8 Provinces finalists lose out?

[The Forfeit Point]

Why does it not look good?

Next year all the semifinalists will be provincial champions, then the likes of you will be proclaiming the qualifiers as a waste of time.

If shocks and unexpected outcomes didn't happen, we wouldn't watch sport. But for some bizarre reason people regard a lack of symmetry in GAA outcomes as an area of concern.

great to hear the voice of common sense. well said

wasn't this the whole idea of the back door, to give teams a second chance. if no back door team got through to the semi final, some eejits in the media would be ringing alarm bells about that too

[WeePeteIsALegend]

Why does it not look good?

Next year all the semifinalists will be provincial champions, then the likes of you will be proclaiming the qualifiers as a waste of time.

If shocks and unexpected outcomes didn't happen, we wouldn't watch sport. But for some bizarre reason people regard a lack of symmetry in GAA outcomes as an area of concern.

great to hear the voice of common sense. well said

wasn't this the whole idea of the back door, to give teams a second chance. if no back door team got through to the semi final, some eejits in the media would be ringing alarm bells about that too

No. The whole idea was to make the GAA more money. They claimed at the time they were looking after the little sides who train hard for 9 months, get thumped in the first round and that was that. But what has happened is the opposite. The back door allows the big sides to recover from a huge shock and come back stronger.

Don't get me wrong, i love the fact there are so many more games on - it makes it more interesting. But I miss the good oul days. You get beat and your out. Simple.

The only thing that needs to happen to the qualifiers in its current form is to sort out the schedule. All replays would probably have to be abolished.

For me though I'd love to see Provincial Championships at the start of the year, then an All Ireland Championship involving everyone, with a seeded draw based on the provincial championships - but no back door. This way we still get a lot of games, we still get shocks, we reward provincial winners and runners up, not punish them and Provincial Championships will mean something again.

(^ Just came off with that off the top of my head ^ )

[45 metres]

The results over the weekend say two things. First is that for the third year in a row the All Ireland champion will not be a provincial winner, we will have the sixth back door winner in ten years. Second is that along with the first thing, the provincial championships have now been devalued. Badly. Managers know that winning your province no longer helps you to win the All Ireland.

It can be easy to dismiss the results that mean the four All Ireland semi finalists this year did not even reach their provincial finals as a fluke. But if something like that happens next year, say only one provincial winner gets to the semis, then it will be time to have a serious look at how the football championship is run before provincial titles start becoming worthless and the whole thing becoming a shambles.

[ONeill]

The last 3 years ('08, '09 and '10) of the 12 semi-finalists, 9 have come from the qualifiers. Only Cork twice ('08 and '09) and Tyrone ('09) won their quarter finals.

Some will argue that the back doorers deserve it as they've been in the last chance saloon each time whereas the provincial winners only encounter that in the quarters for the first time.

But there's no doubt that playing every 7 or 8 days for a month has a team much more sharpened than the provincial winners who have been playing each other in training games for 3-4 weeks. It definitely was the case for Tyrone in 2008.

I think Mickey's solution was that only 2 teams emerge from the qualifiers. The 4 provincial winners play each other (say this year Tyrone v Roscommon and Kerry v Meath). The two winners (Roscommon and Meath) progress to the semis whereas the 2 losers play the two teams who emerged from the qualifiers a fortnight later.

[Farrandeelin]

I still rather the winner takes it all no-backdoor. However, it is refreshing to see new teams winning through this year all the same.

[ardal]

May it not be due to the fact that the back door has been too successfulhas brought on too many counties ie. more get to play more games in the AI championship and can build on it year to year. I think it's great for the sport on average throughout the country. I also vaguely remember that statistically it's 50/50 ref winning province vs back door

[ONeill]

I think it's 21-19 (semi-finalists) in favour of the back door with the last five years showing a heavy back door percentage.

[ardal]

So it would appear that counties that haven't won their province have a slight upper hand. If memory serves me right, Armagh were until recently the most prolifc team in Ulster championships, but this didn't convert to Sams. How would the other counties who got through to finals or won sam without winning the province first feel if the system went back to the old.

[ONeill]

Saw this on Twitter -
http://twitpic.com/2aqk1z

[Shrewdness]

The results over the weekend say two things. First is that for the third year in a row the All Ireland champion will not be a provincial winner, we will have the sixth back door winner in ten years. Second is that along with the first thing, the provincial championships have now been devalued. Badly. Managers know that winning your province no longer helps you to win the All Ireland.

It can be easy to dismiss the results that mean the four All Ireland semi finalists this year did not even reach their provincial finals as a fluke. But if something like that happens next year, say only one provincial winner gets to the semis, then it will be time to have a serious look at how the football championship is run before provincial titles start becoming worthless and the whole thing becoming a shambles.

I think the provincial championships have only been devalued to the more successful counties, because to them, those titles are only seen now as a stepping stone to Sam.
Then, if they don't win Sam, the provincial title tends to get overlooked.

However, this is not the case with the ''weaker'' counties.
Do you think the Connacht Title means any less to Roscommon tonight, just because Cork beat them today. Nobody outside the county will ever know what that title means to the people of Roscommon.

If Sligo had won it, the same would have applied.

Imagine if Louth hadn't been the victims of daylight robbery in the Leinster Final and had claimed their first title in whatever number of years it was.
Would they feel the Leinster Title was devalued because they didn't win Sam?

This idea of provincial titles being devalued is a reaction from the so-called 'elitist' teams to failing to kick on and win Sam.
But, you know, there are other counties out there to whom winning a provincial title means everything.

[Hound]

Every team has one chance to win their provincial championship.

Every team has one chance to win the All Ireland championship.

Its completely fair and open.

[45 metres]

The results over the weekend say two things. First is that for the third year in a row the All Ireland champion will not be a provincial winner, we will have the sixth back door winner in ten years. Second is that along with the first thing, the provincial championships have now been devalued. Badly. Managers know that winning your province no longer helps you to win the All Ireland.

It can be easy to dismiss the results that mean the four All Ireland semi finalists this year did not even reach their provincial finals as a fluke. But if something like that happens next year, say only one provincial winner gets to the semis, then it will be time to have a serious look at how the football championship is run before provincial titles start becoming worthless and the whole thing becoming a shambles.

I think the provincial championships have only been devalued to the more successful counties, because to them, those titles are only seen now as a stepping stone to Sam.
Then, if they don't win Sam, the provincial title tends to get overlooked.

However, this is not the case with the ''weaker'' counties.
Do you think the Connacht Title means any less to Roscommon tonight, just because Cork beat them today. Nobody outside the county will ever know what that title means to the people of Roscommon.

If Sligo had won it, the same would have applied.

Imagine if Louth hadn't been the victims of daylight robbery in the Leinster Final and had claimed their first title in whatever number of years it was.
Would they feel the Leinster Title was devalued because they didn't win Sam?

This idea of provincial titles being devalued is a reaction from the so-called 'elitist' teams to failing to kick on and win Sam.
But, you know, there are other counties out there to whom winning a provincial title means everything.

If the main teams aiming for All Ireland success decide that it is not important to win your provincial title then the provincial titles are going to get devalued, like it or not.

To counties like Roscommon and Louth, provincial titles may still hold some value because of how rare they claim them, but that has always been the case.

Before the back door Kerry held the Munster title as a step to the All Ireland but it was the ONLY step to an All Ireland semi final therefore they had to play at their best in the Munster Championship. Now the Munster Championship is a sideshow because it is not of importance to Kerry or Cork. If Limerick, Tipperary, Clare or Waterford now win a Munster title, you won't be able to dismiss the fact that Kerry and Cork have one eye on bigger things if they are capable of winning the All Ireland. Sad, but that is true. If Clare win another Munster title with the present system, it will not hold the same prestige as in 1992.

Senior provincial titles have done nothing for Dublin in the last few years. They done nothing for Tyrone except in 2003. Kerry won the All Ireland last year through the back door. Cork right now are progressing nicely. Time to accept that the provincial senior medal is not what it once was.

[Puckoon]

As Tyrone would attest themselves in 2005 - the back door system definitely helps a team build momentum. Momemtum is understated in this current format. Having experienced the taste of defeat as master Mickey alluded to yesterday can be a positive experience to draw from if a team is lookin to get a run and get their stars alligned.

[45 metres]

As Tyrone would attest themselves in 2005 - the back door system definitely helps a team build momentum. Momemtum is understated in this current format. Having experienced the taste of defeat as master Mickey alluded to yesterday can be a positive experience to draw from if a team is lookin to get a run and get their stars alligned.

^^^^^
THIS

[mountainboii]

I think Mickey's solution was that only 2 teams emerge from the qualifiers. The 4 provincial winners play each other (say this year Tyrone v Roscommon and Kerry v Meath). The two winners (Roscommon and Meath) progress to the semis whereas the 2 losers play the two teams who emerged from the qualifiers a fortnight later.

Not for the first time, Mickey actually borrowed this idea from Big Joe. I'll be surprised if his column next Friday isn't pushing this idea.