Author Topic: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.  (Read 386088 times)

BennyCake

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7581
    • View Profile
Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #3015 on: February 14, 2020, 11:22:04 AM »
If Casement was built for a 20k capacity, would it not realistically get more games than a 32k stadium?

I mean, why the need to bring loads of schools, McKenna Cup, Ulster Club, NHL, NFL matches etc to a 32k ground when maybe only a few thousand are in attendance?

Armagh gets loads of matches, and crowds fit in no bother: McRory, McKenna Cup, NFL, Ulster Club finals, and all Tyrone home games of course. Bar the odd championship match, where more capacity might be needed, itís adequate size.

NAG1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4369
    • View Profile
Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #3016 on: February 14, 2020, 11:26:17 AM »
If Casement was built for a 20k capacity, would it not realistically get more games than a 32k stadium?

I mean, why the need to bring loads of schools, McKenna Cup, Ulster Club, NHL, NFL matches etc to a 32k ground when maybe only a few thousand are in attendance?

Armagh gets loads of matches, and crowds fit in no bother: McRory, McKenna Cup, NFL, Ulster Club finals, and all Tyrone home games of course. Bar the odd championship match, where more capacity might be needed, itís adequate size.

What would be the point in building that then?
Building what you already have down the road, surely the point is that it would be able to host the biggest games going as well as other money generating events.

I wouldn't worry about getting loads of matches into it as i'd say it will be closed up most of the time anyway and limited access granted to all the Antrim clubs who used to own it.


Rossfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15856
  • Ballaghaderreen CO ROSCOMMON
    • View Profile
    • Roscommon County Board official website
Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #3017 on: February 14, 2020, 11:28:07 AM »
Agree with Benny (for once  :o ;D).
A 20k capacity, 5k seated,covered stand on one side. Terracing on the other 3 sides with cover between the two 45s.
Should be achievable with the funds available.
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....

NAG1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4369
    • View Profile
Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #3018 on: February 14, 2020, 11:45:20 AM »
Agree with Benny (for once  :o ;D).
A 20k capacity, 5k seated,covered stand on one side. Terracing on the other 3 sides with cover between the two 45s.
Should be achievable with the funds available.

So pretty much an identikit of what exists already in most counties?

BennyCake

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7581
    • View Profile
Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #3019 on: February 14, 2020, 11:46:28 AM »
If Casement was built for a 20k capacity, would it not realistically get more games than a 32k stadium?

I mean, why the need to bring loads of schools, McKenna Cup, Ulster Club, NHL, NFL matches etc to a 32k ground when maybe only a few thousand are in attendance?

Armagh gets loads of matches, and crowds fit in no bother: McRory, McKenna Cup, NFL, Ulster Club finals, and all Tyrone home games of course. Bar the odd championship match, where more capacity might be needed, itís adequate size.

What would be the point in building that then?
Building what you already have down the road, surely the point is that it would be able to host the biggest games going as well as other money generating events.

I wouldn't worry about getting loads of matches into it as i'd say it will be closed up most of the time anyway and limited access granted to all the Antrim clubs who used to own it.

Wouldnít Clones still hold more? (36,000). Plus Clones, while not ideal transport links into it, but itís still more accessible for most counties than Belfast is.

By the way, these other events you refer to? What exactly will they be? In terms of concert venues, sure Belfast has the Odyssey, Waterfront, and other events at Boucher fields and Kings Hall. Would Casemrnt really be able to attract some events away from those places?

BennyCake

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7581
    • View Profile
Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #3020 on: February 14, 2020, 11:48:19 AM »
Agree with Benny (for once  :o ;D).
A 20k capacity, 5k seated,covered stand on one side. Terracing on the other 3 sides with cover between the two 45s.
Should be achievable with the funds available.

Windsor Park hold 18k, has covered seating all around it. Looks tidy. Something similar is achievable at Casemrnt.

armaghniac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13046
    • View Profile
Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #3021 on: February 14, 2020, 12:00:17 PM »
Agree with Benny (for once  :o ;D).
A 20k capacity, 5k seated,covered stand on one side. Terracing on the other 3 sides with cover between the two 45s.
Should be achievable with the funds available.

So Antrim get a free county ground paid for by the taxpayer and the rest of the counties still have to fund a stadium for Ulster finals elsewhere?
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

five points

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 821
    • View Profile
Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #3022 on: February 14, 2020, 12:13:06 PM »
The whole idea is mad. People are literally searching for justifications to spend tens of millions of GAA  and taxpayer money on an unspecified project that the GAA clearly neither wants nor needs.

The GAA should cut their losses, offer Antrim £2/£3m to build a new stand, restore the terraces, fix the pitch and clean up the place. Let Antrim beg, borrow or steal whatever they can get from the authorities and their own fundraising for whatever else they want to spend.

Allocate some money to Clones to fix the Hill.

Then move on.

RadioGAAGAA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1010
    • View Profile
Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #3023 on: February 14, 2020, 12:18:42 PM »
The whole idea is mad. People are literally searching for justifications to spend tens of millions of GAA  and taxpayer money on an unspecified project that the GAA clearly neither wants nor needs.

The GAA should cut their losses, offer Antrim £2/£3m to build a new stand, restore the terraces, fix the pitch and clean up the place. Let Antrim beg, borrow or steal whatever they can get from the authorities and their own fundraising for whatever else they want to spend.

Allocate some money to Clones to fix the Hill.

Then move on.

Absolutely correct (in my opinion).

[and stick a roof over the East terrace]

i usse an speelchekor

BennyCake

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7581
    • View Profile
Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #3024 on: February 14, 2020, 12:24:36 PM »
Yup, cut their losses. Build a smaller stadium.

Stop wasting time and millions of pounds. Get it feckiní built.

Maroon Manc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2622
    • View Profile
Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #3025 on: February 14, 2020, 12:36:44 PM »
How much are the GAA & the Britsh taxpayer going to contribute towards the project?

RadioGAAGAA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1010
    • View Profile
Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #3026 on: February 14, 2020, 12:38:02 PM »
Its not just cut the GAA losses, where do the fools that advocate this spending think the govt money is coming from?

A fukking magic money tree in Westminster?

Boris Johnson is not going to hand it over in one hand without taking a lot of it back in the other hand.

Folk need to fukking get real. Would you rather the money wasted on a white elephant at Casement, or put into the RVH?
i usse an speelchekor

Evil Genius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4014
    • View Profile
Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #3027 on: February 14, 2020, 12:40:28 PM »
Excuse my ignorance but what, precisely, is the delay on Casement getting built? I know there were planning problems and objections from residents but how long does it take to resolve and/or revise plans?? This delay is nothing short of an utter disgrace and shocking!

Stalemate usually comes from incompetence. Is that the problem here?

No Stormont was a big part of it.
Who exactly at Stormont, and how?

Fact is, the GAA alighted on a plan for a 40k seater super stadium, with corporate facilities and the ability to host concerts etc, without considering the need for Planning Permission.

And their design was never going to get PP, since Safety concerns (esp evacuation in an emergency) over the site were patently inadequate. I'd have thought it pretty basic not to have taken into consideration such an essential aspect before drawing up firm plans and spending millions.

Nor did they help themselves by failing hopelessly to anticipate the feelings of many local residents who, far from seeing "regeneration" for their area, saw only "blight" instead

Worse still, when PP was refused specifically on those grounds, instead of accepting it and coming back with a revised plan which could meet H&S concerns, they came back with a Casement Mk.II which still didn't pass.

Now you might understand this if there were an overwhelming need for an all-singing, all-dancing 40k stadium in Belfast, but as many people on here have pointed out, this is highly questionable. And maybe in "another jurisdiction", it might have been more feasible for the GAA to override Planning considerations? (I'm being mischievous here, btw  ;))

Meanwhile if there were no other suitable location for same in NI, why not go for a more modest proposal which would cost a lot less overall, meaning the GAA could be able to build it solely with Government money and re-direct their own £15m contribution elsewhere?

Finally, if there was political interference from Stormont, the chief source of this was actually SF, who hoped to gain political credit from being associated with this, but clearly never appreciated that it mightn't be much of a vote-winner, if at all.
"If you come in here again, you'd better bring guns"
"We don't need guns"
"Yes you fuckin' do"

Evil Genius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4014
    • View Profile
Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #3028 on: February 14, 2020, 12:53:00 PM »
How much are the GAA & the Britsh taxpayer going to contribute towards the project?
The original agreement was that if the GAA would come up with £15m, then the government would stretch to £62m.

And £77m was considered adequate to build the 40k stadium which the GAA wanted (but was unable to get Planning Permission for).

Since then, when you factor in additional legal and other professional costs already incurred/spent (and more still to come?), plus general construction industry inflation, the cost for the GAA's latest proposal is coming in somewhere north of £100m.

It seems that the GAA are hoping that the shortfall, which stems basically from their own incompetence, will be made up by Stormont. But the government's original contribution was ring-fenced from the Maze money (only) and there should be no provision to increase it. (The IRFU and IFA would also have cause to complain).

Though I say "should", since I expect the new Sports Minister may try to, er, finesse the budget in this direction. She'll need a strong wind behind her, I'd say.

"Hurricane Deirdre"?
"If you come in here again, you'd better bring guns"
"We don't need guns"
"Yes you fuckin' do"

RadioGAAGAA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1010
    • View Profile
Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
« Reply #3029 on: February 14, 2020, 01:11:21 PM »
Meanwhile if there were no other suitable location for same in NI, why not go for a more modest proposal which would cost a lot less overall, meaning the GAA could be able to build it solely with Government money and re-direct their own £15m contribution elsewhere?

Indeed.

£15m from the govt (approx equivalent of Ravenhill) would be comfortably enough to renovate Casement into a 20K, single stand, one cover terrace stadium; suitable to Antrim's needs and fit to act as a neutral venue for all but Ulster finals and big Ulster semi-finals.

Then that £15m of the GAA's could be put into paying coaches within Antrim (in a similar manner as the money put into Dublin).

i usse an speelchekor