Battle of the Boyne - Meath Vs Louth - Leinster Final 11/7/2010

[seafoid]

It should be possible to keep this thread going for another 300 posts.

Just link Joe Sheridan with some unsavoury character and post it and wait for the Meath lads to ascend their high horses
and -  voilà . Repeat ad nauseum brought on by thoughts of the glaring injustice to which Louth were subjected. Bring in parallels with other suffering people and repeat Joe Sheridan thoughts and bingo. 

There is more mileage in bringing in previous examples of Tyrone suffering in Croke park. The extent to which counties nurse these grievances is very instructive.

Perhaps the GAA needs a truth and reconciliation commission where all of the pain stored from the past can be laid out on the table.   

[Lar Naparka]

Have you watched a TV or read a paper since Sunday?

I have indeed, Jinxy, I have indeed.
I have not seen, heard or read anything that would allow me to answer Hardy's question, (Would you punch an opposition player?) with a straight no.
My only assumption was that he had a Louth player or players in mind when he posed this question. But my answer applies equally to both sides; I saw nothing to suggest that a Meath player approached an opponent in order to punch him either.
Now, on to your original response to my original response to Hardy: (Phew! This is heavy going.)
People have tried to make out that Joe Sheridan was laughing in Louth players faces, however it was only after an elbow from Brian White and some other player squaring up to him that he smiled, as much to say "What are you doing?".
Here, you are stating as fact that Joe wasn't actually smiling and asking a simple question, in bemusement presumably, of White and the other player. In the light of his subsequent interview shortly after the game, where he smiled once more and came up with a c**k and bull story to explain why he felt his goal was legitimate, I feel I have good reason to doubt your take on what happened between him and White. I don't know and once again, I'm suggesting you don't either.
That's all and so I can't give Hardy a straight no, going by this incident.
I did state in my first post on this topic that I felt it was regrettable that both Sheridan and Peter Fitzpatrick were interviewed on TV so shortly after the end of the game. Both came out with comments that could be taken as provocative by the respective opposing sides.
It would have been better all around if they had been given more time to compose their thoughts.
Finally, why do you feel that Mark Ward would be well within his rights to retaliate in any way he saw fit to the punch he received when you can't possibly know what led up to this punch?
In that case, could it not be said that the Louth player was also acting within his rights and reacting to what he perceived as provocation from Ward?
Once again, I'd need evidence before I'd comment on this incident one way or the other.
Look, I'm merely acting as Devil's Advocate here and I'm not a partisan Louth supporter either. I still won't answer Hardy's third question with an unequivocal 'no.'

PS Colm O'Rourke is my favourite TV analyst, followed closely by Kevin McStay.
I agree with what they had to say on TSG.

[Hardy]

Have you watched a TV or read a paper since Sunday?

I have not seen, heard or read anything that would allow me to answer Hardy's question, (Would you punch an opposition player?) with a straight no.
My only assumption was that he had a Louth player or players in mind when he posed this

For clarity, I didn't. I had spectators clouting players in mind.

For the record, there are pictures showing Mark Ward being punched in the face by a spectator in a red jersey. I usually don't rely on still photographs as evidence, but seek this one out and make up your own mind.

Once again, where are you coming from in putting out the suggestion that Ward did something to provoke the assault, other than being a Meath player? Even if he did, and that's not even suggested by any other source, unless he struck a blow first there would be no justification for a spectator physically assaulting him. So why sneak in the "provocation" suggestion. Have you made up what he might have said yet, as you were able to do for Joe Sheridan?

Sorry if my reaction seems a little extreme, but I'm slightly alarmed that you and people who should know better are behaving like children at a Saturday matinee cheering on the white hats against the black hats and feeling free to say anything hat comes into their heads about the baddies. The media are at it as well. Kenny was asking yesterday how Meath players could look their children in the eye. The sort of caricature baddie stuff you're  suggesting (but, carefully, not actually stating) is in the same category. I'm just trying to balance things up a bit for the monsters. They're quite nice when you get to know them and only eat their children under extreme provocation.

[seafoid]

Good man Hardy. Was Mark Ward not punched in the face by a meath player who had swapped his jersey with a louth player on account of his being no shrinking violet? these are the things you can't tell from a still photo.   

[Rossfan]

The boys in Croker knew how this would play out. The damage done to the GAA in Louth doesn't really matter to them.

That is the saddest aspect of the whole affair .
Sure what matter if we lose another County to "other codes" once we didnt have to take on any responsibility or make any decision on anything.
Leadership howareya 

[Hardy]

Good man Hardy. Was Mark Ward not punched in the face by a meath player who had swapped his jersey with a louth player on account of his being no shrinking violet?

It's as good as any of the other made-up suggestions, that's for sure.

[Lar Naparka]

Lar, I'm amazed at you. I thought you were a level-headed, fair commentator, but you seem to be getting carried away with wild and whirling words. Where are you getting tis stuff from? Players shake hands with each other after every match. Why are you suggesting that on this one occasion in your experience the Meath players were only seeking to taunt  their opponents by offering the hand? That's just made up, as far as I can see with no basis whatever. I certainly haven't heard the suggestion anywhere else. What would you be sayiing if the Meath players had not offered their hands?

Then you set up a straw man argument to give yourself something to shoot down. "Can you honestly swear that Sheridan wasn't laughing in Louth players' faces? I certainly cannot and I'd suggest that you have no way of knowing either." Well if you certainly cannot, where did the argument and suggestion come from? Can you honestly swear you didn't rob Swans of Curraha last week?

"He might just as easily be saying, "Tough shit, losers."". Indeed. He might just as well have been saying "I have an awful toothache". Again, where do you get that from? In fact I didn't see him move his lips at all except to smile. Is that an unacceptable reaction to being elbowed in the chest? What would your reaction, or invention of motivation have been if he had punched him, which would be the reaction of a less restrained player.

"I'd make sure I had facts and not allegations before I did anything." Your sense of humour hasn't deserted you anyhow.

When did you stop beating your wife?

Jaysus, Hardy calm down!
I've just come back online to try and settle Jinxy down, only to find you in even more pugnacious mode than he.
I did not set out to make allegations of any sort against either side. Full stop!
You posed a straight question and I attempted to give you a considered answer.
Once more and with feeling; I would never walk up to an opponent and belt him on the kisser or give him a kick up the rock and roll or anything of the sort.
No way, Jose and all that.
With me so far?
Now I took it that you had in mind some incident that happened in the immediate aftermath of the game. Furthermore, I assumed you feel that at least one Louth player launched an unprovoked assault on at least one Meath player. I think both are quite reasonable assumptions, given that you come from Meath and in light of the controversy that has erupted.
Now, if I had been a player, from either side, I still would not have walked up to an opponent to deliberately clock him. If I thought some hoor was only trying to provoke me, I could conceivably lash out in retaliation but I'd probably be too wrecked to even notice his presence.
That's all I said and that's all I meant. I am genuinely taken aback at the reaction of both you and Jinxy to what I wrote. Both of you may not be paranoid, but you sure seem to think that the whole world is out to get you.
If I had been a Meath player, I would have given the very same answer.
Anything that happened on the field immediately after the game is a matter of conjecture not definite fact. Therefore, I did not and will not take sides as I don't know what went on.
But I did gently suggest to Jinxy that,m as he doesn't seem to know either, I can't possibly accept his assertion that Joe Sheridan was only smiling as if to say, "What are you doing?" He may well have been but he could also be rubbing salt in the wound, as it were.  I don't know and I merely suggested to Jinxy that he doesn't appear to know either.
Likewise with Mark Ward; if one were to accept that he was well within his rights to act as he saw fit, without knowing if he was provoking or retaliating, the Battle of the Boyne would have been re-enacted on the spot.
I REPEAT THAT I DID NOT AND WILL NOT TAKE SIDES ON THIS ONE.
Imo, there is one hell of a difference between assuming that some Meath players may well have been proactive in their approach and stating that the same is a definite fact.

Finally, thank you for your compliments at the beginning of your post. I have some nice things to say about you in response.
I have said several times before that I place you in joint first place at the top of my list of 'must read' posters. You're right up there alongside Evil Genius, a man who fully lives up to both parts of his handle.
Come to think of it, you live up to your alias also. You're one hardy hoor to fight your corner!
(I think I should pm EG for the craic to see if he has any thoughts on this barney.)

[the Deel Rover]

Finally, thank you for your compliments at the beginning of your post. I have some nice things to say about you in response.
I have said several times before that I place you in joint first place at the top of my list of 'must read' posters. You're right up there alongside Evil Genius, a man who fully lives up to both parts of his handle.
Come to think of it, you live up to your alias also. You're one hardy hoor to fight your corner!
(I think I should pm EG for the craic to see if he has any thoughts on this barney.)

ah come on now Lar enough of the sweet talki a couple of weeks ago your top 2 were Eg and sligonian, now stick to your guns nothing better than a battle between a mayo man and 2 meath bucks your doing a stirling job keep her lit   

[Hardy]

Just for clarity, Lar, my original post was responding to someone who said that (as a supporter, I presumed) they'd go mental if their team was in Louth's position. I responded by asking would they (as a supporter) go so mental as to attack the referee, punch players, etc. What I had in mind all the time was the people who ran amok on the pitch (one of whom appears to have punched Mark Ward), not the Louth players.

As Louth players didn't come into my point, anything they might have said or done doesn't arise. I have no evidence of any assault by Louth players on Meath players. The only place I heard that suggested was when Kenny said on the radio yesterday morning that his "sources" suggested this happened and, further, that this was a motivation for the Meath players' attitude to (the mythical notion of) a replay. I posted that report here - not the allegation - the fact that Kenny stated the allegation. On reflection, I shouldn't have, as the allegation itself had no more status than rumour.

[Jinxy]

Jesus.
Is this thread still going? 

[Hardy]

Just by way of diversion - did anyone see a big (about 20 ft. by 10 ft.) red-and white chequered banner on Sunday, with the words "No surrender to the <something>". It was hung over the front of the premium level, section 530 - i.e. just on the canal side of halfway, during the presentation ceremony. We were sitting in the Premium level, towards the back as about five fellas went down to the front and unfurled it. The <something> word was the only bit we didn't see. I assumed it was probably something political and the look of the people involved lent to that impression.

I couldn't see it on the TV coverage. It should have been visible all over the stadium apart from The Hogan Stand. Anyone?

[stephenite]

No idea Hardy, but those lads chasing the ref after the game all looked like Sinn Fein members to me

[demusicman]

No idea Hardy, but those lads chasing the ref after the game all looked like Sinn Fein members to me

What does a Sinn Fein member look like?

[Jinxy]

They always carry a load of coats under one arm.

[Lar Naparka]

Finally, thank you for your compliments at the beginning of your post. I have some nice things to say about you in response.
I have said several times before that I place you in joint first place at the top of my list of 'must read' posters. You're right up there alongside Evil Genius, a man who fully lives up to both parts of his handle.
Come to think of it, you live up to your alias also. You're one hardy hoor to fight your corner!
(I think I should pm EG for the craic to see if he has any thoughts on this barney.)

ah come on now Lar enough of the sweet talki a couple of weeks ago your top 2 were Eg and sligonian, now stick to your guns nothing better than a battle between a mayo man and 2 meath bucks your doing a stirling job keep her lit 

Janey, I've been caught out!
What I really meant to say is (shades of Brian Cowan here) that Hardy and EG are extremely able and level - headed debaters who can present their respective arguments in a logical and well- organised manner. (Memo to myself at this point: Cut it out at once, Lar.)
Their arguments are always interesting to read and especially so when they lose the plot, as they often do.
By comparison, I always head straight to Sligonian's latest post as they are all very interesting to read- because he never seems to have a plot to begin with so he can't ever lose it. He's always  OTT from start to finish.

There! How's zat?
Do you think I've managed to please everybody?