Derry v Armagh Championship

[ddc1990]

Two poor teams. Might win Ulster but not much else.

[Highlander3]

i thought Derry were awful, and that Armagh were much the better team, but they are hard to watch very slow in their build up.

[Schkite]

Hearty stopped it well, but wasn't a good penalty. Has GOK always taken Derry's penalties?

Aye what's the story here, never thought of him as a penalty taker? Or is it just that he was the only one who had the balls to take a pressure kick in the dying minutes?

[doodaa]

How many years now have Derry underperformed in the Ulster Championship? is it 12?

Underperformed? Maybe they're just not actually that good.

Nail. On. Head.
Ref ruined the game from the start, all players needed to do was run into a tackle, fall over and they got there free.
As for the "defined" handpass what a bloody joke, wasnt a throw ball in the match all were struck cleanly.
McKeever didnt get the yellow for the shoulder (perfect hit imo) but for the afters.
Penalty was a joke, Finmo got the ball clean with a bit of man, its a physical game so Armagh could feel aggrieved had derry scored it.
Justice was done when Gerd o kane missed (feel sorry for him, he'll be made a scapegoat now cos noone else had the balls to hit it.)

[Bogball XV]

Hearty stopped it well, but wasn't a good penalty. Has GOK always taken Derry's penalties?

Aye what's the story here, never thought of him as a penalty taker? Or is it just that he was the only one who had the balls to take a pressure kick in the dying minutes?

I think he maybe takes them for his club, obviously the nominated taker though.

Maybe if the rule makers spent more time coming up with a tackle rule, persistent fouling rule, sin bin, amount of men tackling etc rather than tackling the hand pass we might have a game that's in some way watchable again. 

[Sam of the Sarsfields]

Hearty stopped it well, but wasn't a good penalty. Has GOK always taken Derry's penalties?

Aye what's the story here, never thought of him as a penalty taker? Or is it just that he was the only one who had the balls to take a pressure kick in the dying minutes?

I think he maybe takes them for his club, obviously the nominated taker though.

Maybe if the rule makers spent more time coming up with a tackle rule, persistent fouling rule, sin bin, amount of men tackling etc rather than tackling the hand pass we might have a game that's in some way watchable again.

What the hell was wrong with the handpass anyway that it needed to be slowed down? If anything allowing a slicker faster handpass is the only way teams can work fast enough to get round persistent fouling. The quick handpass is integral to building an attack at speed.

[Logan]

Hearty stopped it well, but wasn't a good penalty. Has GOK always taken Derry's penalties?

Aye what's the story here, never thought of him as a penalty taker? Or is it just that he was the only one who had the balls to take a pressure kick in the dying minutes?

I think he maybe takes them for his club, obviously the nominated taker though.

Maybe if the rule makers spent more time coming up with a tackle rule, persistent fouling rule, sin bin, amount of men tackling etc rather than tackling the hand pass we might have a game that's in some way watchable again.

What the hell was wrong with the handpass anyway that it needed to be slowed down? If anything allowing a slicker faster handpass is the only way teams can work fast enough to get round persistent fouling. The quick handpass is integral to building an attack at speed.

Exactly and stops rucks and wrestling matches from forming

[Bogball XV]

i thought Derry were awful, and that Armagh were much the better team, but they are hard to watch very slow in their build up.

i thought armagh played to a system, an absolutely horrible system, but at least they played to it - derry were clueless in how to counteract it, which I can't understand.  Maybe if they'd even attempted kicking points from about the 45 instead of handpassing (legally or otherwise) it back and forward before eventually losing it, they might have got somewhere.
I'd say Armagh v Monaghan should be a cracker - first point wins it  

[Bogball XV]

Hearty stopped it well, but wasn't a good penalty. Has GOK always taken Derry's penalties?

Aye what's the story here, never thought of him as a penalty taker? Or is it just that he was the only one who had the balls to take a pressure kick in the dying minutes?

I think he maybe takes them for his club, obviously the nominated taker though.

Maybe if the rule makers spent more time coming up with a tackle rule, persistent fouling rule, sin bin, amount of men tackling etc rather than tackling the hand pass we might have a game that's in some way watchable again.

What the hell was wrong with the handpass anyway that it needed to be slowed down? If anything allowing a slicker faster handpass is the only way teams can work fast enough to get round persistent fouling. The quick handpass is integral to building an attack at speed.

purists from counties which don't play football have decided that football is not basketball (although scoreable frees for team fouls would be a great move forward - no more avantage for the persistent fouling out the field) and this is their way of returning to catch and kick of the 50's.  Worked well today anyway

[Mickeys beard]

They need to refine the marshalling of the existing rules before even entertaining rule changes.   A lot of ambiguity still exists  eg.  picking up ball rolling towards you.  Also, while we don't want to emasculate (as Brolly said)  the game, in my book to run into a player who has the ball at speed with the shoulder should be a free and maybe a yellow, depending on the severity of the 'hit'(AFL, rugby?) I always thought that you could put in a good shoulder if two players were going for a loose ball.
Always fancied Armagh for this one.  Jaysis, O'Rourke and Spillane will be delighted.  C'mon Tipp!

[Zulu]

in my book to run into a player who has the ball at speed with the shoulder should be a free and maybe a yellow, depending on the severity of the 'hit'(AFL, rugby?)

I disagree entirely with that.

On another point, while Deegan puinshed loads of good legitimate tackles, a number of players conceded four or five frees (at least in Deegan's eyes) yet weren't booked. If you are blown for 3 frees you should at least be booked and one or two more should see you off. One of the problems we have is that you don't really have to worry about tackling properly because you won't get severly punished for fouling. Though in fairness we should probably sort out the standard of refereeing first.

[Sam of the Sarsfields]

Hearty stopped it well, but wasn't a good penalty. Has GOK always taken Derry's penalties?

Aye what's the story here, never thought of him as a penalty taker? Or is it just that he was the only one who had the balls to take a pressure kick in the dying minutes?

I think he maybe takes them for his club, obviously the nominated taker though.

Maybe if the rule makers spent more time coming up with a tackle rule, persistent fouling rule, sin bin, amount of men tackling etc rather than tackling the hand pass we might have a game that's in some way watchable again.

What the hell was wrong with the handpass anyway that it needed to be slowed down? If anything allowing a slicker faster handpass is the only way teams can work fast enough to get round persistent fouling. The quick handpass is integral to building an attack at speed.

purists from counties which don't play football have decided that football is not basketball (although scoreable frees for team fouls would be a great move forward - no more avantage for the persistent fouling out the field) and this is their way of returning to catch and kick of the 50's.  Worked well today anyway

Unfortunately its not just purists from counties that can't play football - Spillanes argument in support of the rule put forward to Brolly before the game showed a shocking lack of insight.

He was of the opinion that it was a good idea and an attempt to bring proper kick-passing into the game, there are too many 'lateral' handpasses he says. Does he think teams prefer to handpass? An accurate kickpass to a forward is the most effective pass in the game, but of course it is because it is the most effective pass in the game that the opposition will do everything in their power to prohibit you from making this pass. Thats where the handpass comes in, fast slick handpassing is the only way teams can play themselves into a position where an effective kickpass becomes a viable option.

Slowing the handpass down won't result in more kickpasses, it will inevitably result in less as players get bottled up much more easily and teams find it more difficult to work themselves into a kick-passing position.

[pintsofguinness]

They need to refine the marshalling of the existing rules before even entertaining rule changes.   A lot of ambiguity still exists eg.  picking up ball rolling towards you.  Also, while we don't want to emasculate (as Brolly said)  the game, in my book to run into a player who has the ball at speed with the shoulder should be a free and maybe a yellow, depending on the severity of the 'hit'(AFL, rugby?) I always thought that you could put in a good shoulder if two players were going for a loose ball.
Always fancied Armagh for this one.  Jaysis, O'Rourke and Spillane will be delighted.  C'mon Tipp!

Or how about just enforcing the basic rules, not allowing goalkeeper to move of his line while a penalty is being taken should be simple one to enforce!

Sam, if Spillane had his way all we would see is high balls being kicked in to the square

[Aerlik]

When doing my ref's course last year, two particular "fouls" were highlighted.  The throw-handpass and the pick-up off the ground without feet.  The rules are simple; there must be distinct contact between fist/palm and ball in the former case.  In the latter, you simply cannot pick a rolling or for that matter static ball off the ground without using your foot, ie. in the traditional way.  Last year I consistently penalised players for doing so.  When I pointed out that fouls were being committed the players were more concerned with keeping the flow of the game going rather than abiding by the rules, ie. not cheating.  Until the rules change, I will continue to penalise that action.  The pick-up is one of the core skills of our code.

[Mickeys beard]

in my book to run into a player who has the ball at speed with the shoulder should be a free and maybe a yellow, depending on the severity of the 'hit'(AFL, rugby?)

I disagree entirely with that.

To charge a player from the front or back who has the ball is a free, as is to behave in a way which is dangerous to an opponent.  A frontal or semi-frontal shoulder,  while common,  I think is the most dangerous tackle you can get.  My point is that we both have differerent views on that one example because the games aren't marshalled according to the rules.