IS JOHN O'MAHONY OVERRATED AS A MANAGER???

[Logan]

But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?

I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.

Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?

Mayo have reached an All Ireland Final at some grade for each of the last 6 years. If that doesn't show All Ireland winning "potential" I don't know what does.

Winning silverware, showing a ruthless streak in championship or beating teams when it counts in championship in Croker?

I know what you're saying - and I agree to some extent - but getting to final's isn't Mayo's problem, but it's obviously missing something else.

I think football and fitness wise Mayo have it all, but there is a ruthless edge missing to convert the potential to silverware.

The question was where is the "potential". If you have won silverware you have upgraded yourself from potential winner to winner.

Yes, I'm suggesting the ruthless streak to get that upgrade is what they miss

[muppet]

If there's one thing Mayo needs its lectures in easy answers.

[Logan]

I agree Logan, and I've said for two years now, but Aidan O'shea will not be a top level IC football, a decent one yes but not a top level one.

I disagree that Mayo have the footballers, all those relatively successful underage teams lacked any real quality stars. I remember seeing SON when he was U21 for Tyrone and I thought he'd go on to be a superstar, I didn't see anything similar in those Mayo teams. Last years minor FF I'm told is a great prospect but I've yet to be convinced from what I've seen.

I hate being so negative about the Mayo players but I can't see a top quality FB, center back, midfielder, center forward or scoring forward in Mayo at any level.

Yeh, well I was trying to be polite about AOS - but you see what I see in him (or don't see for that matter).

Mayo's best chance was when Nallen and Brady were there, because they did have that cutting up in them.

I think they have enough good footballers to get out of Connacht.

[Logan]

If there's one thing Mayo needs its lectures in easy answers.

Got enough of them anyway

[shaund10]

But how good do you think your potential is? Granted, you probably had the better footballers against Meath, but you still would have been beaten by Kerry in the Semi.
No team would have beaten Cork at the weekend. They were simply too good. If Mayo had played to their potential, what would have been different? Gotten a few points closer or something?

I would say that Mayo played to their full potential against Galway in the Connacht final last year. Yet it still took 2 soft goals and an underperforming Galway side to beat them by a point.

Maybe there is stuff going on in Mayo club games that the rest of us dont see. But as far as the rest are concerned, Mayo have 15 good footballers, none of them outstanding, or with the potential to be outstanding (AOS apart in time). Where is this "potential" coming from?

Mayo have reached an All Ireland Final at some grade for each of the last 6 years. If that doesn't show All Ireland winning "potential" I don't know what does.

Yes but the only ones that stood out to me that looked like being a star at senior level were AOS and that Keane lad, i think, that handled Barry John Walsh. And even so, there's only a small chance that they will go on to top class.

You are unlucky in one respect, that the one player who looked nailed on for stardom is out living the dream in Australia

[rosnarun]

not a thing wrong with mayo's underage structures. our genearl success rate stands up to anyones in that regard sure they have lost final but to alsorts of different teams down armagh cork kerry ect
At un 16there a re 3 levels of development regimes and 2 Ted webb cup teams.
The only conclusion i can come to is there is no easy answer, and no amount of  saying: 'time to bite the bullet' , 'sack the board' sack the manager clear out the older players clear out the younger players ec ect ect : is of any use . MAyo just have to be patient and keep doing as many of the right things as they can and make sure they have all the best players in the Squad at all time with the best trainers and best facilities.
you can say that mayo players are not good enough but does any one really think that mayo playing at 100% + on sunday would not have beaten that cork team who were probably only at 80% them selves.
that eejit colm keys in the indo stated Corks second team could have beaten mayo well thats one thing we know not to be true

[Zulu]

Do we? that second string cork team had a lot of players who have played in senior AI finals.

[BallyhaiseMan]

not a thing wrong with mayo's underage structures. our genearl success rate stands up to anyones in that regard sure they have lost final but to alsorts of different teams down armagh cork kerry ect
At un 16there a re 3 levels of development regimes and 2 Ted webb cup teams.
The only conclusion i can come to is there is no easy answer, and no amount of  saying: 'time to bite the bullet' , 'sack the board' sack the manager clear out the older players clear out the younger players ec ect ect : is of any use . MAyo just have to be patient and keep doing as many of the right things as they can and make sure they have all the best players in the Squad at all time with the best trainers and best facilities.
you can say that mayo players are not good enough but does any one really think that mayo playing at 100% + on sunday would not have beaten that cork team who were probably only at 80% them selves.
that eejit colm keys in the indo stated Corks second team could have beaten mayo well thats one thing we know not to be true

Mayo played against nearly half of Cork's second string last Sunday and gota beating,Keys may or may not be wrong in that suggestion,but you cant say for sure that its not true.
Where do you get this mayo playing at 100% would beat Cork at 80%?
This supremely talented Cork team are much too good for Mayo,anyone who thinks Mayo at their peak could even trouble this Cork team is kidding themselves.

[Main Street]

If the game was played in Cork, then I'd back Mayo against a second string Cork team.

[Chimley]

not a thing wrong with mayo's underage structures. our genearl success rate stands up to anyones in that regard sure they have lost final but to alsorts of different teams down armagh cork kerry ect
At un 16there a re 3 levels of development regimes and 2 Ted webb cup teams.
The only conclusion i can come to is there is no easy answer, and no amount of  saying: 'time to bite the bullet' , 'sack the board' sack the manager clear out the older players clear out the younger players ec ect ect : is of any use . MAyo just have to be patient and keep doing as many of the right things as they can and make sure they have all the best players in the Squad at all time with the best trainers and best facilities.
you can say that mayo players are not good enough but does any one really think that mayo playing at 100% + on sunday would not have beaten that cork team who were probably only at 80% them selves.
that eejit colm keys in the indo stated Corks second team could have beaten mayo well thats one thing we know not to be true

Mayo played against nearly half of Cork's second string last Sunday and gota beating,Keys may or may not be wrong in that suggestion,but you cant say for sure that its not true.
Where do you get this mayo playing at 100% would beat Cork at 80%?
This supremely talented Cork team are much too good for Mayo,anyone who thinks Mayo at their peak could even trouble this Cork team is kidding themselves.

You see this is part of the problem. When you are constantly told that you are not fit to share the pitch with other teams it has a drip, drip effect. This is what JOM was referring to when he said that this team can only be responsible for their own defeats. No young players (and there are quite a few on this team) should be unfairly burdened by the ghosts of the past. There is a certain whiff of condescension in some of the posters from other counties (honourable exceptions like Zulu,Indiana) regarding Mayo. Cast your mind back to the all-ireland hurling final in 2008. Waterford took the worst beating ever witnessed in Croke park and yet they were not treated as shabbily as Mayo always seem to be. The game was only two minutes old on Sunday when Martin McHugh was revelling in the 'typical Mayo forwards' speech.

[Logan]

Do we? that second string cork team had a lot of players who have played in senior AI finals.

I'd be thinking the same way. Especially in a final too, I know who I'd not be backing

[muppet]

Agreed.

Also it is time to stop surmising what might have been if we had won in 1996. Look at the hurling Champions from that year. They celebrated like it was the end of the world. (I lived with a quiet lad from Wexford who 'disappeared' for weeks. He never missed a day from work before that but his work were getting worried by the Thursday. He had some stories when he came back).

They have fallen from the top table of hurling and recently lost to Carlow.

Equally look at the team they beat that day, Limerick.

Both teams, like Mayo, had gone a long time without an All Ireland title. Both teams have fallen away in what is a much smaller playing pool.

Mayo deserve massive credit for bouncing back over and over regardless. I'd love a title as much as the next man but would a win in 1996 mean so much now if we were losing to Carlow and way off the pace in our Province?

Rather than being Wexford or Limerick hurlers I would like to see us more as Munster rugby before the breakthrough. The supporters always stuck with them and whatever about now there was a great romance about the pursuit of the 'Holy Grail'.

[Logan]

not a thing wrong with mayo's underage structures. our genearl success rate stands up to anyones in that regard sure they have lost final but to alsorts of different teams down armagh cork kerry ect
At un 16there a re 3 levels of development regimes and 2 Ted webb cup teams.
The only conclusion i can come to is there is no easy answer, and no amount of  saying: 'time to bite the bullet' , 'sack the board' sack the manager clear out the older players clear out the younger players ec ect ect : is of any use . MAyo just have to be patient and keep doing as many of the right things as they can and make sure they have all the best players in the Squad at all time with the best trainers and best facilities.
you can say that mayo players are not good enough but does any one really think that mayo playing at 100% + on sunday would not have beaten that cork team who were probably only at 80% them selves.
that eejit colm keys in the indo stated Corks second team could have beaten mayo well thats one thing we know not to be true

Mayo played against nearly half of Cork's second string last Sunday and gota beating,Keys may or may not be wrong in that suggestion,but you cant say for sure that its not true.
Where do you get this mayo playing at 100% would beat Cork at 80%?
This supremely talented Cork team are much too good for Mayo,anyone who thinks Mayo at their peak could even trouble this Cork team is kidding themselves.

You see this is part of the problem. When you are constantly told that you are not fit to share the pitch with other teams it has a drip, drip effect. This is what JOM was referring to when he said that this team can only be responsible for their own defeats. No young players (and there are quite a few on this team) should be unfairly burdened by the ghosts of the past. There is a certain whiff of condescension in some of the posters from other counties (honourable exceptions like Zulu,Indiana) regarding Mayo. Cast your mind back to the all-ireland hurling final in 2009. Waterford took the worst beating ever witnessed in Croke park and yet they were not treated as shabbily as Mayo always seem to be. The game was only two minutes old on Sunday when Martin McHugh was revelling in the 'typical Mayo forwards' speech.

That's a fair point.

From a Mayo perspective, looking forward, I would point to Tyrone.

20/25 years ago they were the 'Mayo of Ulster', if not Ireland, they couldn't finish a team for love nor money, but they kept at it and few would deny they developed a ruthless streak - but there was a mindset change that had to happen.

And to really throw the cat among the pigeons now ... while someone brought up Cork, from a psychological point of view Cork have choked a few times too many against Kerry on big days - so I guess glass houses, stones etc. Even Cork people would admit that I suspect in their quieter moments.


The point is ... all counties can go through phases, it's a matter of finding the switch to flick it out of that mindset.

(I personally was sad to see JK go to Galway, as he's the one man I think has the killer instinct that might have flipped that switch.... but that's for another day)

[Logan]

Agreed.

Also it is time to stop surmising what might have been if we had won in 1996. Look at the hurling Champions from that year. They celebrated like it was the end of the world. (I lived with a quiet lad from Wexford who 'disappeared' for weeks. He never missed a day from work before that but his work were getting worried by the Thursday. He had some stories when he came back).

They have fallen from the top table of hurling and recently lost to Carlow.

Equally look at the team they beat that day, Limerick.

Both teams, like Mayo, had gone a long time without an All Ireland title. Both teams have fallen away in what is a much smaller playing pool.

Mayo deserve massive credit for bouncing back over and over regardless. I'd love a title as much as the next man but would a win in 1996 mean so much now if we were losing to Carlow and way off the pace in our Province?

Rather than being Wexford or Limerick hurlers I would like to see us more as Munster rugby before the breakthrough. The supporters always stuck with them and whatever about now there was a great romance about the pursuit of the 'Holy Grail'.

2 points on that -

1. It is a credit that Mayo are always there or thereabouts

2. If and when the breakthrough comes it bodes well for a conveyor belt and steady stream of quality Mayo teams and quality footballers, who then know nothing but a winning mentality.

[BallyhaiseMan]

not a thing wrong with mayo's underage structures. our genearl success rate stands up to anyones in that regard sure they have lost final but to alsorts of different teams down armagh cork kerry ect
At un 16there a re 3 levels of development regimes and 2 Ted webb cup teams.
The only conclusion i can come to is there is no easy answer, and no amount of  saying: 'time to bite the bullet' , 'sack the board' sack the manager clear out the older players clear out the younger players ec ect ect : is of any use . MAyo just have to be patient and keep doing as many of the right things as they can and make sure they have all the best players in the Squad at all time with the best trainers and best facilities.
you can say that mayo players are not good enough but does any one really think that mayo playing at 100% + on sunday would not have beaten that cork team who were probably only at 80% them selves.
that eejit colm keys in the indo stated Corks second team could have beaten mayo well thats one thing we know not to be true

Mayo played against nearly half of Cork's second string last Sunday and gota beating,Keys may or may not be wrong in that suggestion,but you cant say for sure that its not true.
Where do you get this mayo playing at 100% would beat Cork at 80%?
This supremely talented Cork team are much too good for Mayo,anyone who thinks Mayo at their peak could even trouble this Cork team is kidding themselves.

You see this is part of the problem. When you are constantly told that you are not fit to share the pitch with other teams it has a drip, drip effect. This is what JOM was referring to when he said that this team can only be responsible for their own defeats. No young players (and there are quite a few on this team) should be unfairly burdened by the ghosts of the past. There is a certain whiff of condescension in some of the posters from other counties (honourable exceptions like Zulu,Indiana) regarding Mayo. Cast your mind back to the all-ireland hurling final in 2008. Waterford took the worst beating ever witnessed in Croke park and yet they were not treated as shabbily as Mayo always seem to be. The game was only two minutes old on Sunday when Martin McHugh was revelling in the 'typical Mayo forwards' speech.

Chimley, saying Mayo are not fit for Cork is not a slight whatseoever on the Mayo men,the fact is this Cork team is reckoned to be the most talented in the country and some people(Zulu especially  ) would say by a long shot and id agree with them.
Mayo competed better with Cork than probably 25 counties would.
Ive said my part in the other thread(or maybe in this one earlier on,i dont know) , that i believe JOM's management/coaching/game plan is obselete at this level and that this Mayo team could be much better with a modern coaching/game plan,i believe at this time Mayo are an above average team under O Mahoney,i think they could be a very good team under better management.Even then i dont think they could beat this Cork team,unless Cork had an serious offday,such is the ability in that cork panel.
Mayo have better talent in my opinion than all the other counties bar
Cork
Kerry
Tyrone
they would be on a similar level to the likes of Dublin/Galway/Armagh etc.
Also theres certainly no condescending attitude towards Mayo from myself,im from a county way down the food chain from Mayo,who could only wish to be a top 8 team,id always follow the Mayo men,alongside other traditionalists(Down/Roscommon etc) when my own lot were knocked out.