Munster 1st round Cork V Tipp

[Zulu]

Good win for Cork but a poor match and Tipp were woeful. Will all the boys here who were writing off Cork after one or two poor performances after the 'strike' and telling us that this was proof they were wrong to take action now be back on to say otherwise?

Away and catch yourself on.

Why? Lots of muppets came on here and claimed that some of Cork's performances post-strike showed that it was the players who were the problem. Donal Og was written off as were many others, yet I bet that none of you will be on here to accept yer comments were idiotic. As it happens I don't think that this performance today justifies anything but I didn't think that any poor performances since the strike proved anything either so I'm just interested in seeing if the Cork bashers will retracted some of their stupid comments in the months post-strike.

I don't want to take this off-topic but some of the comments by some posters when Cork put in a bad performance in the past two years deserve to be highlighted for teh bullshit they were.

As for Cork, they could well win a poor Munster championship now but they still aren't great.

Was the all-ireland won today? Strange I thought it was a first round game. Will someone please put  me in time machine so I can be transported to the first week of september. Was driving down Jones Road today- didn't see any Cork flags.

Rubbish, a number of lads around here tried to equate a league loss as proof of Cork's demise and that it showed the strike was a failure as the Cork lads previous performances in the championship had nothing to do with McCARTHY AND ALL TO DO WITH THE PLAYERS THEMSELVES. We now know this to be rubbish but anyone who knew their sport always thought this to be the case. I notice none of of those soothsayers have acknowleged their stupidity but instead ignore their previous comments and continue on their merry way.

In saying that I think anyone who thinks this is the re-emergence of Cork needs their head examined. Tipp were awful and Cork were a one trick pony and once AOS is taken care of, which isn't difficult, they'll struggle.

Who exactly Zulu? You want to personalise things -don't sit on the fence. Either put up or shut up.

I can't recall every poster who made those comments and I'm not about to trawlel through all the posts but dowling certainly put the boot in and few more backed him up.

[Zulu]

Where is the contradiction in my posts, I've asked already but I haven't got an answer?

Well on one hand as a result of corks performance yesterday you want certain posters to acknowledge their stupidity for suggesting that the cork team (particularly the strikers) just weren't up to it anymore. You then state that you weren't that impressed with cork. Is that not contradictory?

Not so skull1, I was pointing out the stupidity of any sensible person using a league result to justify or support any position. Likewise yesterdays result must be viewed with caution, Cork are decent but the result doesn't prove they are anything more than that and the performance wasn't great. The point I'm making is that some lads tried to use Cork results as proof that the players were wrong, anyone with any sense knew that wasn't the case. However, if those lads use the same logic they should now acknowledge that yesterdays result was proof they were right, is that not true?

[INDIANA]

Where is the contradiction in my posts, I've asked already but I haven't got an answer?

Well on one hand as a result of corks performance yesterday you want certain posters to acknowledge their stupidity for suggesting that the cork team (particularly the strikers) just weren't up to it anymore. You then state that you weren't that impressed with cork. Is that not contradictory?

Not so skull1, I was pointing out the stupidity of any sensible person using a league result to justify or support any position. Likewise yesterdays result must be viewed with caution, Cork are decent but the result doesn't prove they are anything more than that and the performance wasn't great. The point I'm making is that some lads tried to use Cork results as proof that the players were wrong, anyone with any sense knew that wasn't the case. However, if those lads use the same logic they should now acknowledge that yesterdays result was proof they were right, is that not true?

Think you're becoming paranoid Zulu. People made a fairly logical conclusion that Cork were finished as a force after the league final.
I used the poor performances by Tipp against Dublin and Cork in the NHL as evidence of a deeper malaise in the Tipp camp at present. But I suppose that makes me stupid as well because Cork underperformed in the NHL final.

It was ironic yesterday watching a Cork team using a direct hurling style when one of the noted problems of the strike was the use of such tactics. More then a little irony in that as well.

[Zulu]

Nice attempt at twisting logic there Indiana. In fairness you weren't one of the lads who threw the cheap shots and I agreed with your, and others, overall assessment of Cork going forward. What I objected to was those who tried to connect a league loss with the strike and the point I'm making is to those who used that logic must now accept the Cork players were right to get rid of Gerald if results justify actions? Cork have managed something they couldn't under Gerald so they must have been right (if we use the same logic of those who put the boot in after league defeats, no?)

[theskull1]

Not so skull1, I was pointing out the stupidity of any sensible person using a league result to justify or support any position. Likewise yesterdays result must be viewed with caution, Cork are decent but the result doesn't prove they are anything more than that and the performance wasn't great. The point I'm making is that some lads tried to use Cork results as proof that the players were wrong, anyone with any sense knew that wasn't the case. However, if those lads use the same logic they should now acknowledge that yesterdays result was proof they were right, is that not true?

Tipps inability to offer cork any real fight yesterday means that a proper assessment of just how good cork were is difficult at this stage. They put in an equally spirited performance against galway 2 years ago under Ger Mac but overall they haven't looked like AI winners for a few years now. I don't think its fair to suggest that people were basing their opinions on cork solely on the league final (a game in which they performed like tipp did yesterday). Still think you're contradicting yourself a bit with this argument

[INDIANA]

Nice attempt at twisting logic there Indiana. In fairness you weren't one of the lads who threw the cheap shots and I agreed with your, and others, overall assessment of Cork going forward. What I objected to was those who tried to connect a league loss with the strike and the point I'm making is to those who used that logic must now accept the Cork players were right to get rid of Gerald if results justify actions? Cork have managed something they couldn't under Gerald so they must have been right (if we use the same logic of those who put the boot in after league defeats, no?)

Denis Walsh is a good manager. No-one would say otherwise. But the cork hurlers can thank the likes of John Fenton for picking him. I could never agree with the tactics used to get rid of Gerald for the simple reason that it spiralled beyond sport. Which it shouldn't in an amateur scenario. That whole scenario went to a place it never should have gone. So personally while I'm a big admirer of the Cork football team I could never bring myself to like the ringleaders of the strike in terms of the Cork hurlers. A good Gaa man was disgraced and abused to the extent that he won't be involved again. thats sad in my view.

On the game itself. Cork on that display could beat everyone except Kilkenny. I really think Kilkenny are home and hosed. If the 2007 Cork model couldn't beat kilkenny. The 2010 model comprising of largely the same players definitely won't. Its the same reason why tyrone aren't capable of winning the all-ireland this season at football. Tipp were absolutely woeful yesterday. In the NHl against an average side like Dublin you could detect the softness that set in over the winter. But I assumed Cork had regressed miles back. What was shown was that experience still counts and that Tipp underage players look like following the habits of previous crews. Tipp are not doing well at u21 level and that may indicate a deeper malaise within the transition from minor to u21.

In fairness Cork used 37 players in the league but largely came back to the old dogs. the fact that Walsh can get that level of performance shows him to be a good manager.

[Zulu]

Denis Walsh is a good manager. No-one would say otherwise. But the cork hurlers can thank the likes of John Fenton for picking him. I could never agree with the tactics used to get rid of Gerald for the simple reason that it spiralled beyond sport. Which it shouldn't in an amateur scenario. That whole scenario went to a place it never should have gone. So personally while I'm a big admirer of the Cork football team I could never bring myself to like the ringleaders of the strike in terms of the Cork hurlers. A good Gaa man was disgraced and abused to the extent that he won't be involved again. thats sad in my view.

You're missing the point I'm making. When the strike was happening we all argued our points but once it was over most of us left it at that. However, some lads tried to use some poor league results or the fact that Cork didn't progress in last years championship beyond what they did under Gerald as proof that the players were the problem and not the management. If that logic holds true they must surely retract their statements and accept the players were right and that Gerald was the problem as they have now achieved something Gerald never managed.

On the game, I thought Cork worked extremely hard and were brilliant in may ways but they don't look like a team that can score heavily and I think their backs are not what they used to be and they won't beat Kilkenny.

[dowling]

Zulu I'm flattered, out of all the names you could have chosen from you picked mine!

I don't go much by the league but here's what I wrote on April 5,

"While there's no doubting the calibre of some of the Cork players over the last number of years I would contend that Ger saw the need to revamp things but was prevented from doing so. Ironically all the strike achieved was to delay the changes and progress that would come about."

[bottlethrower7]

good man Babs. That lad just can't help himself, can he!

[INDIANA]

good man Babs. That lad just can't help himself, can he!

He's an absolute disgrace that man. he really is. Those comments he made in the INDo today are beyond the pale in my view.

[orangeman]

Babs out of order again but some home truths in there as well !!


Babs points finger at Tipp 'failures'


Tuesday June 01 2010

IN AN angry outburst, former manager Michael 'Babs' Keating has written off Tipperary's All-Ireland prospects in the wake of Sunday's crushing Munster SHC defeat to Cork.

Keating insisted that last year's beaten All-Ireland finalists will not fancy the Qualifier route after falling to a 10-point defeat at Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

Keating, who failed to capture any silverware during his second spell in charge from 2005-07, launched another blistering attack on the current players, many of whom he managed prior to Liam Sheedy's appointment.

Sheedy masterminded successive Munster successes in 2008 and 2009, and Tipp also ran Kilkenny desperately close in last year's All-Ireland final, but Keating remains unconvinced and claimed that some players have "failed" Tipperary.

Relish

Speaking to TV3, Keating said: "If Tipp are to come through, they could have to meet Waterford, Galway and Kilkenny along the way. I don't think the players that have failed Tipperary over the last number of years will relish meeting them all.

"Having to face a couple of them will make life very tough for Tipperary."

Keating also launched a fresh defence of his tempestuous second term in charge, which saw him at odds with leading players like Brendan Cummins and Eoin Kelly.

"Decisions that myself, Tom Barry and John Leahy made managing the team four and five years ago, we made in the best interests of the people paying money and wearing the blue and gold going in the gate," he said.

During the 2007 campaign, Keating dropped both Cummins and Kelly and he reflected: "We made unpopular decisions but made those decisions in their (supporters') best interests.

"If Liam and his selectors sat down with us at that stage for a couple of hours, they need not necessarily have taken our ideas on board but he (Sheedy) could have taken a few short-cuts along the way and he would be in a better position today than he is."

Keating also took a veiled swipe at Sheedy when he spoke about Cork boss Denis Walsh's planning for Sunday's win, saying: "Denis Walsh has a history of winning All-Irelands -- he has that advantage over Liam Sheedy."

Keating once again stressed that Tipperary's half-forward division and midfield is not up to scratch and claimed that the personnel he worked with who are still playing for the Premier County did not heed the advice he had given them.

He said: "The half-forward line and midfield are not strong enough to match what's going to emerge -- that was proven in last year's All-Ireland.

"All the mistakes being made, we would have hammered those home night in, night out. Take the goal chance that Lar Corbett missed -- we missed three of those in last year's All-Ireland. Those guys did not take on board the advice that they were given.

"If (Pat) Fox or (Nicky) English got the opportunity that Lar Corbett got, it would have been a definite green flag. If Fox or English got the opportunity of three goals in last year's All-Ireland, they would be goals.

"They wouldn't be making heroes out of PJ Ryan or Donal Óg (Cusack).

"This is where the team is lacking. Until we get a grasp of that and what centre-field and half-forward play is about and add in what is typical Tipperary hurling, a good bit of steel, I don't think we're going to come back winning again."

- Jackie Cahill

Irish Independent

[Reillers]

Nice attempt at twisting logic there Indiana. In fairness you weren't one of the lads who threw the cheap shots and I agreed with your, and others, overall assessment of Cork going forward. What I objected to was those who tried to connect a league loss with the strike and the point I'm making is to those who used that logic must now accept the Cork players were right to get rid of Gerald if results justify actions? Cork have managed something they couldn't under Gerald so they must have been right (if we use the same logic of those who put the boot in after league defeats, no?)

Denis Walsh is a good manager. No-one would say otherwise. But the cork hurlers can thank the likes of John Fenton for picking him. I could never agree with the tactics used to get rid of Gerald for the simple reason that it spiralled beyond sport. Which it shouldn't in an amateur scenario. That whole scenario went to a place it never should have gone. So personally while I'm a big admirer of the Cork football team I could never bring myself to like the ringleaders of the strike in terms of the Cork hurlers. A good Gaa man was disgraced and abused to the extent that he won't be involved again. thats sad in my view.

On the game itself. Cork on that display could beat everyone except Kilkenny. I really think Kilkenny are home and hosed. If the 2007 Cork model couldn't beat kilkenny. The 2010 model comprising of largely the same players definitely won't. Its the same reason why tyrone aren't capable of winning the all-ireland this season at football. Tipp were absolutely woeful yesterday. In the NHl against an average side like Dublin you could detect the softness that set in over the winter. But I assumed Cork had regressed miles back. What was shown was that experience still counts and that Tipp underage players look like following the habits of previous crews. Tipp are not doing well at u21 level and that may indicate a deeper malaise within the transition from minor to u21.

In fairness Cork used 37 players in the league but largely came back to the old dogs. the fact that Walsh can get that level of performance shows him to be a good manager.

First off, Zulu is right in a way, I mean a lot of people, proabably (and I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong) you as well, gave the players and awful hard doing especially when they were, to put it lightly, humiliated and destroyed, ripped apart by Kilkenny under Walsh's first game.
Everyone had a go, and no doubt, ye all enjoyed it, and if that was the side you were on I wouln't blame ye for it. A lot had a go about how Gerald wasn't the problem, the players were, they were passed it and couldn't except that their failures had nothing to do with Gerald, and that game highlighted it, but I don't blame ye for thinking that, and it's hard to say oh well now ye've to come on and take it back because a lot has changed in a year. We'd no fight then, everyone was exhausted and drained while players like Gardiner had aged 5 years.

I am not getting back into the issues of the strike and I probably wont bring it up after this post, I've no desire to debate them, but maybe one day you'll see the other side and the necessity of the strike will come to light, Gerald was a victim of the CCB's games. But BOTH sides were abused, BOTH sides experienced months of criticism that they never should have had to deal with, especially as amateurs. And I hope no one ever is put in that position again. It was horrible experience for BOTH sides. But all of it was down to the games the CCB played. And I know that things were said and done from BOTH sides that they regret now.

At the end of the day, they were thrown into a pit and the CCB presumed that Gerald would come out of it, he didn't. And that was that. It was a scrap for their lives and we all know what happened.

And now, because of it, the clubs have their voice, and most incredibily and importantly, out of the horrible mess of the strike, the clubs forum was born. Now things are questioned more and things are a little bit more democratic and see through. While all along the CCB now know that the clubs have power and if they have to will stand against them again. And that is only good for the game in Cork. No question about that.

But without the strike that happened, things wouldn't have been done the way they were, and have never picked someone like Walsh. Instead another person they could hold unde their tumb.

You're right though we've Jimmy Barry-Murphy, John Fenton and Denis Coughlan, to thank for what's happened this season just as much as the rest of the players and Walsh and the clubs forum, without their hard work we'd never have appointed Denis Walsh, who has brought calm and unity back into a squad that really needed something to lift the cloud.

I mean it was highlighted there in the game, Gardiner had aged about 5 years in the strike, no exageration, and Donal Og spoke about it in his book, that Gardiner was under all kinds of stress and taking it really hard. They all were. But I wont pretend that I was happy about seeing Gerald been thrown around by the CCB and things were said on both sides that I genuinely think both sides regret, and it's sad what happened, but both sides were at fault.

No one came out of the strike well, neither sides did, in your mind it was black and white, the hurlers won and a good GAA man lost, but nobody came out of it well. Not even close.

I hope now though, maybe a bit naive but anyway, that we can now fully move on from it. It's been a horrible long road to this point. And no one ever again wants to see the amateur game dragged through the mud like it was.
I don't expect you and any of your lot to change your view on it now, and I certainly wont change my view on things. But we're allowed to adapt and move with the time and hopefully soon there will be enough time and space for us to fully move on from what happened.

There was no winner..hurling lost and that's the truth of it.
You, and everyone else for that matter, has your views, I've mine, and they'll probably never change and I've no desire to try and change them now.

I just gotta wonder how long will it take for Cork hurling just to be about hurling.
Is it wrong of me to think that we were past it all ready. I suppose.

[seafoid]

Babs out of order again but some home truths in there as well !!


Babs points finger at Tipp 'failures'


Tuesday June 01 2010

IN AN angry outburst, former manager Michael 'Babs' Keating has written off Tipperary's All-Ireland prospects

I love reading Babs interviews. He has no tact but is very entertaining.

[theskull1]

I just gotta wonder how long will it take for Cork hurling just to be about hurling.
Is it wrong of me to think that we were past it all ready. I suppose.

What with media profiles, book deals and endorsement opertunities, you'd better ask the players Reillers

As good as some of them still are on the pitch I have zero respect for many on that panel and will be happy to see those humiliated in the same way they tried to humiliate Ger Mac. Whether that will happen this year is not in my hands. Gut feeling ....I still think they will fall short this year but I may very well be wrong.  Truth is Sundays game was not enough to judge whether cork are back at the right level again due to Tipp being so bad.

[NAG1]

Babs is a bitter mouth piece, how can he come out and stab guys in the back that he used to train and manage. No decency about the man whatsoever.

Thought the match was great intesity wise, Cork definitely got that part right. I dont think their hurling was particularly good. They closed Tipp down all over and didnt give them a second. Also was good to see the adapting to the new tatic of Ohalpin on the edge of the square def gave them an added dimension.

Be interesting to see them next time out if they can rise to that level again, plus people will have caught on to the direct route tactic.

I think it might be the catalyst fot Tipp in a strange way, throw off the caution and just really go for it!