All Ireland Quarter Final Tir Eoghain V Dublin

[Fuzzman]

As I said before fair play to the Dubs but now the dust has settled since Sat and I've got to watch it again since my attitude to it has changed a few times.

Having read most of the stuff on here but not all of it I am not that surprised to see quite a lot of "neutrals" ie not Tyrone,Dublin or Kerry people who are glad to see both teams knocked out and naturally enough are very fast to write their obituaries as they pray we're finished now, with the usual aul lines of too many miles on the clock, been to the well too often, lost the hunger, legs gone etc etc

Even Spillane himself, who I met briefly outside Hill 16 pub, was quick to have a line ready about buying an old Rolls Royce or a newer car. As I said to a lad who told me that, depends what the new car is like.

Tyrone for one have had the bones of this team kicking around now for 7 or 8 years. Some have been here longer and some only new into the team. Mickey is considered by many the best manager the country has had for a long long time yet many are criticizing the decisions he made on Saturday. Maybe he was too loyal to some and this question has been asked before. One question on many people's lips is, should we not be playing at least one if not both McMahons around the MF area and not as defenders.

The main thing people had issue with was the short kickouts and how it put our defense under pressure
It was a risky strategy some said and caused problems further up the field but I think for the most part it worked
We know for some time now that our MF struggles against BIG men so would it not make sense to kick yer own kickouts to a free man if he so exists rather than constantly risk a 50/50 or even 60/40 strategy like Harte said in the Irish News today.
Our usual form of attacks come from turnovers in the Half back line or even full back line anyway and with everyone so comfortable on the ball then it seems smarter to ensure you keep possession from your own kickouts.

The part that worried me was how many times we carried the ball into tackles or groups of players. If this was a tactic to win frees then it didn't work cos loads of time our aul pal Coldrick didn't wanna know and my totally biased outlook thought the ref was giving Dublin much handier frees than he was giving us.
The tackles near the start of Dooher around the neck/shoulder and then a slap to the head in my opinion lay down the marker immediately that this type of tackle was not going to be cautioned during the game and so set the scene. If that had of been done by say Gormley or Ricey on BB would it have been yellow.

Of course it is much to easy to come in and say ah ye sour grapes, ye Cant take yer beating and are trying to blame the ref which is fair enough but as a man said to me today. The fact is they kicked 18 wides. Some of those were under pressure but most were either bad execution, wrong decision making to shoot from there(greedy glory hunting) or just bad luck with the Ref on the Hill playing a blinder too. (Oh no not more sour grapes Fuzz)

For me this is where Tyrone lost the game plain and simple. They had more than enough chances to put Dublin away, especially with Penrose's goal chance. But here's what is funny and I think of this every single year.
Back in 2005 when we beat Kerry, the aftermath was all about how Tyrone have established a new format to play and they've a great underage setup and blah blah blah. Whereas had Kerry had pipped us we would have been written off as a one team wonder and another Ulster has been. Results are everything and not how you played or how well you played up til that point. On the Sunday game they talked for weeks about how Monaghan could even go on to win the AI and will beat Tyrone but then after Sat the usual question was asked. Well how good was Monaghan then after all.
Whereas had Penrose goaled instead then that question would not have been asked.

So here we are again, Tyrone go into the last 10 mins with Mugsy looking lean, mean and on fire. Dublin fans and most of the country thinking ahh Tyrone will just tighten the screw now and knock over a few more points and Dublin will need to maybe get a new manager again next year from outside the county. Kernan or Trapper Tony perhaps

Instead Dublin's shot for goal comes off the same goal frame but this time lands in the FF's hands
He can't miss from 10 yards and kicks his first score of the day before anyway can lay a hand on him.
Suddenly Tyrone's world comes crashing down around them and everyone is deemed tired, too old, too many miles on the clock, lacking the hunger any more. All because a few things go wrong for them in the last few minutes.

Saying all that thouh. the main thing that came to my attention when I watched it all again on telly was the workload Dublin put in this time. They are much more of a "TEAM" with a hard work ethic and dare I even say it and curse ye for the next day but suddenly they have belief & bottle with not so many flash Harrys and more grafters and lads that will put themselves on the line for their county. Someone told me Gilroy would have those qualities as a shrewd business man and so it looks to have come true. They might not been Cork but I think Cork are in for a hell of a battle and now Dublin have got back that important ingredient. BELIEF.

I will dread the craic I'm gonna get at work tomorrow but I'll also HALF enjoy it as the Dubs bring a lot to the AI table and they needed a boost in the arm (resist) as they've been getting a lot of hidings recently

On a side note.
There is yet another family wedding on my wife's side later this month. (There has been one every year since my own wedding in 2006) and its nearly always around AI final weekend. There is often good banter between myself, the only Tyrone man and a Kerry man who is part of the Kerry setup.
This year both of us might be on the one side fighting off the mad Dubs with young Macauley's da no doubt making a beeline for me as soon as the meal is over. He's waited a long time for the Dubs to beat us as he didn't know me in 1995

Finally I will say that I went into this game much too confident and even cocky. I like 95% of everyone else I met didn't give Dublin a hope of winning this game. Truth be told had we taken half of what we missed then we wouldn't have lost but fair play to Dublin for hanging in there to be in a position to get that lucky goal and punish us for our erratic shooting.
I hope they can go on and win it now so the lads & lassies I work with aren;t so whingy every year.

[tyssam5]

There's been a lot of criticism about the short kick-out strategy, but wasn't it a qualifier a few years ago when Wexford beat Armagh using short kick-outs all game? I seem to remember that after the game Armagh came under a lot of fire for allowing these short kick-outs uncontested and not pushing up on Wexford. But it worked out for Wexford and added to Jason Ryan's reputation as one of the up-and-coming managers in the game.

So I agree with Fuzz in that too many definitive statements are made on the back of certain games. There often a lot of fluctuation in individual and team performances, ref, luck etc. Fact is, and this is intended as no slight on Dublin, if Tyrone played the Dubs again next week I'd fancy them to win.

[Declan]

Must admit I didn't see that performance coming. I know Tyrone kicked it away but the hunger and determination shown by Dublin was fantastic and irrespective of how the semi goes that restored my faith in the panel. Bernard certainly was the star turn but for me the man of the season is McAuley - yes he frustrates at times as he gives away possession to easily for my liking but epitomizes everything positive about the team. Would still have serious doubts but will enjoy the victory as it was a long time coming.

[rrhf]

2 things -
Tyrone showed during the national league they could not play the short kick out effectively - arguably it cost them their division 1 status.
Tyrone are more than capable of winning games with 30% midfield possession, the problem I felt with Saturday was that much of the fizz was out of key Tyrone personnel like the Mc Mahons by the time they had worked things out to beyond the half back line.  When a break ball occurs and its put out to the wing to our flying half and full backs it adds spontanaeity to Tyrones play, that was simply not there on Saturday - it was too laboured calculated, and predictable.  Justin, Joe Conor or Ricey as we know getting possession on the outside of midfield at full tilt is a much more difficult proposition to dela with than a series of 1-2s going accross the field 30 yards from their own goal.  The wides were calamitous and can be easily reasoned as why we lost the game,  but we set out to change the winning formula against Monaghan and we changed our game plan to defensively (safely) play a team with a full back line that had already been torn assunder (4 goals) at least once in the championship.     

[Zapatista]

So back to work today and I have to say the Dubs are delighted with themselves. They're in a great mood which is making the slagging tolerable. Fair balls to them.

[supersarsfields]

2 things -
Tyrone showed during the national league they could not play the short kick out effectively - arguably it cost them their division 1 status.
Tyrone are more than capable of winning games with 30% midfield possession, the problem I felt with Saturday was that much of the fizz was out of key Tyrone personnel like the Mc Mahons by the time they had worked things out to beyond the half back line.  When a break ball occurs and its put out to the wing to our flying half and full backs it adds spontanaeity to Tyrones play, that was simply not there on Saturday - it was too laboured calculated, and predictable.  Justin, Joe Conor or Ricey as we know getting possession on the outside of midfield at full tilt is a much more difficult proposition to dela with than a series of 1-2s going accross the field 30 yards from their own goal.  The wides were calamitous and can be easily reasoned as why we lost the game,  but we set out to change the winning formula against Monaghan and we changed our game plan to defensively (safely) play a team with a full back line that had already been torn assunder (4 goals) at least once in the championship.   

The main problem with the short kick outs was that it knackered our back line. It's not easy to work the ball from your own 21 yard line all the way to the other side. And I thought a few of the defenders looked plain fooked in the last 15 mins. 

[rrhf]

exactly - that football cannot be sustained.  It expends too much energy, men take too many hits as well.  Tyrone won the all ireland in 08 after hub won the ball won in midfield and ran through with explosive pace for a goal.  You can overcomplicate the thing and I felt that happened on Saturday and in the training leading up to it, because thats obviously where these ideas are cultivated.     

[BennyHarp]

What disappointed me most about Sunday was Mickey's lack of faith in his players to get the job done. He may as well have taken an advert out on the big screen saying his midfield wasn't good enough and by constantly playing the extra defender it shows a lack of faith in the defence. Does any Tyrone fan on this forum honestly believe that if we had just attacked Dublin 15 v 15 that we don't have better players than the dubs and wouldn't have beaten them? Sometimes mickey's system become s the overriding factor and he must prove himself a master tactician every game! Leaving a man in from of full back line, playing penrose as 3rd mid fielder and kicking short kick outs enabled the dubs to stifle the life out if cavannagh and then o' neill. Had we pushed up on them and really attacked at pace I think we would have won that game easy! Having said that, mickey knows best and was probably trying something with Cork in mind- again, very dangerous!!

[boo_yaa]

his "system" sucked donkey dick!!

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

This year both of us might be on the one side fighting off the mad Dubs with young Macauley's da no doubt making a beeline for me as soon as the meal is over. He's waited a long time for the Dubs to beat us as he didn't know me in 1995

Well maybe remind Michael Dara's Da that he's not just an Ulster man, and not even that he's a Donegal man, but that he's actually an Inishowen man, i.e., Inis Eoghain Uí Néill... he of Tír Eoghain renown 

[DUBSFORSAM1]

2 things -
Tyrone showed during the national league they could not play the short kick out effectively - arguably it cost them their division 1 status.
Tyrone are more than capable of winning games with 30% midfield possession, the problem I felt with Saturday was that much of the fizz was out of key Tyrone personnel like the Mc Mahons by the time they had worked things out to beyond the half back line.  When a break ball occurs and its put out to the wing to our flying half and full backs it adds spontanaeity to Tyrones play, that was simply not there on Saturday - it was too laboured calculated, and predictable.  Justin, Joe Conor or Ricey as we know getting possession on the outside of midfield at full tilt is a much more difficult proposition to dela with than a series of 1-2s going accross the field 30 yards from their own goal.  The wides were calamitous and can be easily reasoned as why we lost the game,  but we set out to change the winning formula against Monaghan and we changed our game plan to defensively (safely) play a team with a full back line that had already been torn assunder (4 goals) at least once in the championship.   

Tyrone played with McMahon in front of his fullback line the whole game and leaving Freeman as the free man. Monaghan just didn't have the forwards to attack Tyrone though

[Coddler]

It's hard to be impartial on the ref but I 'd have to argue with the Fuzzman that the Dubs got the balance of the decisions. Agreed that McConnell could have got a yellow for the first tackle on Dooher as he caught him with a slap around the head but Fitzsimons got a yellow and conceded a free soon after for nothing. He only jumped to intercept an overhead pass which had been miss hit and collected by Dublin. So we had a cornerback on a yellow (a precarious position as Mickey knows) and lost a point to make it 6-3. The next Tyrone free was also of the softish kind. I can't remember the freecount but it was heavily in Tyrone's favour at the end.

I do agree though about the Dubs getting the slice of luck . Penrose's crossbar effort at the end of the 1st and the rebound dropping into O Gara's impish hands for our goal were both key moments. I'm not sure we would have won if either had not fell in our favour.
The Dubs tend to be way too critical of the team in defeat and a bit too cocky in victory. I'm glad we're not playing Tyrone gaian next weekend as that team is far from finished and I'd fancy them to take us next time out..

[Pups]

I disagree that the dubs are cocky in victory. Sweeping statement.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

Fair play to the Dubs, deserving winners. I felt before it was nicely setup for them after a misleading score against Meath then some momentum built up in the qualifiers whilst for Tyrone we still werent sure just what level the team were at. Whether or not its the end of this Tyrone team will depend on retirements. You would imagine Dooher would be calling it a day but it will be interesting to see what happens with the 97/98 minor lads. Jordan and McGuigan have both made comments in recent weeks which suggested they were thinking about calling it a day. If however some of those lads give it another couple of years and we get the best of the recent minor winning teams in next to them then Tyrone could still be a force to be reckoned with.

Well done again to the Dubs and good luck to them for the rest of the summer.

[rrhf]

I think Jordan has been consistently excellent this year - I would hate to think he would be thinking that way.  Let the guys have their club football and then recruit again next year.  Im very disappointed looking back on this year that so few players have been blooded.  Coney, Mc Nabb, Mc Kenna, and others were apparently training aids looking back on it.  We felt last year that new blood was needed and we simply didnt bring them onto the field and we could be further on now had that happened.  Davey has been a great servant to Tyrone, Dooher one of if not the greatest servants, and I also think these guys were overused this year but I guess on hindsight neither should have really been playing full games.  Its hard to take a knife to the panel when so many have given so much and achieved so much but if that knife dosent come out we will be having this conversation, which we also had last year, in a years time again I fear.  As I said the biggest move I would love to see would be Harte taking the under 21s next year and supervising the progress of these young fellas - if not that Canavan and Chris Lawn, or indeed Munroe.    From memory Mc Guigan, Gourley, Mc Anallen, Gormley, Mc Gee etc were taken in early to the panel but were also given serious championship game time in the early 2000s.  They were by no means ready but it took those experiences al a Derry quarter final, Sligo, winning a national league etc to bring them on.  Im confident that Tyrone can get back up there sooner rather than later but Id have been much more confident if Kyle Coney had been there and nabbed a couple of points on Saturday even in defeat, of if Mc Kenna had came on instead of Mc Ginley,  I know these lads are raw but what age is Donie Shine and these guys. Darren Fay was 19 when he won an all ireland in 96.