Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[David McKeown]

I've no understanding nor sympathy for anyone that's taking this to court/solicitors/legal proceedings

The Ulster council made a mistake on how they presented the guarantee of getting to all games, that's it, they didn't take into consideration the capacity of Corrigan if Antrim were pulled first out of the hat, unfortunately some people will miss out, they are untitled to money back.

Move on, people throwing their dummies out are embarrassing themselves and are being rightly ridiculed, hopefully they are named so that they can be ridiculed a lot more.

MR2 I'm confused. Are you saying those who miss out are entitled to money back?  If so why have you no sympathy when the GAA are not offering money back?

[Milltown Row2]

I've no understanding nor sympathy for anyone that's taking this to court/solicitors/legal proceedings

The Ulster council made a mistake on how they presented the guarantee of getting to all games, that's it, they didn't take into consideration the capacity of Corrigan if Antrim were pulled first out of the hat, unfortunately some people will miss out, they are untitled to money back.

Move on, people throwing their dummies out are embarrassing themselves and are being rightly ridiculed, hopefully they are named so that they can be ridiculed a lot more.

MR2 I'm confused. Are you saying those who miss out are entitled to money back?  If so why have you no sympathy when the GAA are not offering money back?

I'm basically giving my view on it, the Ulster council SHOULD give the £20 quid back, that's what I have said in my various posts that those that have missed out are intitled to something, be it money or something else, but I've no sympathy for people using the courts for claiming back £20 quid, which is what's wrong with todays claim culture..

Have the Ulster council come out and said no refunds or exchanges, is there a link to their statement?

I know David you have a very black and white approach to this and within your role that is a definite and correct approach too, but the odd time within a generally volunteer amateur organisation there has been plenty of mistakes, but taking the same association to court, that will ultimately cost a serious arm and a leg, and claiming the Ulster council will lose out on revenue but then costing the council revenue is a bizarre take by these 8 people and the many in the background 'interested' in the outcome 

[JoG2]

David McKeown, you've explained the situation very well and remained calm in doing so.
You don't necessarily approve of the legal action but accept their right to do so and understand the two very straightforward arguments in their favour.
I'm sure you've felt like screaming into a pillow during your postings.

As it stands, no-one has actually missed out until Wednesday's sale comes and goes but let's say the "Ticket Gate 8" are successful whether via court or quiet settlement, then what? Surely it will open it up to other aggrieved patrons who actually do end up missing out. Of course, many will refuse to take legal action regardless, myself included, and I would encourage against it but again the right to do so is acknowledged.

Just a word on the narky BS by some posters on here towards collective Armagh fans. Just like you within your county, we express many different views, opinions and attitudes across a multitude of topics worthy of discussing on here or elsewhere. Posting negativity about a comment from one or 2 people along the lines of "Armagh fans are the worst" is such cheap nonsense. So easy to respond with "Tyrone fans" this or "Donegal fans" that if one balloon pipes in with a bad take. Insert any county name here that you wish and the derogatory term works but is still totally baseless.

Buckfast Brigade and the likes. I would say its been 20 years since my one and half bottle of buckfast :-)
Am I this Brigade lol?

Only thing I'd say is. What was offered with the season ticket was the guaranteed right to a ticket. The argument will be there that there is some value to that guarantee that was wrongly advertised.

Even if the 8 (and let's remember that's all I know about from one source. It's unlikely but there could be others)get a ticket in the first come first served procedure on Wednesday there has still been a loss of value (will be the argument) for which some form of compensation should be offered.

I've put up the small print on this twice already....tickets not guaranteed

Yes they are not guaranteed if one of two criteria are met. Neither are met in this instance.

Are you saying the GAA should not provide tickets to CB volunteers, players and sponsors and there will be enough room for all season ticket holders (who let's face it, a big % of these season ticket holders will be Johnny-come-latelys) , or what hasn't been met criteria wise?

Im saying the terms and conditions (which is actually slightly different to what you have quoted) guaranteed a right to buy a ticket unless one of two criteria were met.  One either the number of season ticket holders exceeded the capacity of the ground (it doesn't) or venue restrictions reduce the capacity to below the number of season ticket holders (again it didn't).  I am making no comment on who is more deserving than others of tickets I am simply pointing out that the T's and C's do not protect the association.  They are clearly in breach of contract. They have prioritised other contractual obligations.

For reference the relevant terms are:

In the event that the number of Season Ticket holders exceeds stadium capacity or venue restrictions the GAA offers no guarantee of the availability of seats or entry to that fixture.

In the event that a stadiums stand capacity is limited the GAA offers no guarantee of the availability of seats. Season Ticket holders may be allocated tickets in a different area in this event.

In the event of safety or capacity concerns the GAA reserves the right to re-locate GAA Season Ticket holders on or before match day without any prior notice to the GAA Season Ticket holder.

As they should, remaining capacity = capacity for season ticket holders / paying punters

Whether they should or shouldn't is a completely different debate.  It's not a defence in contract law to say we aren't going to honour our contractual obligations to a because we would rather honour our obligations to b.

If you do that you are still in breach of contract.

What contracts would be in place for say CB members and players? None I'd say. Who ultimately decides what the capacity is for a given match?

By definition capacity is the maximum something can hold. Giving tickets to CB members and players which again I have no issue with doesn't reduce capacity. It also doesn't act as a defence if the association chooses to use the available capacity for other groups no matter how admirable that decision may be.

This will be my last post as I'm boring myself nevermind others, and I'm not trying to be difficult, honestly...i know what capacity is, but the wording below from the terms and conditions

In the event that the number of Season Ticket holders exceeds stadium capacity or venue restrictions the GAA offers no guarantee of the availability of seats or entry to that fixture.

On a given day, for a certain match if the Ulster Council (who are putting the game on and who are wholly in control of how many can enter the turnstiles I assume) surely define what restrictions are in place ie reduced capacity because or a, y and z... Is this not their call?

[David McKeown]

David McKeown, you've explained the situation very well and remained calm in doing so.
You don't necessarily approve of the legal action but accept their right to do so and understand the two very straightforward arguments in their favour.
I'm sure you've felt like screaming into a pillow during your postings.

As it stands, no-one has actually missed out until Wednesday's sale comes and goes but let's say the "Ticket Gate 8" are successful whether via court or quiet settlement, then what? Surely it will open it up to other aggrieved patrons who actually do end up missing out. Of course, many will refuse to take legal action regardless, myself included, and I would encourage against it but again the right to do so is acknowledged.

Just a word on the narky BS by some posters on here towards collective Armagh fans. Just like you within your county, we express many different views, opinions and attitudes across a multitude of topics worthy of discussing on here or elsewhere. Posting negativity about a comment from one or 2 people along the lines of "Armagh fans are the worst" is such cheap nonsense. So easy to respond with "Tyrone fans" this or "Donegal fans" that if one balloon pipes in with a bad take. Insert any county name here that you wish and the derogatory term works but is still totally baseless.

Buckfast Brigade and the likes. I would say its been 20 years since my one and half bottle of buckfast :-)
Am I this Brigade lol?

Only thing I'd say is. What was offered with the season ticket was the guaranteed right to a ticket. The argument will be there that there is some value to that guarantee that was wrongly advertised.

Even if the 8 (and let's remember that's all I know about from one source. It's unlikely but there could be others)get a ticket in the first come first served procedure on Wednesday there has still been a loss of value (will be the argument) for which some form of compensation should be offered.

I've put up the small print on this twice already....tickets not guaranteed

Yes they are not guaranteed if one of two criteria are met. Neither are met in this instance.

Are you saying the GAA should not provide tickets to CB volunteers, players and sponsors and there will be enough room for all season ticket holders (who let's face it, a big % of these season ticket holders will be Johnny-come-latelys) , or what hasn't been met criteria wise?

Im saying the terms and conditions (which is actually slightly different to what you have quoted) guaranteed a right to buy a ticket unless one of two criteria were met.  One either the number of season ticket holders exceeded the capacity of the ground (it doesn't) or venue restrictions reduce the capacity to below the number of season ticket holders (again it didn't).  I am making no comment on who is more deserving than others of tickets I am simply pointing out that the T's and C's do not protect the association.  They are clearly in breach of contract. They have prioritised other contractual obligations.

For reference the relevant terms are:

In the event that the number of Season Ticket holders exceeds stadium capacity or venue restrictions the GAA offers no guarantee of the availability of seats or entry to that fixture.

In the event that a stadiums stand capacity is limited the GAA offers no guarantee of the availability of seats. Season Ticket holders may be allocated tickets in a different area in this event.

In the event of safety or capacity concerns the GAA reserves the right to re-locate GAA Season Ticket holders on or before match day without any prior notice to the GAA Season Ticket holder.

As they should, remaining capacity = capacity for season ticket holders / paying punters

Whether they should or shouldn't is a completely different debate.  It's not a defence in contract law to say we aren't going to honour our contractual obligations to a because we would rather honour our obligations to b.

If you do that you are still in breach of contract.

What contracts would be in place for say CB members and players? None I'd say. Who ultimately decides what the capacity is for a given match?

By definition capacity is the maximum something can hold. Giving tickets to CB members and players which again I have no issue with doesn't reduce capacity. It also doesn't act as a defence if the association chooses to use the available capacity for other groups no matter how admirable that decision may be.

This will be my last post as I'm boring myself nevermind others, and I'm not trying to be difficult, honestly...i know what capacity is, but the wording below from the terms and conditions

In the event that the number of Season Ticket holders exceeds stadium capacity or venue restrictions the GAA offers no guarantee of the availability of seats or entry to that fixture.

On a given day, for a certain match if the Ulster Council (who are putting the game on and who are wholly in control of how many can enter the turnstiles I assume) surely define what restrictions are in place ie reduced capacity because or a, y and z... Is this not their call?

No that wouldn't be a venue restriction that would be a decision made by one of the parties to the contract. It would be different if the position was that no one else was being permitted entry I.e the capacity of the venue was restricted.

[johnnycool]

Surprised the TUV have any interest in Casement/Mountbatten Park

https://belfastmedia.com/casement-royal-family

 

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

While I appreciate the date, there are plenty who would do anything to get it over the line.

[armaghniac]

This will be my last post as I'm boring myself nevermind others, and I'm not trying to be difficult, honestly...i know what capacity is, but the wording below from the terms and conditions

In the event that the number of Season Ticket holders exceeds stadium capacity or venue restrictions the GAA offers no guarantee of the availability of seats or entry to that fixture.

On a given day, for a certain match if the Ulster Council (who are putting the game on and who are wholly in control of how many can enter the turnstiles I assume) surely define what restrictions are in place ie reduced capacity because or a, y and z... Is this not their call?

The point is that the reduced capacity exceeds the number of ticket holders, but the GAA is choosing to give tickets to other people in preference to those that they engaged in a contract with. The season ticket contract does not mention these people getting preference or any basis for deciding who gets what. Basically the GAA reasonably decided that 3500 people would generally fit in and there was no need for complex wording to cater for a county refusing to move to a suitable ground, so they haven't left themselves much legal cover. 

You'll see some new wording in the future I suspect. Next year's ticket will say something like "In the event that the number of Season Ticket holders exceeds 50% (or some other number) of stadium capacity the GAA offers no guarantee of the availability of seats or entry to that fixture". However, next year's wording won't play any part in this case.

[p3427977]

Throw Armagh out of the championship I say.

[AustinPowers]

Surprised the TUV have any interest in Casement/Mountbatten Park

https://belfastmedia.com/casement-royal-family

 

Well, it can't be Windsor surely? There would be two then 

Like  having two Central stations ffs

[Milltown Row2]

There is a serious amount of, I don't agree with the 8 nob heads, but!

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

Oh great, a rally....

What a steaming pile of shite.

[BigGreenField]

Oh great, a rally....

What a steaming pile of shite.

Daft idea off all the shite wrong with the world this doesn't make the top 500.

Unless the march is to Ulster Gaa in Armagh to ask them what are they doing to get anything done instead of looking an open ended cheque.

[Milltown Row2]

Will there be 8 at the rally or plenty more?

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

Oh great, a rally....

What a steaming pile of shite.

Daft idea off all the shite wrong with the world this doesn't make the top 500.

Unless the march is to Ulster Gaa in Armagh to ask them what are they doing to get anything done instead of looking an open ended cheque.

+1

15 years deep into this mess and we're going to have a rally. Completely pathetic.

[RedHand88]

Oh great, a rally....

What a steaming pile of shite.

Daft idea off all the shite wrong with the world this doesn't make the top 500.

Unless the march is to Ulster Gaa in Armagh to ask them what are they doing to get anything done instead of looking an open ended cheque.

+1

15 years deep into this mess and we're going to have a rally. Completely pathetic.

If there's one thing this country loves, it's a rally. Expect to see the local MLAs and councillors with a megaphone blowing a load of hot air, without any real plan to how to move the project forward, then tweeting photos of them blowing hot air for all their followers. Why is nobody in any position of power saying the obvious - "we need to scale this down, it clearly isn't feasible".