Israel Attack Humanitarian Ship, 10 men killed

[Hardy]

Another view

Yes and a view shared on more than one occasion by a very select
few here on the board...John and his alias' should be along shortly
to put a lid on it cause this type of material does little to aid the
ignorance and propaganda machine.

That was the first word that came to mind when I read that article alright. Propaganda.

No evidence to discredit the flotilla what-so-ever. I can just imagine an editor saying 'Just talk about the flotilla with multiple references to Hezbollah, the Assad regime, Bin Laden, al-Qaida, Iran etc etc etc..... that ought to do it'. 

Four legs good, two legs bad. My opinion is the truth, everything that disagrees with it is propaganda.

Do you seriously believe Christopher Hitchens is a propandagist for Zionism?

it reminds me of the family guy episode where Lois was running for Mayor and was losing the crowd - she just said ''9/11 was bad'' - the crowd went nuts everytime

I think Nally's point is valid it's trying to make links without dealing with the issue in isolation imo

I'm surprised that's all you (both) can take from that article. If you've read anything else he's written about the Israeli/Palestinian issue, I can't imagine you'd take him for a propagandist or a biased commentator. Indeed your own reaction (BM) reminds me more of the "Family Guy" effect you mention. Criticise Hamas and you must be pro-Israeli. Point out Hamas's unsavoury alliances and you are pro the Gaza blockade. It seems very knee-jerk to me.

Of course Tyrone's Own is the other side of the same coin.

The world is in colour, not black and white.

[Tyrones own]

Of course Tyrone's Own is the other side of the same coin.

Actually that's incorrect...I don't condone what and how Israel go about their business, I've just been branded that way by repeatedly questioning the logic and the hypocrisy, none to different to what you are doing here recently 
Of course met with similar unsubstantiated attacks and articles quoted that by their very length run the risk of not being read from the usual suspects.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Of course Tyrone's Own is the other side of the same coin.

Actually that's incorrect...I don't condone what and how Israel go about their business, I've just been branded that way by repeatedly questioning the logic and the hypocrisy, none to different to what you are doing here recently 

Obama = All Bad; GWB = All Good [TO's philosophy].

Seems to be fairly black and white to me! 

[Nally Stand]

Another view

Yes and a view shared on more than one occasion by a very select
few here on the board...John and his alias' should be along shortly
to put a lid on it cause this type of material does little to aid the
ignorance and propaganda machine.

That was the first word that came to mind when I read that article alright. Propaganda.

No evidence to discredit the flotilla what-so-ever. I can just imagine an editor saying 'Just talk about the flotilla with multiple references to Hezbollah, the Assad regime, Bin Laden, al-Qaida, Iran etc etc etc..... that ought to do it'. 

Four legs good, two legs bad. My opinion is the truth, everything that disagrees with it is propaganda.

Do you seriously believe Christopher Hitchens is a propandagist for Zionism?

it reminds me of the family guy episode where Lois was running for Mayor and was losing the crowd - she just said ''9/11 was bad'' - the crowd went nuts everytime

I think Nally's point is valid it's trying to make links without dealing with the issue in isolation imo

I'm surprised that's all you (both) can take from that article. If you've read anything else he's written about the Israeli/Palestinian issue, I can't imagine you'd take him for a propagandist or a biased commentator. Indeed your own reaction (BM) reminds me more of the "Family Guy" effect you mention. Criticise Hamas and you must be pro-Israeli. Point out Hamas's unsavoury alliances and you are pro the Gaza blockade. It seems very knee-jerk to me.

Of course Tyrone's Own is the other side of the same coin.

The world is in colour, not black and white.

Or, in the view of the article, support the flotilla and you support international terrorists and dictators.

[Tyrones own]

The flotilla is a mere symbolic focal point hiding the real agenda,
The destruction of Israel, you're fooling no one anymore.
Are you sailing yourself this time around Nally 

[mylestheslasher]

There are a whole range of different groups from different countries on the flotilla. There are irish politicians, there are civil rights groups, on a previous flotila there was even a jewish survivor of a nazi death camp. Of course, there are likely to be people with more extreme views towards israel (that does not mean I suspect there to be people on board with violent intent). The idea of the flotila is to break an illegal siege which leaves men, women and children living in poverty. The article above stated none of this but blathered on about iran, terrorists etc, citing no evidence to back it up. The only terrorists I came across when I look at the flotila are the ones that came on board the last one and murdered people. The same terrorists that sabotaged an Irish boat, an act that could have endangered the lives of Irish citizens. But sure Israel has nothing but contempt for our sovereign country when it steals our passports to carry out illegal assinations and places spies in their embassy in Ireland. But its all an anti jewish conspiracy after all so they can do what ever the hell they like.

[Hardy]

Yes. It's a black and white world. I am right. You are wrong. You're a terrorist. I'm a freedom fighter. Capitalism good, socialism bad. Left wing right, right wing wrong. Palestinian and Israeli families deserve differing levels of sympathy for the deaths of their children. Greysteel a terrorist outrage; Kingsmill "shouldn't have happened". Bloody Friday a terrorist outrage; Bloody Sunday a security operation. 9-11 a terrorist outrage; shooting civilians from helicopters brings democracy to Iraq. Libyans supported; Syrians abandoned. I've chosen the Palestinians/Israelis (tick as appropriate), therefore everything they do is right and justified; everything their enemies do is evil and depraved.

It's not much different, really, to Manchester United good, Liverpool bad.

[Nally Stand]

The flotilla is a mere symbolic focal point hiding the real agenda,
The destruction of Israel, you're fooling no one anymore.
Are you sailing yourself this time around Nally 

Yes thats right, the real aim of the flotilla is the destruction of Israel 

Will you be ziplining out of a helicopter onto one of the boats yourself this time around Tyrones Own?

[Banana Man]

Another view

Yes and a view shared on more than one occasion by a very select
few here on the board...John and his alias' should be along shortly
to put a lid on it cause this type of material does little to aid the
ignorance and propaganda machine.

That was the first word that came to mind when I read that article alright. Propaganda.

No evidence to discredit the flotilla what-so-ever. I can just imagine an editor saying 'Just talk about the flotilla with multiple references to Hezbollah, the Assad regime, Bin Laden, al-Qaida, Iran etc etc etc..... that ought to do it'. 

Four legs good, two legs bad. My opinion is the truth, everything that disagrees with it is propaganda.

Do you seriously believe Christopher Hitchens is a propandagist for Zionism?

it reminds me of the family guy episode where Lois was running for Mayor and was losing the crowd - she just said ''9/11 was bad'' - the crowd went nuts everytime

I think Nally's point is valid it's trying to make links without dealing with the issue in isolation imo

I'm surprised that's all you (both) can take from that article. If you've read anything else he's written about the Israeli/Palestinian issue, I can't imagine you'd take him for a propagandist or a biased commentator. Indeed your own reaction (BM) reminds me more of the "Family Guy" effect you mention. Criticise Hamas and you must be pro-Israeli. Point out Hamas's unsavoury alliances and you are pro the Gaza blockade. It seems very knee-jerk to me.

Of course Tyrone's Own is the other side of the same coin.

The world is in colour, not black and white.

That's not what i'm saying Hardy, the way i view this whole situation is that there are people crammed into refugee camps for the last 60 odd years and are being denied basic aid by a far bigger power, it's like the big boy always taking the lunch money of the wee weak kid - it doesn't sit right with me

It would be the same if the shoe was on the other foot, i would support Jewish refugees in such a grave situation - I just cannot for the life of me understand how anyone would want to see other human beings reduced to living in rubble piles with no basic aid or food without a future - it's the attempt to link different groups to different causes, for me that is irreleavant and for a different day's discussion and what irks me, what i want to see is aid get through to people that need it but it's being blocked by an aggressor not some natural disaster

it's a crazy crazy situation and frankly i have no time for anyone who tries to mask this humanitarian catastrophe (brought about by Israel) by trying to say things like ''but hang on such and such is linked to such and such'' - it's pathetic and disgusting, the bottom line is there are people dying because they can't basic human needs....

[Hardy]

You make a good point, Banana Man. Most reasonable people believe Israel should be brought to book over its crimes against humanity in the Middle east and forced to a solution to the conflict by their paymasters in the US. Nobody believes it's wrong to bring aid to the suffering innocents of Gaza. But we mustn't forget in all of this that the people running Gaza itself are a pretty unsavoury bunch and will undoubtedly spin any humanitarian intervention by well meaning people as support for their nasty regime and dodgy alliances. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that is living in a black and white world, as I said.

My initial post was simply to present this point, as made by a reputable and honest commentator, who totally abhors Israeli policy, as far as I can tell from his writings. It was the knee-jerk reaction to his piece as propaganda, simply because it dared to look at another nuance of a very complex situation, that got me ranting.

[Banana Man]

You make a good point, Banana Man. Most reasonable people believe Israel should be brought to book over its crimes against humanity in the Middle east and forced to a solution to the conflict by their paymasters in the US. Nobody believes it's wrong to bring aid to the suffering innocents of Gaza. But we mustn't forget in all of this that the people running Gaza itself are a pretty unsavoury bunch and will undoubtedly spin any humanitarian intervention by well meaning people as support for their nasty regime and dodgy alliances. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that is living in a black and white world, as I said.

My initial post was simply to present this point, as made by a reputable and honest commentator, who totally abhors Israeli policy, as far as I can tell from his writings. It was the knee-jerk reaction to his piece as propaganda, simply because it dared to look at another nuance of a very complex situation, that got me ranting.

to be honest i think we are on the same page, I wasn't even getting into the politics of the whole set-up - I don't think anyone would know it properly unless they were brought up there, I just feel so sorry for those people

I know we grumble here about the recession and how tough things are that we can't afford the holiday to Tuscany or pay for the extension for the games room and it's on the long finger (piss taking a bit) but seriously our problems pale into the insignifcant when you compare what those people have to go through on a daily basis - e.g. hoking through rubble for building materials while we nip down to the builders yard, queuing up at the UN camp for medicine while we go to the GP's and complain we had to wait for an hour, fight for food rashins while we stand in the supermarket and toy between chicken or steak from the freezeri.

It's sheer madness that Israel are allowed to maintain this blockade - the west's silence on this is deafening...

[mylestheslasher]

There are some on here that would have you believe they take a neutral view of this situation and then describe that there is worng on both sides. However, the same people (and I can recall one in particular) would call palestinian stone throwers "terrorists" and Israeli armed forces are "an army". Hardly a neutral position. If a terrorist is someone who inflicts terror on someone well I think it is quite clear who the larger more dominant terrorist is in this conflict. Stones met with bullets, bullets met with bombs, bombs met with carpet bombings. Then there is the land grabing, the refugee camps in numerous countries the people with imported jews living in their old homes. Its hard to look in on this and say there are 2 equal sides to the story when there are clearly not. Its like the British army against the irish peasants or the nazis against the jews. There may be individual bad acts on both sides but overall the hugely unfair aggression is from the strong against the weak.

[Tyrones own]

There are some on here that would have you believe they take a neutral view of this situation and then describe that there is worng on both sides. However, the same people (and I can recall one in particular) would call palestinian stone throwers "terrorists" and Israeli armed forces are "an army". Hardly a neutral position. If a terrorist is someone who inflicts terror on someone well I think it is quite clear who the larger more dominant terrorist is in this conflict. Stones met with bullets, bullets met with bombs, bombs met with carpet bombings. Then there is the land grabing, the refugee camps in numerous countries the people with imported jews living in their old homes. Its hard to look in on this and say there are 2 equal sides to the story when there are clearly not. Its like the British army against the irish peasants or the nazis against the jews. There may be individual bad acts on both sides but overall the hugely unfair aggression is from the strong against the weak.

I'll assume that's directed at me even though you're ignoring me 
Tis hard to look at a people that were quite happy to vote into power and are governed by a terrorist organization any other way I'm afraid
*edit  notice the propaganda at work when he reduces the terrorists
Wearing suicide vests and firing shells into Israel as harmless auld "stone throwers" 

[seafoid]

You make a good point, Banana Man. Most reasonable people believe Israel should be brought to book over its crimes against humanity in the Middle east and forced to a solution to the conflict by their paymasters in the US. Nobody believes it's wrong to bring aid to the suffering innocents of Gaza. But we mustn't forget in all of this that the people running Gaza itself are a pretty unsavoury bunch and will undoubtedly spin any humanitarian intervention by well meaning people as support for their nasty regime and dodgy alliances. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that is living in a black and white world, as I said.
My initial post was simply to present this point, as made by a reputable and honest commentator, who totally abhors Israeli policy, as far as I can tell from his writings. It was the knee-jerk reaction to his piece as propaganda, simply because it dared to look at another nuance of a very complex situation, that got me ranting.

Hardy

Do you think what Israel has done to Gaza might have any link to the rise of Hamas ? 
Take a look up north and see what the Unionists got in return for decades of injustice meted out to the Taigs.
Imagine if the DUP was confining Co Tyrone to a diet of 2/3 of the daily recommended minimum.
That is Gaza.

The situation isn't particularly complicated. Israel is running an apartheid system.   

[Hardy]

You make a good point, Banana Man. Most reasonable people believe Israel should be brought to book over its crimes against humanity in the Middle east and forced to a solution to the conflict by their paymasters in the US. Nobody believes it's wrong to bring aid to the suffering innocents of Gaza. But we mustn't forget in all of this that the people running Gaza itself are a pretty unsavoury bunch and will undoubtedly spin any humanitarian intervention by well meaning people as support for their nasty regime and dodgy alliances. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that is living in a black and white world, as I said.
My initial post was simply to present this point, as made by a reputable and honest commentator, who totally abhors Israeli policy, as far as I can tell from his writings. It was the knee-jerk reaction to his piece as propaganda, simply because it dared to look at another nuance of a very complex situation, that got me ranting.

Hardy

Do you think what Israel has done to Gaza might have any link to the rise of Hamas ? 
Take a look up north and see what the Unionists got in return for decades of injustice meted out to the Taigs.
Imagine if the DUP was confining Co Tyrone to a diet of 2/3 of the daily recommended minimum.
That is Gaza.

The situation isn't particularly complicated. Israel is running an apartheid system.   

I'm surprised you think it's necessary to ask me such questions, seafoid. What has your post got to do with the point of my posts, which were, first, to draw attention to an interesting point made by a good commentator and afterwards to give out about having him labelled a propagandist?

I might as well ask you whether you think everything Hamas does is moral and right and whether you approve of their allies in the Syrian regime, but I wouldn't.