James Horan Appointed Mayo Manager 2011

[macdanger2]

I think that the review into underage coaching in the county should be high on the agenda for the county board. Not to villify those who are involved but to provide coaching courses to the fellas who train the underage teams at club level so that they'll be able to coach young players in the basic skills of passing, tackling, blocking and scoring

[rosnarun]

I think that the review into underage coaching in the county should be high on the agenda for the county board. Not to villify those who are involved but to provide coaching courses to the fellas who train the underage teams at club level so that they'll be able to coach young players in the basic skills of passing, tackling, blocking and scoring

cant argue with that. bt this does goe on in mayo and every other county coaching is taken much more serioulsy now than 10 15 years ago. and it is up to clubs and GAA member to ensure that these course are taken up and used in training. i seriously thunk you have the wrong target in aiming at the under age structure. most counties would kill for the type of underage 'Success' mayo have

forverhopefull
as rtregard your first point its hardly the county underage teams role to pick laeds that are not yet in a position to shine are intercounty level. if the potential  is there the responsibility lies with the Club and the overall county coaching structures rasther than an inter county manager  to develop the talent. there are 100's of under 14 plyers for example every year with the potential to be good senior but for various reasons fall by the wayside .
Even in sports with professional academies and Scouts a stike rate of one in ten of youth to professional player is considered excellent . and you still end up with the likes of antony stokes and Gary Breen as  success'

[stephenite]

I think that the review into underage coaching in the county should be high on the agenda for the county board. Not to villify those who are involved but to provide coaching courses to the fellas who train the underage teams at club level so that they'll be able to coach young players in the basic skills of passing, tackling, blocking and scoring

cant argue with that. bt this does goe on in mayo and every other county coaching is taken much more serioulsy now than 10 15 years ago. and it is up to clubs and GAA member to ensure that these course are taken up and used in training. i seriously thunk you have the wrong target in aiming at the under age structure. most counties would kill for the type of underage 'Success' mayo have

forverhopefull
as rtregard your first point its hardly the county underage teams role to pick laeds that are not yet in a position to shine are intercounty level. if the potential  is there the responsibility lies with the Club and the overall county coaching structures rasther than an inter county manager  to develop the talent. there are 100's of under 14 plyers for example every year with the potential to be good senior but for various reasons fall by the wayside .
Even in sports with professional academies and Scouts a stike rate of one in ten of youth to professional player is considered excellent . and you still end up with the likes of antony stokes and Gary Breen as  success'

That's all very true, I was earmarked as a future all star at the age of 12, but by 15 I was earmarked as shite, and I'm pretty sure coaching would not have made that much difference

I coulda been a contender

That all said, and in a more serious vein there was a plethora of talent available at schools level around the county when I was at the end of secondary school, and the structures that were in place in the schools were just awful. Not trying to apportion blame here, it just appeared to be they way it evolved. In the final two years at my school there the likes of David Brady, Tom Nallen, Dessie Sloyane, Declan Sweeney, Colm Foody, Brian Ruane, John Healy who had all or would all represent their county and clubs at various National levels over the coming years. Added to those names there was a stellar list of dependable club players from around the area that also went on to win Senior and provincial club medals - but we never won a provincial title at senior level. I'm not sure how it works in the schools now - but this would be the type of thing (and just one example) of what I'd like to see up for discussion

[The Konica]

This review is the the thing that I think has the potential to be the funniest of all ...

Who is good enough to do it?
A Mayo person?
An outsider?
Who?

It's will be a worse coverup than the Genesis report if it ever gets off the ground ...

[Lar Naparka]

This review is the the thing that I think has the potential to be the funniest of all ...

Who is good enough to do it?
A Mayo person?
An outsider?
Who?

It's will be a worse coverup than the Genesis report if it ever gets off the ground ...

Then again, it might not.....
The fact that our much-loved and respected county board is willing to conduct a review of any sort reminds me of what Dr Samuel Johnson once remarked to Boswell, his biographer:
"Sir, a woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on his hinder legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all."

[blast05]

Time to beat the blues and cast your minds back......

So come on Willie Joe and Kilgallon for Mayo,
Dermot Flanagan and Sean Maher and John Finn
Jimmy Browne will light the fire and we'll raise the Sam Maguire,
John O'Mahonys men are really on the move !

You know you won't be able to get it out of your heas all day 

[An Gaeilgoir]

Time to beat the blues and cast your minds back......

So come on Willie Joe and Kilgallon for Mayo,
Dermot Flanagan and Sean Maher and John Finn
Jimmy Browne will light the fire and we'll raise the Sam Maguire,
John O'Mahonys men are really on the move !

You know you won't be able to get it out of your heas all day 

Right boys, fight boys, steady as a rock,
we'll win the Sam Maguire and we'll fly it into Knock.

classic stuff!!!!!!!!. ..... some day hopefully the above will happen, what we would give for a Padden, Kilgallon, Maher, Browne today......................................

[AbbeySider]

There are 2 major flaws in Mayo football
1.
At all underage teams for mayo the strongest or the quickest or the fittest or the tallest lads are being picked. Not the player with the most potential for the future. They pick these players because of immediate impact in that underage year. Managers often pick on reputation as well as geographical location. The players with most potential are not being spotted and they are lost to Mayo football from a young age. Coaches at underage level for Mayo don't spot the talent that players may possess but needs work. They just pick the easier option and have ready-to-order footballers. These footballers are then on Mayo panels from U-14 up. Lads who may not be the fit or have developed physically are lost to Mayo football. They go off to college, start drinking, put on weight etc. If they had made a Mayo panel and were coached they would have a different mindset and look after themselves better. We only take early bloomers in Mayo. There is very little provision for late bloomers. We need to able to spot the talent better - not just pick the flashy bleached haired corner forward who has pace to burn and does all the flicks. We need to find the lads who do the basics right consistently - who have good positional sense, who can kick pass a ball accurately. They might not be super athletes but you can change easily. This change must come from the county board. They should be outlining this approach to managers and coaches.

2.
The players who do shine at underage level because they are stronger etc. that do go onto the senior panel don't seem to be coached. Some other poster used the example of Mayo and Sligo recently on this issue. Sligo don't have a great pick so they have to coach alot of players to improve them. Mayo has such a good pick that we have footballers who need very little coaching at underage level. However theses players reach a level that they never push on from. Tom parsons is an example. He doesn't seem to have improved at all. Is he being coached. Was coaching him neglected at underage level because his natural athleticism made him stand out already?

Good points there Foreverhopeful, we agree on something! 

I posted about this a few pages back, coaching in this county needs to be addressed.
Thats not to say that the current coaches of Bord nA nOg trams are being scapegoated, its not actually their fault that the courses are not enforced and the education and information isnt there.
Im not sure if there is a coaching officer in the county but I think it needs a full time committee to adopt practices of getting the standard of coaching up to scratch. The summer Cul camps are a step in the right direction but its the coaching day in, day out that needs to improve.
The likes of Tyrone and Sligo have tiny picks compared to us yet their structures were heavily invested in and they are reaping the rewards.

Im with stephenite, McDanger2 and rosnarun on this. But I dont think all of our problems of today rest in what happened to current Mayo footballers up along the way, but it could be a factor in the actual pick of players in the county that are good enough or have potential for Inter County football.

[Zulu]

Tom Humphries had a good article in the Times about England's loss to Germany and in it he referred to the differences in the development of young English players compared to Germany. He pointed out that Munich develop young players from the Munich area and teach them how to play in the system (like Ajax) and in different positions. This is what needs to be done in Mayo and will help put them ahead of teh curve as I don't think any county is doing this yet. The problem is Mayo need to look at underage development as a process rather than the U16's winning thier competitions and the minors winning AI's. No young player should be marked out as a full back or midfielder at 13 or 14, instead then should be given a chance to play many positions and taught how to play these roles. As the develop their best position will evolve itself. Mayo shouldn't look to Tyrone but to Europe and Australia for guidance on how to structure underage development.

[Foreverhopeful]

i seriously thunk you have the wrong target in aiming at the under age structure. most counties would kill for the type of underage 'Success' mayo have

Thats the problem. We're targeting minor titles and U-16 and U-21 titles when the Senior is the most important. Winning a Senior All-Ireland will inspire more lads to take up football and continue to improve than Mayo winning every underage title under the sun. We are winning these titles because we have a huge pick in Mayo and we cherry pick the most athletic, strong, fast etc. player. We should be developing players who do the basics well, show an appetite for hard work etc. I'm sorry for using Tom Parsons as an example because i don't want to seen as picking on one player. He just stands out as the example of our flawed system. He has reached a plateau in his career and he is only 22. He stood out at every age group in Mayo because he was taller and faster and had a good catch. His skills were neglected because he was already seen as being "complete" as a footballer. He's nowhere near it. It's hard on him because if he was in Kerry or Tyrone he'd have the work rate, the defensive side of the game etc.
Tyrone play the same system they play at senior level at all underage levels. By the time players are senior they know the system. Their trained in how to defend. It might not be everyone's cup of tea the type of football but at least they have a plan in place. Not saying Mayo should copy Tyrones style of play but it demonstrates our need for a plan.

I do think Football is neglected in Schools. They are their for over 180 days of the year. Plenty of days for training there! A coaching officer should be put in place to co-ordinate things in the schools. Lads need to be training more in school. It's a perfect opportunity to develop discipline in regular training

[AbbeySider]

Is it just me or does anyone else think the local media have blood on their hands too?

Its frustrating to see the local media coming out this week with harsh criticisms of JOM yet during his tenure the hard questions were never been asked. IMO they are very guilty of often not calling it properly and not asking serious questions when they needed to be asked.

Its left to the likes of James Horan and Maughan and a couple of pundits to be harsh at the right times and calling it properly in the local papers, but the majority of Sports writers pander to the county managers and hype players and dont portray games properly.

Some examples include the big write-ups Mayo players got as minors let alone as seniors when the questions like why players are playing out of position, or why such a player is even playing for Mayo should have been asked.

Even club match report never tell the true story. A team could be bet off the park yet Sports writers do more talking about the losing team and their feats to balance out the article. IMO its not how it should be written.

Mid-West to also have their faults. The commentary is so Mayo biased, sometimes I think im watching a different game. I laugh out loud when they pick the man of the match and go through every Mayo player and what a brilliant game each and every player had. Not only that but they promise that every young player have huge futures etc.

If we had impartial and neutral critical writers at least then the spoofing by O Mahoney in the last few years, the strange calls and tactics by himself, Dempsey, Connelly and Holmes wouldnt have been let away so lightly.

[AbbeySider]

i seriously thunk you have the wrong target in aiming at the under age structure. most counties would kill for the type of underage 'Success' mayo have

Thats the problem. We're targeting minor titles and U-16 and U-21 titles when the Senior is the most important. Winning a Senior All-Ireland will inspire more lads to take up football and continue to improve than Mayo winning every underage title under the sun. We are winning these titles because we have a huge pick in Mayo and we cherry pick the most athletic, strong, fast etc. player. We should be developing players who do the basics well, show an appetite for hard work etc. I'm sorry for using Tom Parsons as an example because i don't want to seen as picking on one player. He just stands out as the example of our flawed system. He has reached a plateau in his career and he is only 22. He stood out at every age group in Mayo because he was taller and faster and had a good catch. His skills were neglected because he was already seen as being "complete" as a footballer. He's nowhere near it. It's hard on him because if he was in Kerry or Tyrone he'd have the work rate, the defensive side of the game etc.
Tyrone play the same system they play at senior level at all underage levels. By the time players are senior they know the system. Their trained in how to defend. It might not be everyone's cup of tea the type of football but at least they have a plan in place. Not saying Mayo should copy Tyrones style of play but it demonstrates our need for a plan.

I do think Football is neglected in Schools. They are their for over 180 days of the year. Plenty of days for training there! A coaching officer should be put in place to co-ordinate things in the schools. Lads need to be training more in school. It's a perfect opportunity to develop discipline in regular training

I agree with the gist of that Foreverhopeful but I think the bit in Bold is a huge, huge problem in Mayo football.
I wouldnt say we necessary pick the physically strong players, we are more fond of the tiny nackey player who wins soft frees at club level and gets big scorelines from frees. Come to inter county level and they are flung around the place and bulldozed.

County managers pick a lot of guys based on athletic ability rather than natural talent.

We should be making talented guys fit, not trying to make fit guys footballers.
(you can write that one down for later  )

Aidan Campbell and James Kilcullen are examples of lads that slip through the net like that.

This quote from Noel Connelley froze me in my seat:
"The likes of Chris Barrett, Ger Cafferkey, Donal Vaughan... they're the future of Mayo football. They're athletes."
Not because the aforementioned players are bad footballers, but the mentality is backwards.

[The Konica]

Mayo need to get someone (or more than one person) who has won an All Ireland as a coach/manager or as part of a backroom team in the past 10 years and get them in to the county to do a review.

It can't be someone from Mayo, they need to be independent.

They ideally should have a wide range of experience in GAA and/or other sports to offer a proper insightful review with recommendations that can be applied to the county set up after the conclusion.

[RedandGreenSniper]

The big concern with this review is that people will either be overly defensive trying to protect their own corner or will be offensive in a biased way because of some perceived slight they received - our lad wasn't picked and whatever small flaw caused this becomes the only thing that is wrong.
Everyone need to be big enough to accept their own flaws and man enough to take criticism on board and try to be distant enough to see the big picture. Agendas need to be put to one side.

[The Konica]

Couldn't agree more.

This is why it needs to be an outsider.

The other reason it needs to be some who has won recently is that training and professionalism have changed so much in the past 10 years in the GAA it needs to be someone with some foresight.

Regarding a new Manager ... I'd even be so cheeky as to pinch someone from another county, (like a McGeeney or his assistant) Aidan O'Rourke or Martin McElkennon at Monaghan or even Paul Grimley - Monaghan didn't hang around when Armagh twiddled their thumbs...

But get the review done first.

The guy I'd get to the review would be John McCluskey who trained Armagh to the All Ireland with Joe Kernan and then trained Derry to the National League with Crozier and was at Wasps last season.
He knows what it takes to win at the highest level and would have learned a lot of new ideas from his stint at Wasps. He'd be independent and provide a shrewd analysis of the state of the county compared to other counties in the North and else where.

I can't think of anyone else who's actually won something, had international experience and isn't tied managing to a county.

The only other one might be Tohill, only he's not won anything in 20 odd years and his first stint as a manager hasn't happened yet!

Not that I expect the review to be anything other than a complete fiasco anyway!