IS JOHN O'MAHONY OVERRATED AS A MANAGER???

[Farrandeelin]

I would take over Angelina's sportshow on MWR and criticise the tiro mentioned stephenite after any given loss!!! 

[seafoid]

Is there any way of breaking the Mayo hoodoo ? How about doing something drastic like focusing on the fellas coming up at underage and building something over 5 years. Downplay the current seniors and write them off so nobody's expectations are unmet. If they win something, it's a bonus. An awful lot of money is just wasted on the senior team. Does Mayo have a top of the range underage system? If not why not?

See how teams from other sports in other countries have  overcome this problem. Schalke 04 are joint top of the Bundesliga under Felix Magath after a long history of collapse at the highest levels. How did they do it? Can Mayo learn anything from it.  Would a manager from a different sport work ?

Even Tyrone- how did they do it? Apparently HMG spent a lot of money on sports facilities to keep the kids away from paramilitarism. Is that something Mayo could look into? Part of the problem in this regard is the high degree of centralisation in Ireland. If Mayo could decide its own taxes it would probably be easier to fix the football.

The county has such a passion for football that the misfiring of the senior team has to be rectified. I wonder if John Casey had scored that point in 96 if it would all be different today.   

[southsidejohnny]

Yes.And in fairness Mayo are helping him find his true level. Worst league final defeat ever. And to think of it; Mayo were once known as the League Specialists. Boylan and Micko changed their selectors and backroom team to keep the set up fresh. Mayo is an old boys club run by an older group of old boys.

[INDIANA]

Ok ... back on track here.

Is JOM overrated?

Not overall and looking back on his achievements across the board, no he's not.
He's had an incredibly successful career and has been a very talented manager in many counties and with different bunches of lads.

However, have his abilities and skills deteriorated in the past few years? I think so, yes.
Perhaps it that the standards of other managers have developed more in the past few years and that he just hasn't kept pace, or perhaps the job is taking more time away from his ability to stay on top of the management role, but I'm not sure he's the same threat recently.

How many Mayo players would Cork/Kerry want?

2/3 tops.

Winning Connacht titles and getting to the quarters/semis with the players they have is all mayo people can expect at present. Maybe JOM is slipping but nobody will win an all-ireland with the current crop of Mayo players with teams like Cork and Kerry around. I see the same in my own county after a decent league campaign. Mayo should have beaten Meath last year. Other than that JOM has done all he can with them in my view.

[Hardy]

Is there any way of breaking the Mayo hoodoo ? How about doing something drastic like focusing on the fellas coming up at underage and building something over 5 years. Downplay the current seniors and write them off so nobody's expectations are unmet. If they win something, it's a bonus.

I think that's the way forward for Mayo. Structure  the Championship like the under-8's. It's about participation, not winning. Everybody gets a game. Scrap the Sam Maguire and give everybody a certificate. You've all done very well.

[Tubberman]

Ok ... back on track here.

Is JOM overrated?

Not overall and looking back on his achievements across the board, no he's not.
He's had an incredibly successful career and has been a very talented manager in many counties and with different bunches of lads.

However, have his abilities and skills deteriorated in the past few years? I think so, yes.
Perhaps it that the standards of other managers have developed more in the past few years and that he just hasn't kept pace, or perhaps the job is taking more time away from his ability to stay on top of the management role, but I'm not sure he's the same threat recently.

How many Mayo players would Cork/Kerry want?

2/3 tops.

Winning Connacht titles and getting to the quarters/semis with the players they have is all mayo people can expect at present. Maybe JOM is slipping but nobody will win an all-ireland with the current crop of Mayo players with teams like Cork and Kerry around. I see the same in my own county after a decent league campaign. Mayo should have beaten Meath last year. Other than that JOM has done all he can with them in my view.

I don't know if any of the non-Mayo posters on this thread (and others) are actually reading or taking in what the Mayo posters have been saying. I don't think anyone in the county is expecting us to win the All-Ireland.
It's been said countless time, all we want and expect is that both the management and players perform to their potential when it matters. If that means losing at the q-final or semi-final or final, fine. Everyone can look back and say they gave it their all to the final whistle and we're proud of them for that.
We did not play to our potential against Meath last year, nor Cork last Sunday (nor 04 or 06 finals, but JOM and many of the current players weren't involved). That's what is so frustrating and disappointing. And that is what is causing a lot of Mayo people to view the county team with cynicism and even derision in some cases. 

[seafoid]

I think that's the way forward for Mayo. Structure  the Championship like the under-8's. It's about participation, not winning. Everybody gets a game. Scrap the Sam Maguire and give everybody a certificate. You've all done very well.

Meath should be able for under 12s surely

[shaund10]

Ok ... back on track here.

Is JOM overrated?

Not overall and looking back on his achievements across the board, no he's not.
He's had an incredibly successful career and has been a very talented manager in many counties and with different bunches of lads.

However, have his abilities and skills deteriorated in the past few years? I think so, yes.
Perhaps it that the standards of other managers have developed more in the past few years and that he just hasn't kept pace, or perhaps the job is taking more time away from his ability to stay on top of the management role, but I'm not sure he's the same threat recently.

How many Mayo players would Cork/Kerry want?

2/3 tops.

Winning Connacht titles and getting to the quarters/semis with the players they have is all mayo people can expect at present. Maybe JOM is slipping but nobody will win an all-ireland with the current crop of Mayo players with teams like Cork and Kerry around. I see the same in my own county after a decent league campaign. Mayo should have beaten Meath last year. Other than that JOM has done all he can with them in my view.

I don't know if any of the non-Mayo posters on this thread (and others) are actually reading or taking in what the Mayo posters have been saying. I don't think anyone in the county is expecting us to win the All-Ireland.
It's been said countless time, all we want and expect is that both the management and players perform to their potential when it matters. If that means losing at the q-final or semi-final or final, fine. Everyone can look back and say they gave it their all to the final whistle and we're proud of them for that.
We did not play to our potential against Meath last year, nor Cork last Sunday (nor 04 or 06 finals, but JOM and many of the current players weren't involved). That's what is so frustrating and disappointing. And that is what is causing a lot of Mayo people to view the county team with cynicism and even derision in some cases.

But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?

I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.

Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?

[muppet]

But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?

I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.

Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?

Mayo have reached an All Ireland Final at some grade for each of the last 6 years. If that doesn't show All Ireland winning "potential" I don't know what does.

[Logan]

Ok ... back on track here.

Is JOM overrated?

Not overall and looking back on his achievements across the board, no he's not.
He's had an incredibly successful career and has been a very talented manager in many counties and with different bunches of lads.

However, have his abilities and skills deteriorated in the past few years? I think so, yes.
Perhaps it that the standards of other managers have developed more in the past few years and that he just hasn't kept pace, or perhaps the job is taking more time away from his ability to stay on top of the management role, but I'm not sure he's the same threat recently.

How many Mayo players would Cork/Kerry want?

2/3 tops.

Winning Connacht titles and getting to the quarters/semis with the players they have is all mayo people can expect at present. Maybe JOM is slipping but nobody will win an all-ireland with the current crop of Mayo players with teams like Cork and Kerry around. I see the same in my own county after a decent league campaign. Mayo should have beaten Meath last year. Other than that JOM has done all he can with them in my view.

I don't know if any of the non-Mayo posters on this thread (and others) are actually reading or taking in what the Mayo posters have been saying. I don't think anyone in the county is expecting us to win the All-Ireland.
It's been said countless time, all we want and expect is that both the management and players perform to their potential when it matters. If that means losing at the q-final or semi-final or final, fine. Everyone can look back and say they gave it their all to the final whistle and we're proud of them for that.
We did not play to our potential against Meath last year, nor Cork last Sunday (nor 04 or 06 finals, but JOM and many of the current players weren't involved). That's what is so frustrating and disappointing. And that is what is causing a lot of Mayo people to view the county team with cynicism and even derision in some cases.

But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?

I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.

Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?

AOS reminds me a little of Joe Sheridan
I would think his career might develop in the same way

[Logan]

But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?

I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.

Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?

Mayo have reached an All Ireland Final at some grade for each of the last 6 years. If that doesn't show All Ireland winning "potential" I don't know what does.

Winning silverware, showing a ruthless streak in championship or beating teams when it counts in championship in Croker?

I know what you're saying - and I agree to some extent - but getting to final's isn't Mayo's problem, but it's obviously missing something else.

I think football and fitness wise Mayo have it all, but there is a ruthless edge missing to convert the potential to silverware.

[INDIANA]

But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?

I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.

Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?

Mayo have reached an All Ireland Final at some grade for each of the last 6 years. If that doesn't show All Ireland winning "potential" I don't know what does.

But as people are saying especially at Senior Level it is very possible to reach an all-ireland final and then meet one of the 2 teams (ie Cork and Kerry) that are 2 levels above every other team out there.
In my view there is nothing between numbers 3-10 out there. But Cork and Kerry are miles ahead. Any team with the right draw in numbers 3-10 can reach the Final. But will be heavily beaten by the two named.
The gap between the top 2 and the rest is astonishing in my view.

[Zulu]

I agree Logan, and I've said for two years now, but Aidan O'shea will not be a top level IC football, a decent one yes but not a top level one.

I disagree that Mayo have the footballers, all those relatively successful underage teams lacked any real quality stars. I remember seeing SON when he was U21 for Tyrone and I thought he'd go on to be a superstar, I didn't see anything similar in those Mayo teams. Last years minor FF I'm told is a great prospect but I've yet to be convinced from what I've seen.

I hate being so negative about the Mayo players but I can't see a top quality FB, center back, midfielder, center forward or scoring forward in Mayo at any level.

[muppet]

But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?

I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.

Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?

Mayo have reached an All Ireland Final at some grade for each of the last 6 years. If that doesn't show All Ireland winning "potential" I don't know what does.

Winning silverware, showing a ruthless streak in championship or beating teams when it counts in championship in Croker?

I know what you're saying - and I agree to some extent - but getting to final's isn't Mayo's problem, but it's obviously missing something else.

I think football and fitness wise Mayo have it all, but there is a ruthless edge missing to convert the potential to silverware.

The question was where is the "potential". If you have won silverware you have upgraded yourself from potential winner to winner.

[INDIANA]

But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?

I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.

Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?

Mayo have reached an All Ireland Final at some grade for each of the last 6 years. If that doesn't show All Ireland winning "potential" I don't know what does.

Winning silverware, showing a ruthless streak in championship or beating teams when it counts in championship in Croker?

I know what you're saying - and I agree to some extent - but getting to final's isn't Mayo's problem, but it's obviously missing something else.

I think football and fitness wise Mayo have it all, but there is a ruthless edge missing to convert the potential to silverware.

I disagree about the ruthless edge -they haven't got enough players of the required standard. Like galway, dublin, armagh etc. I had high hopes for AOS but jesus he's one paced. Maybe it was just one of those days. I think he'll be very good but not sure he'll be top class like I thought he might be. Mayo need him to be top class because he's a different type of player to the ones already there