Gilmore for Taoiseach?

[muppet]

Don't know muppet, I think perhaps you're being blinded by your mayo glasses - i can't think of any (non-mayo) person I've met and discussed politics with who thinks that Enda is capable, as Hardy points out, it's irrelevant if he is/was or not, the perception is that he wasn't.  To lose the last election was extremely poor imo (i know fg trot out the figures showing the improvement, my bollox, he took them back to their historical norms after an awful showing in 02) and to continue to receive similar approval ratings to one of the most unpopular taoisigh of all time, shows that the public at large don't rate him.  I'd be very surprised if Bruton isn't the next taoiseach, it'll be good for the country to see the old political establishment broken up with new blood to the fore, oh wait...

Question for you.

Imagine the shoe was on the other foot and and FF had FG on the ropes with the public baying for blood, bank reports coming out, dire unemployment figures etc, all the holes lining up in the proverbial Swiss cheese. Then imagine Lenihan or whoever launched a coup. Do you think he would win, or be strung up?

Elections are won at grass-roots in this country, regrettably, but that is the reality. Kenny did the work at grass-roots level which is why FG members see him in a way the country doesn't. Bruton doesn't have the grass-roots and neither did his brother.

Back to the question in the previous paragraph, the FF grass-roots IMHO would string him up for saving the enemy.

I'm now beginning to lean towards both of them having their careers Enda'd (sorry couldn't resist).

[Bogball XV]

I don't think any of them will make a move yet, they'll show Bruton support though to make sure they land a nice job.  The only one stupid enough to challenge could be Deasy, who, God love him, reckons he should be the next taoiseach.

As for timing etc, it might seem like an overreaction to a poll, but apparently this has been in motion for a while now, they decided the opinion poll was the opportunity to strike,  the motion of no confidence in biffo was never in danger of winning, thus it was largely irrelevant.  I heard Gormley on yesterday trying to talk up the stupidity of this move by FG and Bruton, so it can't be all bad, incidentally, has he made any comment on the untenable position the taoiseach should be in following on from last weeks reports?

[Bogball XV]

Muppet, I see where you're coming from, but the govt aren't really on the ropes, the people may be baying for blood but, so what, seems to be the coalition attitude.  We're heading to the summer break which is the ideal time for a new party leader to come in and re-organise the party, this was probably going to happen in the near future regardless of the poll.

The other thing to remember is that FF have their fair share of splits and leadership coups over the years, it's only really since Bertie the enforcer took over that they've settled down.  People in politics are invariably power crazed and ambitious, why else would they be there (to serve the nation )?

[muppet]

I don't think any of them will make a move yet, they'll show Bruton support though to make sure they land a nice job.  The only one stupid enough to challenge could be Deasy, who, God love him, reckons he should be the next taoiseach.

As for timing etc, it might seem like an overreaction to a poll, but apparently this has been in motion for a while now, they decided the opinion poll was the opportunity to strike,  the motion of no confidence in biffo was never in danger of winning, thus it was largely irrelevant.  I heard Gormley on yesterday trying to talk up the stupidity of this move by FG and Bruton, so it can't be all bad, incidentally, has he made any comment on the untenable position the taoiseach should be in following on from last weeks reports?

Did you expect him to expressl his awe at its brilliance?

This week the Government tried to limit questions in the Dail because of how badly they thought the bank reports would be received. There also have been dire unemployment figures announced, 12%, not that anyone noticed but they would have anticipated bad press at least on that.

They must have been giggling with glee as they watched this blunder unfold. Even the Sinners will be annoyed at how Saville wont get the press it deserves down south.

BTW as for Mayo tinted glasses I have lived in the constituencies of both men, I've met them both and they are both fine individuals. It doesn't change my opinion of either the strategy or the timing. For once I agree with Gormley.

[myball22]

Bruton had to make his move now. There was no way FG were going into the next general election with Enda Kenny in charge. It would too dangerous to let him up against Cowen for debate, even with all the cards, he could still lose!!! The last general election was up for grabs up until he went head to head with Bertie in the TV debate and lost (also the late late show patronising fawning over Bertie during the last week of the campaign was another factor)

He couldn't wait because you cannot change party leader one year out from an election as it smells like panic. See 2002 and FG for that.

I know the timing seems poor but the Government will hang together until the end, the MAD principle holds here. And there will soon be further reports, unemployment figures to bash the government with.

I think if they pick Bruton as leader and get another crediblt spokesperson on finance, they will be guaranteeing themselves in Government next time around. This blood letting will be forgotten by the elecorate in 6 months and there is plenty of time to highlight the new leader before the next election. Enda Kenny is a nice guy but lacks credibility and people will not vote for him as leader of this country.

[muppet]

Bruton had to make his move now. There was no way FG were going into the next general election with Enda Kenny in charge. It would too dangerous to let him up against Cowen for debate, even with all the cards, he could still lose!!! The last general election was up for grabs up until he went head to head with Bertie in the TV debate and lost (also the late late show patronising fawning over Bertie during the last week of the campaign was another factor)

He couldn't wait because you cannot change party leader one year out from an election as it smells like panic. See 2002 and FG for that.

I know the timing seems poor but the Government will hang together until the end, the MAD principle holds here. And there will soon be further reports, unemployment figures to bash the government with.

I think if they pick Bruton as leader and get another crediblt spokesperson on finance, they will be guaranteeing themselves in Government next time around. This blood letting will be forgotten by the elecorate in 6 months and there is plenty of time to highlight the new leader before the next election. Enda Kenny is a nice guy but lacks credibility and people will not vote for him as leader of this country.

Are you kidding? The FF media will remind us of it every day till then and destroy him as they did his brother, DuKes, Noonan and Kenny. And Richard will have helped them by giving them a bigger stick to beat him than they had with Kenny. Kenny may not survive without Bruton but Bruton is history after this.

Open the book on the next man.

[muppet]

Hey Barelegs, any chance you could change the title of this thread as the momentum has changed.

Might I suggest:

Et tu, Brute?

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

This poll is the end of Enda Kenny.

Yip thats the big story not the end of FF 

Anything you'd like to say about this mayogodhelpus? Was I right?

Dont jump the gun like Bruton, wait til Thursday !

Gilmore must be some man, Fine Gaels self-destruction and Fianna Fails freefall all fall under Gilmore for Taoiseach.

All I say last non-Leinster Taoiseach - Jack Lynch (not that Charlie prat  ) Those Dubs/Leinster lot are the real Gombeen man I'm all right Jack crowd.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Actually I lied (seriously I'm not a FF in disguise) I have more to say. In my opinion Richard Bruton has done a great disservice to the Fine Gael party by his actions. Muppet is right and the grassroots Fine Gaelers support Enda ahead of Bruton and there is lots of anger and not just here in the Green & Red & Blue  I see Enda winning on Thursday but he could be seriously damaged by this. Richard if he loses will lose his place as the natural heir. I'm glad in away that this has liberated me to say I have always thought that Lucinda Creighton was a useless self-serving waste of space. Oh Deasy if its illegal to smoke in the Dail bar to smoke then its illegal, feck of to Fianna Fail if ya want to be a gombeen. I think Bruton is incredibly naive, if he becomes FG leader, roll on Fianna Fail spin about how much better the party was under a proven election winning and TD gaining leader under Kenny, lads ye where stupid to dump him. On the other side I see him getting an easier ride as he is a Leinsterman and an almost Dub. Gilmore (well the thread is about Gilmore) will start getting asked to answer questions instead of Bertesque populism and getting attacked for his West of the Shannon roots (obviously not overtly) once the Irish media actually see him as a credible Taoiseach. They do not see him as such, otherwise Fianna Fail New Irish Press Org of Ryan Tubridy, Joe Duffy, Brendan O'Conner, Eoin Harris, Ray D'Arcy, Irish Independent, RTE would be tearing him apart. They still see a badly wounded Enda Kenny and an on very dangerous ground Richard Bruton way ahead him as likely next Taoiseach. Even a Fine Gael party suffering from multiple gunshot wounds will always be a more credible leader of any Irish government than the fittest of Labour parties or their jingoistic leaders.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Hey Barelegs, any chance you could change the title of this thread as the momentum has changed.

Might I suggest:

Et tu, Brute?

Richard Iscariot

[Rossfan]

.

All I say last non-Leinster Taoiseach - Jack Lynch .

Albert was a Ros man. 

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

.

All I say last non-Leinster Taoiseach - Jack Lynch .

Albert was a Ros man. 

Roosky - Longford

[Bogball XV]

.

All I say last non-Leinster Taoiseach - Jack Lynch .

Albert was a Ros man. 

Roosky - Longford

like enda he lived in Dublin

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

.

All I say last non-Leinster Taoiseach - Jack Lynch .

Albert was a Ros man. 

Roosky - Longford

like enda he lived in Dublin

So did I, not a bleeeeeednnn Dub though.

[Pangurban]

The prize for chump of the year must surely go to Richard Bruton, for an astounding piece of political mismanagement. He has displayed his complete ineptness to lead a party, never mind a country. Sure he has spitefully damaged Kenny, but he has damaged his party even more