Take back the Church from the Pope to the People?

[Tony Baloney]

armaghniac, you should put Nicky Rackard cup 2010 winners in your signature as well

Someone in Armagh noticed?!

[ardmhachaabu]

A few of us

[pintsofguinness]

This man was given till 6pm last Saturday to pack his bags and go and then we are told he has voluntarily stepped down. It's good to see the people of Blackrock have a bit of back bone when they stormed the sacristy and faced down the Bishop. And more importantly, the parishioners vow there'll be no more dues or envelopes paid. This might be the start of it.




A LOCAL priest who has voluntarily stepped down while the Catholic Church investigates a complaint relating to child safeguarding has said he is "absolutely innocent".


Former Haggardstown-Blackrock Parish Priest Fr Oliver Brennan told The Dundalk Democrat that he would like to comment further, however, he is unable to do so due to legal reasons.

Parishioners were left reeling after Bishop Gerard Clifford made the shock announcement after Mass in Blackrock and Haggardstown last weekend.

Bishop Clifford addressed the congregation in Blackrock about a decision made regarding their parish priest after the 6.30pm mass on Saturday, August 14. He addressed the congregation in Haggardstown at 9am mass the following day.

Speaking at Mass Bishop Clifford said: "This week the Archdiocese has been made aware of a complaint relating to child safeguarding against a priest of the diocese.

"The priest has agreed to voluntarily step down to allow the investigation into this matter to be conducted efficiently. The allegation has been reported to the civil authorities, and the Diocese and the priest will fully cooperate with any investigation. Whilst this process is ongoing the priest is entitled to the benefit of a presumption of innocence."

According to church-goers who were present at the Blackrock Mass when Bishop Clifford was reading the statement, "the church was so quiet, you could hear a pin drop".

Eye-witnesses said that there was "war in the sacristy" after Bishop Clifford had finished the announcement. A number of parishioners verbally challenged the Bishop in the sacristy who told them he was unable to make any additional comment.

A spokesperson for the Archdiocese of Armagh told The Dundalk Democrat that he could not comment on where and when the alleged offence was supposed to have occurred.

However, a source claims that the alleged offence is said to have been reported by an anonymous caller, and is said to have occurred over 30 years ago.

Fr Brennan, who originally comes from Edmondstown, Ardee was based in Haggardstown-Blackrock for just over 10 years and is hugely popular with his parishioners, young and old alike.

Parishioners in Blackrock and Haggardstown have voiced their support for Fr Brennan who was told by the Church two weeks ago that he would be moved to a different parish in early September.

Angered by the Church's decision, the parishioners went on strike refusing to collect dues or pay over €1 million in debt owed for the refurbishment of their church if the popular priest was removed.

"I know the procedures have to be in place but I don't believe it. He was such a dedicated man. I can't put words on it. It's so awful for him as a person and as a priest," said Blackrock parishioner Vivienne Lamont.

Fidelma Lavelle from Dunmahon said she is "utterly disgusted" by Fr Brennan's removal from the parish.

"The man is distraught. The whole parish is distraught.

There seems to be more to that story - the offence was reported by an anonymous caller? wtf? 

[IolarCoisCuain]

Definitely not, there are significant differences in faith and dogma between the Catholic church and the various Protestant denominations.  What I was trying to point out, was that when a person or group of persons decide to break out from under the of the Church hierarchy then invariably a train of events are set in motion that result in a new religion. The resulting religion that would inevitably evolve from "kicking the Cardinals out of our cathedrals" would mean a new church, which couldn't possibly call itself Catholic.  Thats all.

The only real big dogmatic difference that exists between the Catholic Church and the schismatics is between Rome and the Eastern Orthodox Churches. The dispute began over the nature of how humanity and divinity mixed in Christ. The distance between Rome and Constantinople didn't help, of course.

The Episcopalian churches go back to Henry VIII's decision to divorce his wife in the early 16th Century and marry a woman half her age. That wasn't a doctrinal dispute. That was about power, politics and the royal taste for skirt. The Churches have evolved differently since, but it's difficult to measure similarities and differences now as so many different branches of Protestantism exist. For instance, the current Anglican Bishop of York would have more in common with Rome than with the Right Reverend Gene Robinson, even though they are both - nominally - Episcopalian.

Robert Blair Kaiser has no credibility. He's talking through his hat.

Haven't a bog what's going on in Cork, other than an expectation that they'll take Dublin on Sunday.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Speaking of Robert Blair Kaiser, take a look at his website: http://www.robertblairkaiser.com/

I wouldn't leave him in charge of the TV remote.

[supersarsfields]

Pity we couldn't end all religion everywhere, that would be great.

A world without religion probably would result in the better values that Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, etc. etc. etc. claim to aspire too becoming a reality as Atheists tend to be the most moral people around from my experience.

while I don't believe being part of a religion means you automatically have better moral values than others I wouldn't agree with that statement either.

[muppet]

Definitely not, there are significant differences in faith and dogma between the Catholic church and the various Protestant denominations.  What I was trying to point out, was that when a person or group of persons decide to break out from under the of the Church hierarchy then invariably a train of events are set in motion that result in a new religion. The resulting religion that would inevitably evolve from "kicking the Cardinals out of our cathedrals" would mean a new church, which couldn't possibly call itself Catholic.  Thats all.

The only real big dogmatic difference that exists between the Catholic Church and the schismatics is between Rome and the Eastern Orthodox Churches. The dispute began over the nature of how humanity and divinity mixed in Christ. The distance between Rome and Constantinople didn't help, of course.

The Episcopalian churches go back to Henry VIII's decision to divorce his wife in the early 16th Century and marry a woman half her age. That wasn't a doctrinal dispute. That was about power, politics and the royal taste for skirt. The Churches have evolved differently since, but it's difficult to measure similarities and differences now as so many different branches of Protestantism exist. For instance, the current Anglican Bishop of York would have more in common with Rome than with the Right Reverend Gene Robinson, even though they are both - nominally - Episcopalian.

Robert Blair Kaiser has no credibility. He's talking through his hat.

Haven't a bog what's going on in Cork, other than an expectation that they'll take Dublin on Sunday.

The Roman Catholic Church moved to Byzantium with Constantine. Sometime in the 9th Century a document was produced which apparently made the Bishop of Rome head of the west Roman Church. This document claimed that in the 5th Century, just as he left Rome, Constantine donated the western part of the old Roman empire and most of the world (i.e. everything but the old East Roman Empire) to the Roman bishop. It is thought that it was after this document was produced that the Bishop of Rome became known as Papa and later Pope.

This forgery elevated the status and power of the Pope. Charlemagne was crowned Emperor of the Frankish Empire (the title Emperor was to suggest a continuation of the line of Roman Emperors) by Pope Stephen under the auspices of the Donation. It is thought that Stephen initiated the coronation to gain favour with Charlemagne as Rome was in serious danger from the Lombardians who raided frequently. Of course Stephen claimed that only the Bishop of Rome had the authority under God to crown an Emperor and this obviously did no harm to his own status.

A year after the coronation Charlemagne routed the Lombardians and gave their lands to the Pope, these became known as the Papal Lands and existed up to the 1920s.

Catholic Encyclopedia - Donation of Constantine

[ONeill]

Sure didn't the Pope sent the Brits over here to sort us out. Papal Bull my hole.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Definitely not, there are significant differences in faith and dogma between the Catholic church and the various Protestant denominations.  What I was trying to point out, was that when a person or group of persons decide to break out from under the of the Church hierarchy then invariably a train of events are set in motion that result in a new religion. The resulting religion that would inevitably evolve from "kicking the Cardinals out of our cathedrals" would mean a new church, which couldn't possibly call itself Catholic.  Thats all.

The only real big dogmatic difference that exists between the Catholic Church and the schismatics is between Rome and the Eastern Orthodox Churches. The dispute began over the nature of how humanity and divinity mixed in Christ. The distance between Rome and Constantinople didn't help, of course.

The Episcopalian churches go back to Henry VIII's decision to divorce his wife in the early 16th Century and marry a woman half her age. That wasn't a doctrinal dispute. That was about power, politics and the royal taste for skirt. The Churches have evolved differently since, but it's difficult to measure similarities and differences now as so many different branches of Protestantism exist. For instance, the current Anglican Bishop of York would have more in common with Rome than with the Right Reverend Gene Robinson, even though they are both - nominally - Episcopalian.

Robert Blair Kaiser has no credibility. He's talking through his hat.

Haven't a bog what's going on in Cork, other than an expectation that they'll take Dublin on Sunday.

The Roman Catholic Church moved to Byzantium with Constantine. Sometime in the 9th Century a document was produced which apparently made the Bishop of Rome head of the west Roman Church. This document claimed that in the 5th Century, just as he left Rome, Constantine donated the western part of the old Roman empire and most of the world (i.e. everything but the old East Roman Empire) to the Roman bishop. It is thought that it was after this document was produced that the Bishop of Rome became known as Papa and later Pope.

This forgery elevated the status and power of the Pope. Charlemagne was crowned Emperor of the Frankish Empire (the title Emperor was to suggest a continuation of the line of Roman Emperors) by Pope Stephen under the auspices of the Donation. It is thought that Stephen initiated the coronation to gain favour with Charlemagne as Rome was in serious danger from the Lombardians who raided frequently. Of course Stephen claimed that only the Bishop of Rome had the authority under God to crown an Emperor and this obviously did no harm to his own status.

A year after the coronation Charlemagne routed the Lombardians and gave their lands to the Pope, these became known as the Papal Lands and existed up to the 1920s.

Catholic Encyclopedia - Donation of Constantine

Byzantium fell in the 13th Century and the Papal States in the 19th. I think that the question of homoousion remains at the root of the schism however.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Sure didn't the Pope sent the Brits over here to sort us out. Papal Bull my hole.

No. The Pope approved the Norman invasion after the event, but he did not send them.

The Normans came here at the invitation of Diarmuid McMurrough to help him win back the Kingdom of Leinster. They weren't sent by the Pope.

[ONeill]

Ach Adrian knew what he was at - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laudabiliter

[muppet]

Definitely not, there are significant differences in faith and dogma between the Catholic church and the various Protestant denominations.  What I was trying to point out, was that when a person or group of persons decide to break out from under the of the Church hierarchy then invariably a train of events are set in motion that result in a new religion. The resulting religion that would inevitably evolve from "kicking the Cardinals out of our cathedrals" would mean a new church, which couldn't possibly call itself Catholic.  Thats all.

The only real big dogmatic difference that exists between the Catholic Church and the schismatics is between Rome and the Eastern Orthodox Churches. The dispute began over the nature of how humanity and divinity mixed in Christ. The distance between Rome and Constantinople didn't help, of course.

The Episcopalian churches go back to Henry VIII's decision to divorce his wife in the early 16th Century and marry a woman half her age. That wasn't a doctrinal dispute. That was about power, politics and the royal taste for skirt. The Churches have evolved differently since, but it's difficult to measure similarities and differences now as so many different branches of Protestantism exist. For instance, the current Anglican Bishop of York would have more in common with Rome than with the Right Reverend Gene Robinson, even though they are both - nominally - Episcopalian.

Robert Blair Kaiser has no credibility. He's talking through his hat.

Haven't a bog what's going on in Cork, other than an expectation that they'll take Dublin on Sunday.

The Roman Catholic Church moved to Byzantium with Constantine. Sometime in the 9th Century a document was produced which apparently made the Bishop of Rome head of the west Roman Church. This document claimed that in the 5th Century, just as he left Rome, Constantine donated the western part of the old Roman empire and most of the world (i.e. everything but the old East Roman Empire) to the Roman bishop. It is thought that it was after this document was produced that the Bishop of Rome became known as Papa and later Pope.

This forgery elevated the status and power of the Pope. Charlemagne was crowned Emperor of the Frankish Empire (the title Emperor was to suggest a continuation of the line of Roman Emperors) by Pope Stephen under the auspices of the Donation. It is thought that Stephen initiated the coronation to gain favour with Charlemagne as Rome was in serious danger from the Lombardians who raided frequently. Of course Stephen claimed that only the Bishop of Rome had the authority under God to crown an Emperor and this obviously did no harm to his own status.

A year after the coronation Charlemagne routed the Lombardians and gave their lands to the Pope, these became known as the Papal Lands and existed up to the 1920s.

Catholic Encyclopedia - Donation of Constantine

Byzantium fell in the 13th Century and the Papal States in the 19th. I think that the question of homoousion remains at the root of the schism however.

Ended permanently by the Lateran Treaty in 1929.

[IolarCoisCuain]

With two men as well up on religious matters as ourselves within the borders of the sweet County Mayo God will surely not leave us another year without Sam Muppet. It just cannot happen.

[muppet]

With two men as well up on religious matters as ourselves within the borders of the sweet County Mayo God will surely not leave us another year without Sam Muppet. It just cannot happen.

I'm not well up on these matters at all, just read (still have to finish it) Millenium by Tom Holland. He has writen brilliant narrative history books such as Rubicon and Persian Fire.

But I'll see if I can put in a good word with the Man above anyway...........just to see like......

[stew]

Pity we couldn't end all religion everywhere, that would be great.

A world without religion probably would result in the better values that Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, etc. etc. etc. claim to aspire too becoming a reality as Atheists tend to be the most moral people around from my experience.

A complete load of horse c**k.