The DUP's "lack of enthusiasm"/ "negativity" / "begrudging anti-GAA" attitude is not the reason we don't have Casement.
They have arrived at the scene of this car crash fairly recently but people are trying to pin it on them.
The GAA and Sinn Fein were asleep at the wheel for over a decade. Gordon Lyons has done a year (?) but he's the big bad wolf of the Casement project.

I am not anti-Irish and I am not anti-GAA but I don't believe that an extra £150 million should be given to the project so I understand why they also don't.
Them being anti-Irish is by the by.

[trileacman]

"A lack of enthusiasm" from the DUP towards Casement park is the reason it hasn't been built. I've f**king heard it all now.

If any of you are ever in doubt as to why NI is such a shithole it's because the people responsible for f**k ups are never held to account. All they've to do is rely on the good old inbuilt bigotry that exists. "Something goes wrong? It probably the fault of those Fenian/Orange bastards over there." Delete as appropriate.

[general_lee]

The DUP are the reason we don't have a shared stadium at Maze.

[6th sam]

We're going around in circles .
What I don't understand is that Absolutely Nobody is arguing that GAA and SF politicians haven't made historic mistakes here.
But as soon as we call out a party that has been in power here during that time , or the successive UK governments we're wheeling out the sectarian card.

So before you trip over yourselves to let unionism off the hook on these matters. Ask yourselves are u happy with unionisms attitude to legacy investigations, A5 , Irish language . Where's the accountability there ?

[Wildweasel74]

Why didn't we call Sinn Fein out past couple of yrs? They went awol for 3yrs, Casement didn't worry them then,
As did the DUP go walkie for 2yrs. Political parties don't give a shit unless it can pull them votes.

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

Go to those threads, Mr. Whatabout.

Benjamin Netanyahu is a bastard too but he's not to blame for the Casement fiasco.

[6th sam]

Interesting that these alleged GAA incompetents were fit to lobby and secure multi millions from the Irish government , but apparently get no traction from Stormont/Uk, who have already funded the other projects detailed.

I'd agree with an early poster that the GAA needs to park any historical ego around Casement.
The initial plans were not appropriate, the Euro solution was not likely to be sustainable.
A revised business  case , focussing on sustainable income generation which given precedent set elsewhere can pay off the initial government investment through Tax generation alone .
Should'nt  be all-seater , which will save build and maintenance cost and keep admission fees down .
A compact 26k arena is more than adequate, and should be designed to be atmosphere generating even when half full.
A concert venue
A conference venue .
Neighbouring infrastructure optimisation with a "village" effect including pubs , catering, entertainment and accommodation.

All above designed around sustainability and future income generation , so as not to be a millstone around the community and GAA members.
Where stadia are different to most other infrastructure, there is an opportunity for income generation.

Let's be creative and look at recent new stadia in Europe built within a realistic budget with a heavy emphasis on income generating as above.

A revised budget on these sustainable terms will still require considerable extra capital , but if the business case adds up, and it must, then harnessing cross-party support must be a given.

[smelmoth]

Has anyone sighted the business case re concerts etc. I suspect the PuC situation in Cork will make the GAA very nervous re "banking" revenues that don't exist.

Belfast is pretty well stocked for conference venues. Casement will certainly attract business but it's a very competitive market. No doubt it will attract some of the business that will be rotated around so to not offend any particular body more than another.

I assume those that are factoring in concerts into their thinking have seen some of the numbers behind that position? Perhaps they could share that info?

[twohands!!!]

A concert venue
A conference venue .
Neighbouring infrastructure optimisation with a "village" effect including pubs , catering, entertainment and accommodation.

All above designed around sustainability and future income generation , so as not to be a millstone around the community and GAA members.
Where stadia are different to most other infrastructure, there is an opportunity for income generation.

Let's be creative and look at recent new stadia in Europe built within a realistic budget with a heavy emphasis on income generating as above.

A revised budget on these sustainable terms will still require considerable extra capital , but if the business case adds up, and it must, then harnessing cross-party support must be a given.

Pretty much all of this could be taken word for word from the PR nonsense the Cork County Board were putting about in the "business case" for PuC when Cork GAA were in the "planning" stage.

The main issue with the current Casement plan is that it will probably be full one day a year, two-thirds/half-full for a handful of more days, mostly empty for the rest of the days it is in use and will be effectively closed the vast majority of days of the year. I would imagine that if they started looking at recent new stadia in Europe for ideas the first thing they would run into as regards any business plan is the expected footfall/number of days that the stadium will be used at more than a quarter capacity. I doubt there's any proposed stadium being built anywhere in the world (unless it's in one of the Oil States or somewhere similar) where the projected best case annual footfall and overall usage is so low.

Given Casement's location, the scope for developement in the surrounding area is extremely limited, if not close to nil. THe other thing is if the Ulster Council can't get the money for the stadium together it's hard to see them raising any money for any add-on developments.

Has anyone sighted the business case re concerts etc. I suspect the PuC situation in Cork will make the GAA very nervous re "banking" revenues that don't exist.

Belfast is pretty well stocked for conference venues. Casement will certainly attract business but it's a very competitive market. No doubt it will attract some of the business that will be rotated around so to not offend any particular body more than another.

I assume those that are factoring in concerts into their thinking have seen some of the numbers behind that position? Perhaps they could share that info?

Under the current planning permission, there is a maximum of 3 concerts/big events allowed at Casement a year (the same applies for PuC). Overall I'd imagine that Casement is likely to be in a very similar situation to PuC with regards getting any concert business. The Cork County Bord have spoken about the difficulty of attracting concerts to PuC because a 40k stadium is too small for the biggest acts and too big for a lot of smaller acts - PuC has no concert this year, 1 last year and none the year before. Cork County Board have also said that concerts are the only income that will move the dial any bit in terms of their millions in debt (basically admitted there's little to no chance of making anything beyond minimal profits for other stadium activity) so I really doubt they've been just sitting on their hands on the concert front. No financial plan for Casement should be viewing concert income as anything more than bonus income that might or might not happen.

[trileacman]

We're going around in circles .
What I don't understand is that Absolutely Nobody is arguing that GAA and SF politicians haven't made historic mistakes here.
But as soon as we call out a party that has been in power here during that time , or the successive UK governments we're wheeling out the sectarian card.

So before you trip over yourselves to let unionism off the hook on these matters. Ask yourselves are u happy with unionisms attitude to legacy investigations, A5 , Irish language . Where's the accountability there ?

The only thing going round in circles is your head.

This is the Casement thread not the A5, Irish language or legacy thread. Blaming the DUP for not building Casement is like blaming SF for Ulster not winning the Champions Cup.

[David McKeown]

Was speaking to the solicitor again yesterday. They were saying that those cases resolved but wouldn't go into detail. He did mention that the GAA were insisting proceedings be brought in the Republic of Ireland. That made me smile because of the irony (for lack of a better word).

In civil law where there are cross jurisdictional issues the usual position is that proceedings should be issued in the jurisdiction of the defendant. (Although that can be changed.)

I got the impression that a major reason for the resolution of the case was that the defendant got to play at home (as the usual position would be described). Which is somewhat ironic given the proceedings only arose because the home team were looking to play at home.

Perhaps my legal nerdiness coming to the fore but I enjoyed that.

[marty34]

I think there's £120m currently available for Casement Park?

What size of stadium would that build?

To a very good spec. obviously - 20, 000 seater roofed and coporate stuff etc.

Would the GAA give another £10m and both governments could chip in with £10m each also, if pushed?

Anything from EU?

Could get it up to £150m easily enough if the good will there.

Problem I have is that the longer it's stalled, the more money it'll cost to build.

Anybody have recent costings of similar stadiums in Europe?