No hand pass problem says Duffy

[orangeman]

The GAA hierarchy are very silly. Why didn't the just deliver a bucketful of pebbles to every county senior team


Sure that would have solved all the problems with fis passing !!!!!!!   

Armagh sorted it out quickly. Smart boys in Armagh.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/fists-of-fury-2183552.html

[Onlooker]

I would say fair play to that referee as well, but if that was an inter county game, there would be an assessor in the stand giving a "thumbs down" and he would get less and less matches.  Whoever got this new handpass nonsense passed has certainly caused some right mess.  There will be a lot more to come as the season moves on.

[OverThePostsAWide]

The rule is as simple as can be, you can strike the ball with the closed fist, or you strike the ball with the underhand, provided there is a striking action.

It's this bit that gets me. We now need a definition of a 'strike'. Surely, unless you're throwing the ball, every movement from one hand to the ball which is in the other hand in order to move it to another location is striking it. Is a flick not a strike? What's a flick then? How long does the strike's span have to be? What if you're good at it and do a long to medium strike very quickly?

Is the intention of the rule change not clear? (even if the current implementation is not). From the official communication:

"7 Handpass (Definition)
   Football
   When in possession, the ball may be played away with
(i)   the fist
or
(ii)   an open hand – in which instance there shall be a definite underhand striking action.
The striking hand shall not be in contact with the ball before delivering the strike.
When both hands are involved, the ball may be struck off a holding hand by the other hand or released from the holding hand and struck with the other hand.
When one hand is involved, the ball may be released from the holding hand and struck with the same hand.
The releasing of the ball, when used, is considered an integral part of the fisted/open Handpass.

Change: A player may execute a pass using the hand by either:
(a)   The fist
(b)   Open hand provided it is struck underhand
In either case there must be a definite striking action, with the striking hand not being in contact with ball before delivering the strike."

A flick (by my definition at least) is when a hand is in contact with the ball - even momentarily - and then the action to flick it away is started with a motion of the fingers or wrist.

I am in favour of the new definiton - even if it mostly clarifies and emphasises what was already illegal. I don't agree with how it has been rushed through, without trialling, proper consultation, etc. though.

There is nothing wrong with the rule in my view. There is a problem of consistancy in how it is being applied alright. A bit of patience is needed - particularly from players and managers. It has been thrown onto the referees too! Managers, in particular, are the worst cases for the "whataboutery" argument. Rather than holding their hand up and saying "actually, that was a correct call by the referee" when their team is penalised, they will most times say "but so and so got away with it so why not us?". It is a reductionist argument that would just lead to anarchy if taken to its ultimate conclusion (that's why I would resist managers as a group being directly involved in the rules formulation process - their business is in winning which may not be in the best interests of the game overall).

There will always be a subjective judgement as to what is a legal handpass, however it is defined. Same with pick-ups, square balls, etc. But we all should know what the intention of these rules are. There is hardly a soccer match that goes by without some controversy over "hand-balls" or "offsides". Doesn't mean either rule is going to - or should - disappear anytime soon.

My advice to underage teams I coach has always been to not take a chance with the more subjective rules - particularly when you mostly have a choice in the case of a handpass or pickup. Make sure to be seen to do it right - particularly in critical situations. Make it easy for the referee to make it easy for you!

Anyway, I guess what I am pleading for is a bit of calm reflection. Sure, it would have been sensible to have this trialled in another competition, but we are where we are. Screaming at/abusing the referees is not going to help. Otherwise we will just have another rule on the books which is happily ignored/made up as we go along a la goalkeepers advancing for penalties and openhand points!

[mountainboii]

This rule has been brought about to appease idiots like Pat Spillane & Bernard Flynn who constantly cry in the media about Northern teams preference for the short hand game.

Whatever about the northern bit, don't want to get into conspiracy theory territory, I think this is right. There are men in charge paying far to much heed to professional shit stirrers in the media like Spillane, with their petty semantic arguments and myths of football in bygone eras. The joke of ringing into RTE to complain about him on Sunday says it all. Would it make too much sense to plan rule changes after holding proper consultations with current players and managers, instead of reacting to the latest moan of the day from lads that are paid to moan?

[OverThePostsAWide]

This rule has been brought about to appease idiots like Pat Spillane & Bernard Flynn who constantly cry in the media about Northern teams preference for the short hand game.

Whatever about the northern bit, don't want to get into conspiracy theory territory, I think this is right. There are men in charge paying far to much heed to professional shit stirrers in the media like Spillane, with their petty semantic arguments and myths of football in bygone eras. The joke of ringing into RTE to complain about him on Sunday says it all. Would it make too much sense to plan rule changes after holding proper consultations with current players and managers, instead of reacting to the latest moan of the day from lads that are paid to moan?

Fair point AFS. But I think managers are just as bad on the moaning front. Have you listened to/read Mickey Harte? (or Cassidy, McAneany, etc., etc.)

[mountainboii]

They do sure enough, but they're ignored. It's eejits that haven't been invovled at the highest level of the game for twenty years, but have a newspaper whinge column, that are listened to. I'd sooner pay heed to the complaints of the men that are at the heart of things right now.

[magpie seanie]

More "clarification" 

Prenty defends new regulations
18 May 2010


Connacht Council secretary John Prenty, who was one of the chief instigators behind the controversial new handpass rule, has strongly defended the changes which have caused uproar in football circles.

Managers and players in three provinces were incensed on Sunday with the new regulations, which they claim they were not fully briefed on.

However, Prenty said yesterday: "I don't think the rule is confusing at all. It's simple. People are talking about new rules being blamed because 13 fellows got booked in one match, but fellows get booked no matter what the rules are!

"You'd swear this thing came out last Friday. Congress was on April the 16/17, so counties know about it. If team managers or players have a problem with the county board, that's not my problem."

The Mayo man added: "We were watching games and the ball was being thrown and slung around the place.

"Some lads were throwing the ball better than Brian O'Driscoll so at a Connacht Council meeting, we decided that we wanted to put something definite on it."

And despite pleas from managers and players to revert back to the old rule, GAA director-general Paraic Duffy insists there will be no going back.

"There will be absolutely no rowing back," he said yesterday.

"If teams want referees to go and explain the rules, I am quite happy to keep doing that until the penny drops - but the rule will remain."


The bit I've highlighted begs the question - why didn't the referees penalise them and if they didn't why didn't Mr Prenty and the other assorted clowns get on the the refs to do their job? Now that's simple Mr Prenty - applying the rules properly. A paid official ridiculing the people who generate the money for his wages - only in Ireland.

[bingobus]

Thats priceless Seanie and people claim the FAI have all the idiots running the show 

[saffron sam2]

More "clarification" 

Prenty defends new regulations
18 May 2010


Connacht Council secretary John Prenty, who was one of the chief instigators behind the controversial new handpass rule, has strongly defended the changes which have caused uproar in football circles.

Managers and players in three provinces were incensed on Sunday with the new regulations, which they claim they were not fully briefed on.

However, Prenty said yesterday: "I don't think the rule is confusing at all. It's simple. People are talking about new rules being blamed because 13 fellows got booked in one match, but fellows get booked no matter what the rules are!

"You'd swear this thing came out last Friday. Congress was on April the 16/17, so counties know about it. If team managers or players have a problem with the county board, that's not my problem."

The Mayo man added: We were watching games and the ball was being thrown and slung around the place.

"Some lads were throwing the ball better than Brian O'Driscoll so at a Connacht Council meeting, we decided that we wanted to put something definite on it."

And despite pleas from managers and players to revert back to the old rule, GAA director-general Paraic Duffy insists there will be no going back.

"There will be absolutely no rowing back," he said yesterday.

"If teams want referees to go and explain the rules, I am quite happy to keep doing that until the penny drops - but the rule will remain."

The arrogance dripping from the shite in bold really, really, really sickens my hole.

[Main Street]

I thought the ref quite rightly penalised Donaghy for his throw-ball for the disallowed goal against Tipp. Personally I thought his throw was obvious and blatant yet I have heard comment (incl the commentators) that there was nothing wrong with Donaghy's pass.

Any reasonable change that succeeds in helping the ref distinguish between a throw and a pass, would be a positive development within the game.

[Zulu]

I don't think the issue is the rule itself but rather the timing of it, that it wasn't trialled and the number of times refs called this new handpass rule wrong. I thought Donaghy's one was dodgy myself but some of the other ones in the 2 televised games were ridiculous.

[catchandkick]

Anyone who believes there has been a problem with throwing in Gaelic football does not know the game or has not played it. That sounds arrogant but I believe it to be true and you have the architect of the rule Eugene McGee

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/eugene-mcgee/eugene-mcgee-bosses-should-put-up-or-shut-up-on-new-rule-2183452.html

giving out about managers giving out about the rule, just because he has created a nonsensical rule which introduces about ten or fifteen frees into every game. Why would you create a rule for a problem that didn't exist?

Watched Armagh v Derry and Kerry v Tipp on Sunday and saw one illegal handpass between the two games. Anthony Maher had his left hand held by a Tipp player and flicked up the ball and fisted with his right hand. This is a foul I believe per the rules quoted in this thread.

Main Street, watch the Donaghy pass again. Definitely not a throw.

Most of McGee's article is a yearning for a return to a kicking game, and I would agree with him to some extent on that. But there has not been a problem with illegal handpassing, so scrap this ridiculous new rule immediately.

[catchandkick]

Just after reading those rules again and Maher's pass was legal!

So no illegal  handpasses in either game! Great!

Looking forward to hearing Pat McEneaney ( only decent ref in football) view on this farce.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Anthony Maher had his left hand held by a Tipp player and flicked up the ball and fisted with his right hand. This is a foul I believe per the rules quoted in this thread.

Was doing a referee course at the weekend - and if you throw the ball up at hit it with the same hand - it is not a free kick

[ONeill]

Will refs have the knackers to blow up for what they perceive to be an illegal handpass within surefire scoring range? Did it occur at the weekend or were all handpass fouls blown up in 'safe' range?