Sean Og wants pay for play

[johnpower]

I dint think there is any appetite for an official above board pay for pay scheme .Its the under the table payments that will cause the issue . How many inter county panelists are out of work at the moment ?

[Milltown Row2]

I dint think there is any appetite for an official above board pay for pay scheme .Its the under the table payments that will cause the issue . How many inter county panelists are out of work at the moment ?

possibly the same number that was out of work during the the 20's 30's 40' 50's 60's and 70's.

unemployment and people migrating to other countries has been going on for years and years to come. there are plenty of people who can slot into county teams

[dowling]

Zulu in effect pay for play has already happened with the substantial sum of money given over to the gpa. The practice is there, the only thing that will change in time will be the form and amount of payment.
Who would have thought not that long ago that it would have been feasible for the gpa to be given offices in Croke Park and have a lump sum packed away in their back pocket?
Ok the gpa said professionalism wasn't feasible but was that perhaps just expediency? There's an awful lot of emphasis on player welfare and a lot of demand for financial cover for such. To me if it walks like a duck... And all that.
I wouldn't doubt for one minute that the gpa and individual members of it still have professionalism in their sights even if it is under a different name for now.
What I can't understand is why the more opened minded here, and I would include you in that, to support their argument say even the gpa say it isn't feasible. Before they were saying they weren't interested in professionalism. So why do a feasibility study into it at all then?
From personal experience speaking to certain gpa members, the hardcore for want of a better description, there's always been a desire to have pay for play.
Some arguments are hard to oppose in theory. There's no doubt, for the hierarchy and managers, the GAA is now a career move so how can managers but especially those in Croke oppose the theory of others getting paid. There is a lot of duplicity and hypocrisy.
I'm convinced there will be a formula found to make professionalism feasible in time. But it wont be compatible with the GAA of today and will profoundly change it for the worse.

[Hardy]

Indeed, Dowling.


Dessie Farrell on professionalism, 2002:

"We need to crawl before we can walk and also in the current climate the expense rate is more acceptable in media circles as how we are perceived is very important at present."

"Having said that, it should not prevent us from harbouring private opinions on this with long-term objectives. At the moment though, let's take it one battle at a time until the war is won".


Donal Óg Cusack on professionalism, 2005:

"Money is very much in the game as we speak.

"All you have to do is go to Croke Park and look at their budgets for the year.

"The idea of volunteerism? I don't accept that. If I was training a young guy and I thought he could go on to become a professional athlete and make a great life for himself, I would be delighted to see him go on and do that.

"And if you look at other sports – soccer, rugby, Australian Rules – the volunteer aspect has never been affected by the game being professional."

"Everybody can see how professional it <the GAA> is on one level – they say they have respect for players but the relationship with the GPA is practically non-existent.

"They can't want players to produce this product, then sell it and tell players it's all for the love of the game."


Clearly these men are staunch opponents of professionalism.

[dowling]

Cheers Hardy.
I know some people will still argue with that but I don't really see how they can.

[antoinse]

I had been told earlier of the Irish Mail article by a M. Clifford today. Just read it. Who is he? Is he the new spokesman for the GPA? According to him all youse that are anti 'Pay for Play' should not worry because "These are not fears but unbridled paranoia" 

[Reillers]

Zulu in effect pay for play has already happened with the substantial sum of money given over to the gpa. The practice is there, the only thing that will change in time will be the form and amount of payment.
Who would have thought not that long ago that it would have been feasible for the gpa to be given offices in Croke Park and have a lump sum packed away in their back pocket?
Ok the gpa said professionalism wasn't feasible but was that perhaps just expediency? There's an awful lot of emphasis on player welfare and a lot of demand for financial cover for such. To me if it walks like a duck... And all that.
I wouldn't doubt for one minute that the gpa and individual members of it still have professionalism in their sights even if it is under a different name for now.
What I can't understand is why the more opened minded here, and I would include you in that, to support their argument say even the gpa say it isn't feasible. Before they were saying they weren't interested in professionalism. So why do a feasibility study into it at all then?
From personal experience speaking to certain gpa members, the hardcore for want of a better description, there's always been a desire to have pay for play.
Some arguments are hard to oppose in theory. There's no doubt, for the hierarchy and managers, the GAA is now a career move so how can managers but especially those in Croke oppose the theory of others getting paid. There is a lot of duplicity and hypocrisy.
I'm convinced there will be a formula found to make professionalism feasible in time. But it wont be compatible with the GAA of today and will profoundly change it for the worse.

Do you believe that the way IC players were treated in the past was acceptable? Yes or no.
The GPA was formed by players up and down this country (not just Cork and for a time there was just 2 Cork players in it)
formed it because they felt it was neccesary to do so. They felt that they were not being treated well enough, it wasn't formed for them to try and figure out a way of getting pay for play. It's not what it was about, despite people's opinions. It was to try and have some say in whether the GAA used their image in ads, or about preventing things like Niall McCarthy having to travel all the way down from Derry in the bus with blood pooring out of his head because no doc was able to go with them.
 
Were they wrong to look for some sort of body of representation that looked after them? Not money wise, that body has not asked for professionalism. Were they wrong to look to have their wellfare looked after? It wasn't coming from the GAA and that's what they all looked somewhere else to something else. I mean that's why it's there. That's the idea of it anyway.

Every player up and down this country would like to, in a dream land, be paid for playing GAA, everyone involved would love if they get money, from the lads who take care of the ground to the IC players, everyone would love to be paid for all the work we do.

But that's just a fantasy, no one wants professionalism, the majority don't want it anyway, it will never happen, not in our lifetime, and EVERYONE, players included knows that.

It will never happen, and the country could never afford it, especially not now. It will never happen so what the point of arguing it to death is, I don't know.

[Rossfan]

Sure the conspiracy lads have  to have something to keep them moaning about those nasty Inter County and player  types -- with of course an Inter County Player being the Devil incarnate altogether.

[heffo]

Zulu in effect pay for play has already happened with the substantial sum of money given over to the gpa. The practice is there, the only thing that will change in time will be the form and amount of payment.
Who would have thought not that long ago that it would have been feasible for the gpa to be given offices in Croke Park and have a lump sum packed away in their back pocket?
Ok the gpa said professionalism wasn't feasible but was that perhaps just expediency? There's an awful lot of emphasis on player welfare and a lot of demand for financial cover for such. To me if it walks like a duck... And all that.
I wouldn't doubt for one minute that the gpa and individual members of it still have professionalism in their sights even if it is under a different name for now.
What I can't understand is why the more opened minded here, and I would include you in that, to support their argument say even the gpa say it isn't feasible. Before they were saying they weren't interested in professionalism. So why do a feasibility study into it at all then?
From personal experience speaking to certain gpa members, the hardcore for want of a better description, there's always been a desire to have pay for play.
Some arguments are hard to oppose in theory. There's no doubt, for the hierarchy and managers, the GAA is now a career move so how can managers but especially those in Croke oppose the theory of others getting paid. There is a lot of duplicity and hypocrisy.
I'm convinced there will be a formula found to make professionalism feasible in time. But it wont be compatible with the GAA of today and will profoundly change it for the worse.

preventing things like Niall McCarthy having to travel all the way down from Derry in the bus with blood pooring out of his head because no doc was able to go with them.
 

"Just get on the team bus Doc and no-one gets hurt. Try any funny business and we'll blaggard you in the media and can organise funeral boycotts on request..."

[dowling]

Told you Hardy.

I would differ on why the gpa was set up. With the increased GAA revenue a few boys decided there was potential for players to get a cut. And to strengthen their case they've latched on to welfare and this commitment bit along with raising their importance in the GAA as if the rest of us aren't worth a fcuk and other players don't have the same needs. Like no one gives commitment or has needs like a IC player.

Ad no one is making this a Cork issue Reillers by the way.

[Zulu]

First off dowling, credit where credit is due your reply is a fair and reasonable post. However I think you ignore many of the realities that simply ensure a professional GAA is not a possibility.

Zulu in effect pay for play has already happened with the substantial sum of money given over to the gpa. The practice is there, the only thing that will change in time will be the form and amount of payment.

I disagree, they have been given money from central funds, clubs and counties get money through CP also, as do many committees etc. That isn't professionalism that is money for player welfare and it would have been spent on player welfare whether it was through the GPA or some other player welfare body. They also have to clearly show how they are spending the money before they can access it so no player will pocket any of it for simply playing the games.

Who would have thought not that long ago that it would have been feasible for the gpa to be given offices in Croke Park and have a lump sum packed away in their back pocket?

I would have and the decision is not before time. It is pointless GAA administration and GAA players being at loggerheads. A solution had to be found and like or not the GPA are the players representatives.

Ok the gpa said professionalism wasn't feasible but was that perhaps just expediency? There's an awful lot of emphasis on player welfare and a lot of demand for financial cover for such. To me if it walks like a duck... And all that.

Why would it be expediency? Why admit it wasn't feasible if that is their goal? Of course there should be a lot of emphasis on player welfare, we demand a huge amount from our players and they generate huge amounts of money, the least we can do is ensure they are looked after as best we can.

I wouldn't doubt for one minute that the gpa and individual members of it still have professionalism in their sights even if it is under a different name for now.

Only a fool wouldn't want to get paid for doing what they love but the GPA know as well as anyone that professionalism isn't a realistic goal so there is no point in pursuing it. Anyway they know that there is no way they'd generate the support of the rest of the GAA so it simply isn't a runner.

What I can't understand is why the more opened minded here, and I would include you in that, to support their argument say even the gpa say it isn't feasible. Before they were saying they weren't interested in professionalism. So why do a feasibility study into it at all then?

Why not do one? IMO the GAA should have done it as we should make decisions on facts, not conjecture. If you think a professional GAA is feasible then please outline it for me because I can't think of any way that a professional GAA would a) work and fund itself and b) get the necessary support for it to become a reality.

I'm convinced there will be a formula found to make professionalism feasible in time.

That's like saying you're convinced the world will end if we don't all repent. You might be right but if you want to be taken seriously you have to show us why you think that.

But it wont be compatible with the GAA of today and will profoundly change it for the worse

I'd broadly agree, which is why it won't happen. The players aren't fools and none of the current day players will see any money even if we do go professional as it won't happen in the next 10 years. All the players would love to get paid I'm sure but they wouldn't want it if it destroyed the GAA and if it wasn't sustainable. The reality is it isn't sustainable and would fundamentally change the GAA from what it is.

[Reillers]

Told you Hardy.

I would differ on why the gpa was set up. With the increased GAA revenue a few boys decided there was potential for players to get a cut. And to strengthen their case they've latched on to welfare and this commitment bit along with raising their importance in the GAA as if the rest of us aren't worth a fcuk and other players don't have the same needs. Like no one gives commitment or has needs like a IC player.

Ad no one is making this a Cork issue Reillers by the way.

So you think that all these players involved, all who started it did it purely because they thought they saw the potential for players to get a cut?
You are such a cynic.

The GPA was founded..in Ulster..Donal O'Neill founded it, the likes of Fergal Logan, Peter Canavan all backed it and it eventually found it's way out of Ulster.
Were they looking for a cut?

It grew and was backed then because it was needed, the players wanted an outlet, they wanted someone or something to stand up for their rights.
They were being treated like crap and they felt that the players association was needed. There's one in every other sport, why not in the GAA.
And through that they wanted to stop the GAA from using their image whenever they pleased, to help out players when they needed it be it medically, financially and whatever else, not pay for play.
Now things are better but they could be better, if a player gets injured they shouldn't have to wait months to get that money that compinsates them.

It's just, I get what you're saying right. The organisation is and always be and I firmly believe that, an amateur organisation. But the GAA, IMO, can't expect the players, especially the IC players to act like and train professionally on one hand and treat them like crap on the other hand, they can't have it both ways. Now I'm not saying it should be professional, that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying that they can't expect them to act like and train like professional athletes and treat them like they did, in a purely amateur way.


Like I said, you're getting very worked up about something that can't happen and everyone knows it, it can't happen because the money isn't there, it wasn't there when we had money and it certainly isn't there now. And more importantly then that is the fact that they would never get the backing it needs.
Ya the odd individual, like Sean Og, might turn around say oh he'd love if they got paid, you'd have to be a deluded man to think that they wouldn't all love to get paid for playing, to get paid for doing something you love or have to go to work everyday and fit training around the rest of their lives. But that is just a fantasy. Hell they might even want it to go pro, which I don't think is what Sean Og was saying, but that's another thing really, but the truth of it is and every man and his dog knows it, that it will never happen.

The GPA is there to represent the players and if it wasn't formed some other organisation would have been to protect and serve the welfare of it's players, if they never were formed, something else would have been.
They do work, a lot of work, with their twin counties, Cork's one is Down, or it was, and a lot of work is done there. It's not just about the top IC players, it's far from it and I think you make judgements on something you're not fully informed about.
Many people hate it, or hate the idea of it, but if the GPA manage to get it to the club scene, like they want to, then great, maybe we'll get our physio cover back,  It's hard enough, the times we are in now, it's hard enough to get by.

People used to go to out training for the escape, down to the ball alley hit around for a while, not have to worry about will they have a job in the morning or will they have to leave or whatever. For me I go training and see empty places in the dressing room, fewer and fewer because so many are after emmigrating and I've no doubt that it's the same scenario up and down the country. Things are hard enough. Because of that, I wont begrudge anyone who earns a sponsorship from Adidas or gets a free car or ever a free pair of boots because they are good at the game. They work hard enough for it.
We do what we do to get along and I also wont begrudge them if the IC players get an extra euro or two to cover them for injuries or if they get stuck in money difficulties, with college or whatever.

I'm not promoting pay for play but I certainly wont have a go at lads who are able to earn the extra euro out of it.

[Tatler Jack]

Sure the conspiracy lads have  to have something to keep them moaning about those nasty Inter County and player  types -- with of course an Inter County Player being the Devil incarnate altogether.

Think you mentioned earlier on this thread that you play a biteen of music. Pity you have only the one tune!!!

[heffo]

Told you Hardy.

I would differ on why the gpa was set up. With the increased GAA revenue a few boys decided there was potential for players to get a cut. And to strengthen their case they've latched on to welfare and this commitment bit along with raising their importance in the GAA as if the rest of us aren't worth a fcuk and other players don't have the same needs. Like no one gives commitment or has needs like a IC player.

Ad no one is making this a Cork issue Reillers by the way.

I also wont begrudge them if the IC players get an extra euro or two to cover them for injuries or if they get stuck in money difficulties, with college or whatever.

I don't think anyone (even the most ardent anti Cork/GPA person) would want to see anyone, least of all a college student out of pocket.

The problem is when it goes from ensuring no-one is stuck, to a certain few deciding whether to build on an east or a west wing on the site they got for cost price from the builder.

Ps - Bobby texted me there to say the word around Cork is that you're moving northwards next year...Na Piarsaigh..any truth??

[Rossfan]

Sure the conspiracy lads have  to have something to keep them moaning about those nasty Inter County and player  types -- with of course an Inter County Player being the Devil incarnate altogether.

Think you mentioned earlier on this thread that you play a biteen of music. Pity you have only the one tune!!!

I'm responding to posters who have one tune ( nasty greedy inter co/GPA etc etc etc).