Get ready to wave them flegs - Lily Windsor's coming

[AQMP]

I note according to the BBC this morning, the Guards have rounded up the usual suspects and armed Metropolitan Police officers will be on the streets of the Free State during the Nellie Dean's visit.

I note I may have caused offence and I withdraw the rhyming slang term "Nellie Dean" to refer to the Queen.

[trileacman]

This thread is pure troll fodder so I regret wading into it but I just find so many aspects of this funny. The ability on all sides to politicise the visit of an octogenarian and twist it whatever way they wanted is unprecedented in the history of the state. God forbid that Mary McAleese should ever invoke so many arguments and counter-arguments when she visits a neighbouring  country.
Those now in favour of the visit, Myers, Kenny, The Mail, are no better than a crowd of snivelling, hovel-ling West Brit gobshites. Joe Brolly must be getting paid the twenty silver pieces to write for such a shit-whack of a publication. These people are so fond of talking about the nation "maturing" and how we "matured as a nation" playing the Saxons in Croker. Is this the same "mature" nation that was buying bog-holes development sites for 200,000 euro a pop? Were youse as mature when the EU/IMF whipped your ass and threw yis in the playpen? bolix's , da lot.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

'Free State' for some of us northern brethren is a description of reality as we see it, and must not be confused with the rather derogatory term 'Free Stater', i.e, the 26 county state is free from British rule, unlike the 6 county statelet, which has nothing to do with the pro-British Free Stater disposition of the Irish Civil War.

The term 'Ireland' cannot be invoked other than in a 32 county context, and the Irish Constitution will corroborate that, as it's currently constituted.

So, (some) 26 county lads, lose the preciousness about the 'free state' moniker, and (some) 6 county lads, lose the preciousness about their preciousness 

The Pro-Treaty side were not pro-British, they were pragmatist Irish nationalist republicans. Be they right or wrong, they were not pro-British.

So they received the 18 pounder field guns from the British to bombard the Four Courts during the Civil War because they were anti-British? Yeah, right! 

[Donnellys Hollow]

'Free State' for some of us northern brethren is a description of reality as we see it, and must not be confused with the rather derogatory term 'Free Stater', i.e, the 26 county state is free from British rule, unlike the 6 county statelet, which has nothing to do with the pro-British Free Stater disposition of the Irish Civil War.

The term 'Ireland' cannot be invoked other than in a 32 county context, and the Irish Constitution will corroborate that, as it's currently constituted.

So, (some) 26 county lads, lose the preciousness about the 'free state' moniker, and (some) 6 county lads, lose the preciousness about their preciousness 

The Pro-Treaty side were not pro-British, they were pragmatist Irish nationalist republicans. Be they right or wrong, they were not pro-British.

So they received the 18 pounder field guns from the British to bombard the Four Courts during the Civil War because they were anti-British? Yeah, right! 

Were the irregulars not anti-democratic considering they ignored the Dáil's ratification of the Treaty? (also ratified by the people in the 1922 election)

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Were the irregulars not anti-democratic considering they ignored the Dáil's ratification of the Treaty? (also ratified by the people in the 1922 election)

That's a totally different issue, though the Republicans in the Civil War might say that they took their mandate from the 1918 election and the Provisional Government of the Irish Republic declared thereon, and would have attached no validity to the Treaty that annulled that Government.

[Donnellys Hollow]

Let me get this straight then.

Someone who supported the Treaty was pro-British (your words). What does that make the anti-Treaty side? Pro-Irish?

The provisional government, Dáil Éireann, was established on the back of the 1918 election. Dáil Éireann ratified the Treaty. If the anti-Treaty side were truly republican then surely they should have accepted Dáil Éireann's ratification of the Treaty?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Someone who supported the Treaty was pro-British (your words). What does that make the anti-Treaty side? Pro-Irish?

When 'Free Stater' is invoked in a derogatory sense, then yes, that would imply pro-Britishness, or at least a predisposition to accept Britain's perspective on Ireland. Why should the opposite of being 'pro-British' be 'pro' anything?

The provisional government, Dáil Éireann, was established on the back of the 1918 election. Dáil Éireann ratified the Treaty. If the anti-Treaty side were truly republican then surely they should have accepted Dáil Éireann's ratification of the Treaty?

Not as clearly defined as that in that the legitimacy of the Dáil's remit to pass the Treaty was called into question -- De Valera claimed, for example, that Dáil members who voted for the Treaty were betraying their oath to the Republic.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Someone who supported the Treaty was pro-British (your words). What does that make the anti-Treaty side? Pro-Irish?

When 'Free Stater' is invoked in a derogatory sense, then yes, that would imply pro-Britishness, or at least a predisposition to accept Britain's perspective on Ireland. Why should the opposite of being 'pro-British' be 'pro' anything?

The provisional government, Dáil Éireann, was established on the back of the 1918 election. Dáil Éireann ratified the Treaty. If the anti-Treaty side were truly republican then surely they should have accepted Dáil Éireann's ratification of the Treaty?

Not as clearly defined as that in that the legitimacy of the Dáil's remit to pass the Treaty was called into question -- De Valera claimed, for example, that Dáil members who voted for the Treaty were betraying their oath to the Republic.

I don't believe for a moment that the men who fought the British and went on to form Cumman na Gael or other pro-treaty persons were pro-British, maybe a few ex-Unionists. They took a pragmatic appraoch to the situation at the time of the treaty. I believe that had Collins lived that Ireland would have built a big and fairly well armed army. Many things could of happened, such as a Free State (yes it was then) invasion in the North resulting in a United Ireland under the Tricolour or if we lost the Union Jack. Had we waited until the late 1930's or 1940's we may have fought alongside the Axis to gain control of the North or with the Allies as a bargained exchange of Northern Ireland to the Republic.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Were the irregulars not anti-democratic considering they ignored the Dáil's ratification of the Treaty? (also ratified by the people in the 1922 election)

That's a totally different issue, though the Republicans in the Civil War might say that they took their mandate from the 1918 election and the Provisional Government of the Irish Republic declared thereon, and would have attached no validity to the Treaty that annulled that Government.

Yes but the treaty was singed on behalf of the 1918 government.

[mylestheslasher]

I see Kevin Myers is outraged that he has not been invited to kiss Lizzie's ring:

Anti-IRA figures not on royal list
Peace activists overlooked for Queen's visit in favour of TV personalities and celebrities
   
By LIAM COLLINS

Sunday May 15 2011

The British and Irish governments have snubbed prominent anti-terrorist figures who fearlessly campaigned against the Provisional IRA.

The guest list includes such celebrity personalities as Amanda Brunker and Lorraine Keane, as well as television presenter Terry Wogan, chef Rachel Allen, Nama developer Harry Crosbie and model Erin O'Connor.

In marked contrast, leading peace campaigners such as Chris Hudson MBE and Barbara Fitzgerald CBE, and media figures such as Kevin Myers, Eoghan Harris and Ruth Dudley Edwards, have not been invited to any official events relative to the visit this week of Queen Elizabeth.

The British Embassy in Dublin, which is hosting the centrepiece event at the National Conference Centre on Dublin Quays, has defended the guest list. This will be a concert featuring the Chieftains and Mary Byrne, amongst others, and hosted by Gay Byrne.

"We wanted to reflect the range of sporting, cultural and business links between Britain and Ireland," said Richard Cushnie of the British Embassy.

Guest lists for most other events are organised by the individual hosts, which include Trinity College and the GAA.

The State dinner for the Queen will be held in Dublin Castle and hosted by the President. The Department of the Taoiseach is involved in arrangements for this and some of the other events.

The arrangements are such that every government minister will get to attend at least one function at which the Queen will be present.

But many high-profile figures have been overlooked for the historic event, the first official visit of a British monarch since King George V in 1912.

Leading peace campaigner Chris Hudson last night expressed "amazement" that many of those directly involved in the peace process had not been invited to any of the official functions surrounding the Queen's visit, which begins on Tuesday.

"I remember [the late Progressive Unionist Party leader] David Ervine saying to me 'remember, when this is over other people will be collecting Nobel prizes and we'll just have to go for a pint'," said the Peace Train founder yesterday.

"What seems to have happened is that the politicians take charge of things -- they delivered the political process . . . but they didn't deliver the peace process," said the former Communications Works Union official, who is now Rev Chris Hudson of the All Souls Unitarian Church near Queen's University in Belfast.

"Official Ireland has never given us any recognition for anything we've done -- and it doesn't look as if it wants to start now."

Rev Hudson, who comes from Blackrock, Co Dublin, put himself in danger by his work with hard-line Loyalists in the North. He succeeded in bringing David Ervine on board the peace process, an event which transformed Loyalist attitudes to Dublin.

But despite being awarded an MBE by Prince Charles and on behalf of the Queen, he and many other who were directly involved in bringing warring communities together have not been invited to any of the high-profile events at the conference centre, Dublin Castle and Memorial Gardens.

"I didn't want it for myself, but an invitation to some of these historic events might have been some modest recognition for the people who created the space for the peace process to happen," Rev Hudson said.

Author and journalist Ruth Dudley Edwards said she was disappointed that Kevin Myers and Eoghan Harris had not been invited to the event.

"Both have shown immense courage over the years -- especially in relation to fearless denunciation of paramilitarism," she said.

Mr Myers was a particularly surprising omission given his almost-singlehanded role in making it acceptable to honour the thousands of young Irishmen who died in the World War One.

A source close to Mr Myers said yesterday: "He is not so much disappointed as angry. It stinks to high heaven that those who took the heat when it was far hotter than it is now in relation to the paramilitaries have been snubbed. As a country we cannot even get these small things right."

Members of the public will also be kept away from the Queen during the royal visit. Security arrangements yesterday included a plan to keep all members of the public away from any area in which the Queen will be present, which will be heavily cordoned off.

Yes the Sunday Indo shit rag is in terrible turmoil today with the news that the great Myers, Dudley Edward and Eoghan Harris are not on the invite list. Your article above is one of two. The other was penned by that shit comic, terrible interviewer and part time anti republican journalist Brendan O Connor. The reason these people are not invited is simple. If the general public were to know that Myers, Dudley Edwards and Harris were in the same place at the same time there would surely be an attempt to bomb the place. It is in the interest of her majesty that these people are kept well away from her.

[red hander]

'A source close to Mr Myers said yesterday: "He is not so much disappointed as angry. It stinks to high heaven that those who took the heat when it was far hotter than it is now in relation to the paramilitaries have been snubbed. As a country we cannot even get these small things right.'

Aw, diddums ... made my week that has.  For 'a source close to' read the great man himself.  What an arrogant cnut to state 'I took the heat when it was far hotter than it is now in relation to paramilitaries and I have been snubbed'.

Lizzie dodged a bullet there all right, it would have been like an orgy watching him, Harris and Ugly Edwards trying to shove their tongues up her jacksee ... there'll be enough other west Brits doing that without those three adding to the shame

[Orangemac]

Aw, diddums ... made my week that has.  For 'a source close to' read the great man himself.  What an arrogant cnut to state 'I took the heat when it was far hotter than it is now in relation to paramilitaries and I have been snubbed'.

Cheered me up as well. Obnoxious git, what heat did he take? As for Harris what has he ever done apart from help get Bertie reelected?

I have no problem with the Queen coming but if she was in the back garden I wouldn't open the curtains. It is a bit pathetic seeing these dipsticks livid that they weren't invited to the royal family arse lick.

Isn't Ryan Tubridy supposed to be showing the Queen around? Didn't his aunt/mother show JFK around? Little changes amongst the elite in Ireland.

[Nally Stand]

I see the Irish Mail on Sunday had a column by Éamon Ó'Cuív, emphasising his family ties to De Valera as some sort of justification of his views, outlining to us all why this visit is so welcome. Funny how there was no column inches given to Honor Ó Brolchain, (grand-niece of Joe Plunkett), who said she was initially indifferent to the royal visit but now finds the idea ill-judged, or to James Connolly-Heron (great grandson of James Connolly) who has stated (in the indo believe it or not) that:

"The places that she is visiting, the Garden of Remembrance and Croke Park, it's very inappropriate and insensitive. The Garden of Remembrance honours all those who fought and died for Irish freedom and that's where the Queen will be laying a wreath. But that dream has not been realised...There's a contradiction there. Given that the Queen of England still occupies part of this island is it not strange that she is honouring those who fought and died? I don't think we are at the stage for that sort of recognition......The itinerary is very strange. We have a strange image of the Queen laying a wreath in honour of those patriots. Is the Queen in favour of Irish unity? Croke Park is even more bizarre. The first people who should be honoured should be the people who died on the field.....Again it throws up a contradiction of the expenditure, the national monument (16 Moore St) lies in a state of dereliction while at the same time we invite the Queen to honour patriots.....It's a bit unnerving that the Queen will come and lay a wreath. On what basis is she doing it? It can't be the same as another head of state."

No harm to the Mail on Sunday but it's an awful rag. Even after he assembly elections, it devoted one page to the election results......on page 18. Hard to beat good All-Ireland coverage 

[Ulick]

Her Majesty The Queen Elizabeth II,
Buckingham Palace,
London SW1A 1AA, United Kingdom

10th May 2011

Your Majesty,

As your majesty will be visiting our community shortly, and being aware of your family's expressed interest in promoting good community relations, may we ask a small favour of you?

In particular when visiting our community you will be calling at Croke Park, headquarters of the Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA). Historically the GAA has been a strongly Irish Nationalist sporting association set up some years after the 'great famine' in Ireland with the goal of energising local communities and helping in the fight against landlordism at a time when evictions were commonplace.

Indeed as an association, and up until recently, the GAA would have been unlikely to have extended to a member of the British Royal family a warm welcome on visiting their headquarters in Croke Park. However in these changing times in the relationship between our peoples we now believe that your majesty is regarded with deep affection by many in GAA Headquarters, unlike their attitude to our local community, and it is in this regard that we hope your majesty may be able to be of some great assistance.

Despite our community enduring great inconvenience and hardship during the many major events hosted in Croke Park, that has helped Croke Park to report income of over €58 million in successive years, Croke Park officials have now sent an eviction notice to our Community & Handball Centre members, copy enclosed. This Centre is a vital asset to our local community that has invested almost €4 million in its development and maintenance over the last 40 years. There is huge opposition to this attempted eviction by Croke Park, and Croke Park's proposed alternative development has been opposed by all 17 local politicians and 10 residents committees representatives at a recent national planning authority oral hearing. I include a copy of our Newsletter that shows how vital an asset this Centre is to our community.

Your Majesty we would be very grateful if you could let the Croke Park GAA officials, that you may happen to meet, know that you are aware of our plight and that it would be only right that we be treated with the same respect and decency that such as Arsenal's stadium officials treat their local community.

While Croke Park officials have instructed other GAA communities not to comment on your visit this does not affect us and we trust your majesty will not mind our asking for your assistance in this matter.

Yours sincerely,

Eamon O'Brien.
Chairman, Croke Park Streets Committees.

[AZOffaly]

For f**k's sake. If he really sent that letter to Buck House he needs a kick in the arse. If it's a pisstake then it's a good one.