IS JOHN O'MAHONY OVERRATED AS A MANAGER???

[IolarCoisCuain]

It's my understanding that any football manager would not entertain Aidan Campbell and some of his antics - it's also my understanding that he will never play for Mayo whilst one high profile Co. Board member is still breathing.

Ciaran Mac and A Higgins were too old even three years ago and their inability to listen to instructions and do what they were told counted against them.

JOM has a history of getting the best out of players that want to play for him, young fellas like Campbell should not be entertained and the fact that he's even being discussed shows the desperation that some will go to in order to ridicule the current set up. It might deserve the ridicule after last weekend but can we shut up about players like Ciaran Mac and Higgins (too old) and fcuing Aidan Campbell who has proved f**k all at Senior inter county level.

If Campbell doesn't want to play that's fair enough. Nobody should be made to play if they want to spend their life differently. We get only one spin on the merry-go-round after all, and we all have to make choices.

The reason I mention Campbell has to do with you say in your last paragraph Stephenite. One of the reasons that I believed in O'Mahony originally is because I thought he would not fall out with players the way Maughan fell out with Peter Butler, Kevin O'Neill and David Brady. You say that O'Mahony got the best out of players who wanted to play for him, but you're wrong - O'Mahony got the best out of players who didn't want to play for him, by which I mean Paraic Joyce and the Donnellans. As anyone who saw the 100 Years of Galway Football video can tell you, the Donnellans aren't easy men to deal with.

When he was doing his radio show in 2005 O'Mahony said that if he were Mayo manager he camp morning, noon and night outside David Brady's house to get Brady back on the panel. So O'Mahony certainly was willing to meet players half way. The evidence is there. But is he willing to do it any more?

This is what it comes down to. There is a feeling growing in the county now that O'Mahony's man management skills are not working. Campbell might be an exception, but the Tom Parsons decline has been frightening. What's going here, and what's Johnno doing to fix it? That's what I want to know, and I still maintain my right to ask that question. I think the people of Mayo have a right to know.

[seafoid]

Christ, there was a Mayo lad sitting near me in the Hogan Stand and I wanted to go over and give him a hug.

I know that feeling. It's the same as watching the Sun building up the England football team before a major championship. This time is different. This time there is JT or whoever.  You know what is going to happen but you also know they can't stop it. You know the Germans/Kerry will win. You know it will end in self critical introspection and bitching but that nothing can be done by anyone. 

Apparently Schalke 04 have the same illness.

[Barney]

John O'Mahony is better than a lucky general. An u21 with Mayo. u21 and Senior All Irelands with Galway. A Connacht Championship with Leitrim. In fairness whatever our reservations now he has an excellent track-record. But maybe the game has passed him by. And maybe his burning desire and commitment has gone, and been muddied by a life in politics which would take up most of any man's time. And maybe his loyalty has left him exposed - no change in trainers, or back room team does not bode well.

His record in Croke Park since the 2001 Final is also alarming:

2002

Kerry 2.17 Galway 1.12

2003

Galway 1.11 Donegal 0.14 (Replay was lost in Castlebar)

2004

Galway 0.11 Tyrone 1.16

2007

Galway 1.12 Mayo 2.10
Donegal 0.13 Mayo 0.10

2008

Mayo 1.9 Tyrone 0.13

2009

Mayo 1.15 Meath 2.15

and then 2010

Cork 1.17 Mayo 0.12

So the record is a win in a league semi-final, a draw in an AI Quarter Final and 6 defeats.

[rossie mad]

My answer to the title of the thread is johhno overrated i personally dont think so as i believe his record does the talking.

However i do believe he is getting an easy ride in terms of criticism in mayo and nationwide as well.
I class mayo as being in the aristocracy of intercounty football.
Up there with kerry,dublin,cork,galway,tyrone,derry,meath and down in terms of expectations every year and what is expected of them.
Nearly every year in the last twenty these counties are named as potential all ireland winners.
Yet when they dont its almost inevitable that the managemnet has questions asked of it and gets some level of criticism both within their county and nationwide.
Caffrey despite dublins dominance of leinster got it,micky harte got it in the years tyrone didnt win,christ even jack o connor got it.
However for some reason the bold johhno seems to slip under the radar and is happy to see his players take the flack.

Obviously when any side loses its not all the managements fault both they do have to accept some responsibility in terms of selection,tactics and decision making during game time.
Johnno again seems immune to all this.
I think if o mahoney got the odd roasting from within mayo from the media or even indeed nationwide you might see a different approach but that doesnt seem to be the case.

For the record i dont read too much into last sunday in terms of championship expectations.
I would sooner be in mayos shoes in terms of the cover of the long grass than the level of expectation now on corks shoulders.

Mayo are on the ultra competitive side of the connacht draw his year.
They have to meet a sligo team capable of beating anyone if in the mood and if they get over that they meet a galway side which should have some added steel to it and if they get over that hurdle a connacht final more than likely beckons against leitrim (who i believe will beat roscommon) and for obvious reasons leitrim will be all out to win connacht this year.

So mayos championship will have a tough demension to it even before the niity gritty end of it in august.
Compare that to cork which more than likely be a tough game against a depleted kerry side id sooner be in the mayo camp if they come through all the first hurdles.

[seafoid]

John O'Mahony is better than a lucky general. An u21 with Mayo. u21 and Senior All Irelands with Galway. A Connacht Championship with Leitrim. In fairness whatever our reservations now he has an excellent track-record. But maybe the game has passed him by. And maybe his burning desire and commitment has gone, and been muddied by a life in politics which would take up most of any man's time. And maybe his loyalty has left him exposed - no change in trainers, or back room team does not bode well.

Maybe he is out of touch. On the other hand maybe Mayo just don't have the players at the moment. Meath got rid of Boylan but what difference did it make to Meath ?  The Dubs keep on winning devalued Leinster titles.

[deiseach]

I know that feeling. It's the same as watching the Sun building up the England football team before a major championship. This time is different. This time there is JT or whoever.  You know what is going to happen but you also know they can't stop it. You know the Germans/Kerry will win. You know it will end in self critical introspection and bitching but that nothing can be done by anyone. 

You have a point. I've being building up Mrs d's hopes about the World Cup, the delight in her face at the thought is wonderful. Upon reflection, perhaps I should be damping down her hopes

[seafoid]

You have a point. I've being building up Mrs d's hopes about the World Cup, the delight in her face at the thought is wonderful. Upon reflection, perhaps I should be damping down her hopes

It was just inviting Schadenfreude to sing about thirty years of hurt, to try to put a limit on it. Jules Rimet's still gleaming but not for England. Not even the overleveraged Premiership can overcome the mental demons.  And they all pile in on the bandwagon every time. And hail the manager they discard months later as a loser. I'll never forget the treatment Graham Taylor got. It was repeated for every single successor.

It's no coincidence that the Germans or the Italians  get to the final once in every 2 tournaments while England hasn't been in a final since 1966.  I blame neoliberalism.

[GaillimhIarthair]

John O'Mahony is better than a lucky general. An u21 with Mayo. u21 and Senior All Irelands with Galway. A Connacht Championship with Leitrim. In fairness whatever our reservations now he has an excellent track-record. But maybe the game has passed him by. And maybe his burning desire and commitment has gone, and been muddied by a life in politics which would take up most of any man's time. And maybe his loyalty has left him exposed - no change in trainers, or back room team does not bode well.

I think that is it in a nutshell Barney.  The modern game HAS passed him by and I believe it happened during his latter years with us where he was not able to adapt to the new tactics brought to the table by the likes of Armagh and Tyrone.  It even took Kerry a few years to adapt but in fairness to Jack O'Connor he has improved them in that regard and they have bagged another few titles.

I also believe that Mayo have quite a few holes in their team (no more than ourselves!) that need to be addressed before ye are All Ireland material and to be honest I dont think them players are available in the county at this present moment in time.  Its my opinion that ye are struggling at 3, 6, midfield I'm not convinced about, 11 (Dillon is a wing forward) and 14 (O'Shea is not smart enough for that position yet).  Mayo's marquee forward over the past 2 years has been Alan Dillon  and other than him I wouldnt trust any of the rest of them on a big day in Croke Park.  The likes of Cork, Kerry and Tyrone have at least 3 go to guys on any given day and hence they will be in the shake up again this year.

In the short term JOM has a big job on his hands to lift the confidence of the players ahead of the trip to Sligo.  That will  not be an easy feat and it may ultimately define Mayo's season and possibly his tenure at the helm of Mayo football.

[shaund10]

I said earlier on in this thread that Johnno was lucky with the timing he entered Galway, but I cant for the life of me see what he was done wrong in Mayo.

Ye won a Connacht title last year and should have beaten Meath. But that would have been it, Kerry won have done their usual job in the semi final. A good year, all in all.

What are ye guys expecting? An All Ireland? Seriously? Ye simply dont have the players. Name me one truly top class player Mayo have in their ranks? A player who could take an All Ireland final by the scruff of the neck and stand above the rest like O'Se, Cavanagh, Cooper, Joyce, Giles, Fallon and Fitzgearld have done in the past?

Mayo have 15 good solid footballers. Not the class to win an All Ireland. Aim for a Connacht title, and a semi-final spot. And be happy with it.

The only thing you could possibly blame Johnno for is the McDonald situation. Your one class player.

[Hardy]

Ye ... should have beaten Meath.

All right. This now seems to have become dogma. Will somebody do me a favour and explain the theory behind this extraordinary doctrine?

[supersarsfields]

Ye ... should have beaten Meath.

All right. This now seems to have become dogma. Will somebody do me a favour and explain the theory behind this extraordinary doctrine?

Every one should and as hard as possible!! 

[Barney]

Well for a start Joe McQuillan's errors lead to a 7 point turnaround. Without those Mayo would have one.

However Mayo fans have always blamed that result more on the inept performance. If those decisions had gone in Mayo's favour the performance was still sub-standard and it would have been pure luck to have got over the line. That was a poor Meath team that any half-decent team expecting to get to an All ireland Semi should have beaten. We were nto half-decent.

There are many issues with JOM and what he has done in his term in charge which I will come back to.

[IolarCoisCuain]

I said earlier on in this thread that Johnno was lucky with the timing he entered Galway, but I cant for the life of me see what he was done wrong in Mayo.

Ye won a Connacht title last year and should have beaten Meath. But that would have been it, Kerry won have done their usual job in the semi final. A good year, all in all.

What are ye guys expecting? An All Ireland? Seriously? Ye simply dont have the players. Name me one truly top class player Mayo have in their ranks? A player who could take an All Ireland final by the scruff of the neck and stand above the rest like O'Se, Cavanagh, Cooper, Joyce, Giles, Fallon and Fitzgearld have done in the past?

Mayo have 15 good solid footballers. Not the class to win an All Ireland. Aim for a Connacht title, and a semi-final spot. And be happy with it.

The only thing you could possibly blame Johnno for is the McDonald situation. Your one class player.

This is something that I've been thinking about, especially in the light of something Zulu said earlier, about needing one great player in an All-Ireland team.

Everyone here can name Cooper or Cavanagh or whoever, because they've done it and it can't be denied them. But I wonder - does anybody fancy naming a similarly outstanding player from a team that is yet to win an All-Ireland, but who will win an All-Ireland because of this man's presence? If Mayo "don't have the players," I'm curious to know who does, among those counties who have not won All-Irelands in the past decade, say.

Zulu, we all love you, but you're barred from naming the entire Cork panel. You'll only get excited and make a mess.

Seriously though, does the nation believe that only Kerry, Cork and Tyrone can win the All-Ireland? Has it come to this?

[Logan]

I said earlier on in this thread that Johnno was lucky with the timing he entered Galway, but I cant for the life of me see what he was done wrong in Mayo.

Ye won a Connacht title last year and should have beaten Meath. But that would have been it, Kerry won have done their usual job in the semi final. A good year, all in all.

What are ye guys expecting? An All Ireland? Seriously? Ye simply dont have the players. Name me one truly top class player Mayo have in their ranks? A player who could take an All Ireland final by the scruff of the neck and stand above the rest like O'Se, Cavanagh, Cooper, Joyce, Giles, Fallon and Fitzgearld have done in the past?

Mayo have 15 good solid footballers. Not the class to win an All Ireland. Aim for a Connacht title, and a semi-final spot. And be happy with it.

The only thing you could possibly blame Johnno for is the McDonald situation. Your one class player.

This is something that I've been thinking about, especially in the light of something Zulu said earlier, about needing one great player in an All-Ireland team.

Everyone here can name Cooper or Cavanagh or whoever, because they've done it and it can't be denied them. But I wonder - does anybody fancy naming a similarly outstanding player from a team that is yet to win an All-Ireland, but who will win an All-Ireland because of this man's presence? If Mayo "don't have the players," I'm curious to know who does, among those counties who have not won All-Irelands in the past decade, say.

Zulu, we all love you, but you're barred from naming the entire Cork panel. You'll only get excited and make a mess.

Seriously though, does the nation believe that only Kerry, Cork and Tyrone can win the All-Ireland? Has it come to this?

Not sure I agree with that argument.


Try the opposite side ...



Any team that wins an All Ireland is very, very good, with excellent players - and with some exceptional players, but a few I'd argue it should be possible to win All Irelands without 'greats' such as Cooper/God etc.

How many teams
(A) won All Irelands without 'stand-out' players such as Cooper/God etc?*
(B) won All Irelands with very good players of a similarly very good/excellent standard


*(And don't name players who were 'greats' after ... I mean before the success)

[GaillimhIarthair]

I said earlier on in this thread that Johnno was lucky with the timing he entered Galway, but I cant for the life of me see what he was done wrong in Mayo.

Ye won a Connacht title last year and should have beaten Meath. But that would have been it, Kerry won have done their usual job in the semi final. A good year, all in all.

What are ye guys expecting? An All Ireland? Seriously? Ye simply dont have the players. Name me one truly top class player Mayo have in their ranks? A player who could take an All Ireland final by the scruff of the neck and stand above the rest like O'Se, Cavanagh, Cooper, Joyce, Giles, Fallon and Fitzgearld have done in the past?

Mayo have 15 good solid footballers. Not the class to win an All Ireland. Aim for a Connacht title, and a semi-final spot. And be happy with it.

The only thing you could possibly blame Johnno for is the McDonald situation. Your one class player.

This is something that I've been thinking about, especially in the light of something Zulu said earlier, about needing one great player in an All-Ireland team.

Everyone here can name Cooper or Cavanagh or whoever, because they've done it and it can't be denied them. But I wonder - does anybody fancy naming a similarly outstanding player from a team that is yet to win an All-Ireland, but who will win an All-Ireland because of this man's presence? If Mayo "don't have the players," I'm curious to know who does, among those counties who have not won All-Irelands in the past decade, say.

Zulu, we all love you, but you're barred from naming the entire Cork panel. You'll only get excited and make a mess.

Seriously though, does the nation believe that only Kerry, Cork and Tyrone can win the All-Ireland? Has it come to this?

I am not sure about the rest of the nation ICC but I cannot see any other outstanding candidates on the horizon this year other than the 3 mentioned above .  It has been worse in the past!  Have a look at the roll of honour between '74  and '86!!  Bar one blip in '82 (and well deserved it was too) it was the same 2 teams year in year out.