Was Cody right to start Shefflin?

[AZOffaly]

I actually thought there might be a bit of intentional distraction going on, but I should have known better. I had a suspicion that Cody was happy for all the Henry talk to go on, because that was leading to less '5 in a row' talk going on. I assumed he'd either not play him at all, or else the extent of the injury was far less severe than initially feared.

But in fairness it was straight up. He was in trouble, they did think he'd be okay, it was a gamble and it failed.

[magpie seanie]

How some people with little or no medical knowledge can question Cody or even more importantly someone like Gerard Hartmann who has worked with over 50 Olympic medalists is beyond me. Of course these are the type of people whose style of "debate" includes such arguments as calling people clowns and saying everyone agrees with their point of view (when clearly that's not the case).

Shefflin trained a good few times on it and while I'm sure it wasn't full pelt it was hardly picnic stuff either. It was a calculated gamble which did not come off. The fact that Tennyson came through and played well reinforces the correctness of trying it in my book. Some people would have you think it was done on a whim.  I suppose if you're heros got extra special whippings off KK in recent times you'd be sore too. 

[Maiden1]

3 similar injuries to key players in recent weeks with the 3 managers taking different approaches.

McGeeney named the team with Earley starting then didn't start him.
McCartan said Rodgers wouldn't be playing from early on and Fitzpatrick was taking his place and did exactly that.
Cody said Shefflin would be starting and all the focus in Kilkenny was on whether Shefflin would be playing.  Was there 2 much focus on Henry Shefflin considering some of the other players on the Kilkenny team?

Shefflin was not fit to start, they where 1-5 to 0-1 (or something like that) down when Shefflin came off, he missed a couple of frees (difficult frees) by quite a distance that he would normally have got at least 1 of and there was a few breaking balls around the 1/2 forward line that he would normally been first on to where he looked like he was only 1/2 going for the ball and 1/2 wondering should he be out there at all. 

No one can know for sure what would have happened if Cody had told Michael Rice and the rest of the team at the start of the week to forget about Henry and start focusing on the final without him.  I think Cody made a mistake, there is a good chance Cody with hindsight will think it was a mistake as well.  It is very unlike Cody as well.  He is usually totally ruthless with players like Charlie Carter in terms of dropping them, it looks like he made an exception for Henry Shefflin.

[theskull1]

Is it OK if I agree with the points made by maiden rather than regurgitate the same arguments 

Looking at henry in the warm up he just didn't look right to me and it was even more pronounced the first few balls he went for. All very subtle but I didn't like the look of how he was slowing down/turning. As maiden has said Cody is normally ruthless when it comes to these type of decisions. I think him not doing so on this occasion showed weakness and affected the rest of the teams preparation going into the game

[orangeman]

We all knew from the very first free that he was not fit. He didn't swing through it at all - he seemed to be afraid of it.

[The Konica]

How some people with little or no medical knowledge can question Cody or even more importantly someone like Gerard Hartmann who has worked with over 50 Olympic medalists is beyond me. Of course these are the type of people whose style of "debate" includes such arguments as calling people clowns and saying everyone agrees with their point of view (when clearly that's not the case).

Shefflin trained a good few times on it and while I'm sure it wasn't full pelt it was hardly picnic stuff either. It was a calculated gamble which did not come off. The fact that Tennyson came through and played well reinforces the correctness of trying it in my book. Some people would have you think it was done on a whim.  I suppose if you're heros got extra special whippings off KK in recent times you'd be sore too. 

A few points on the above.
1. Hartmann may have 'worked with' over 50 olympic medalists - Not many would have been ACL's. They are a completely different family of injury.
2. Training and playing in an AI final are not the same (as Larry said himself today) - How hard do you think the KK boys pushed or tackled Henry Shefflin in training? You think you'd want to have been the man to be labelled the guy who crippled HS and ruined the 'Drive for 5'? Not a hope.
3. Thirdly, the position is important - stopping, twisting and turning are the key protective roles of the ACL. While CHB is not a role where twisting and turning is non-essential - the positioning of HS with back to goal is far more predicated on such demands.

[The Konica]

3 similar injuries to key players in recent weeks with the 3 managers taking different approaches.

McGeeney named the team with Earley starting then didn't start him.
McCartan said Rodgers wouldn't be playing from early on and Fitzpatrick was taking his place and did exactly that.
Cody said Shefflin would be starting and all the focus in Kilkenny was on whether Shefflin would be playing.  Was there 2 much focus on Henry Shefflin considering some of the other players on the Kilkenny team?

Shefflin was not fit to start, they where 1-5 to 0-1 (or something like that) down when Shefflin came off, he missed a couple of frees (difficult frees) by quite a distance that he would normally have got at least 1 of and there was a few breaking balls around the 1/2 forward line that he would normally been first on to where he looked like he was only 1/2 going for the ball and 1/2 wondering should he be out there at all. 

No one can know for sure what would have happened if Cody had told Michael Rice and the rest of the team at the start of the week to forget about Henry and start focusing on the final without him.  I think Cody made a mistake, there is a good chance Cody with hindsight will think it was a mistake as well.  It is very unlike Cody as well.  He is usually totally ruthless with players like Charlie Carter in terms of dropping them, it looks like he made an exception for Henry Shefflin.

Excellent post.
You've clearly outlined the difference between the team knowing and the outsiders knowing and the fact that Cody perhaps should have been much more ruthless in his approach and not fooled into thinking that Henry could have recovered.

[The Konica]

Is it OK if I agree with the points made by maiden rather than regurgitate the same arguments 

Looking at henry in the warm up he just didn't look right to me and it was even more pronounced the first few balls he went for. All very subtle but I didn't like the look of how he was slowing down/turning. As maiden has said Cody is normally ruthless when it comes to these type of decisions. I think him not doing so on this occasion showed weakness and affected the rest of the teams preparation going into the game

Exactly see my post above.

Before the game I was of two minds
1. It's not an ACL injury at all - it's been completely misdiagnosed. There is some cartilage damage and muscle injury but no ACL injury. This was supported by no one clearly coming out and saying for definite or being quoted (after about the Monday after the game) that it was 100% an ACL injury. All that there was was Ian O'Riordan cheerleading about the Lazarus recovery he had.

2. It is a partial ACL injury and he'll last 10 minutes. An ACL injury or more correctly the symptoms of one (swelling etc) can actually die down quite quickly, and the player with correct recovery can resume exercise quite fast. But twisting, turning etc are never at full pace for quite some time.

Sadly 2 it was.

I think Cody did make a mistake, but I certainly think he deserves far more credit for getting KK to that stage - the Drive for 5 was a great testament to his ability not to mention his players.

It's easy being wise after the event.
I sure as hell couldn't have even got into Cody's position to even make that 'mistake'.

[orangeman]

Cody staying on according to KK board tonight.

[AZOffaly]

Shite