The Battle for Fermanagh and South Tyrone

[ziggysego]

Maguire just accept it, the people of West Belfast trust Gerry on his performance, as do the people of West Tyrone, Mid Ulster, FST, Newry & Armagh trust their representatives. I'll not go into the other constituancies as it's like rubbing salt into... You can spout the same auld shite that the stoops have been spouting but it won't change the results.
Suck an applejack and move on.

The usual mature response. I was only asking the question. I'm not sure what Gerry has delivered for West Belfast. I have no desire to change the outcome of the democratic outcome - I'm just interested to know the motivation of the WB voters, given what happened in the East. There's no need to be so sensitive.

Ya see, all you were able to suggest was "not voting or spoiling your vote". It's not really going to happen.
In the east, Naomi is "the wee girl from the east who has been on every doorstep" which is a reasonable alternative to Peter Robinson.

You could cut my balls off before I'd even think about giving a vote to that odious wee cnut standing for the SDLP in west Belfast.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8675766.stm

Trying to incease his profile I see.

[lynchbhoy]

I take it back - I'm reliably informed that Bundoran is full of deckchair republicans.

....meanwhile the real 'death merchants' are the politicians of Longford ! 

(eg PK  )

[lynchbhoy]

What I can't square is Sinn Fein don't recognise the Wesminster British seat but take part in the vote. It is like they kind of recognise it and are proud to call their members MPs. I think it should be one or other... abstain totally or go into Westminster. Frank Maguire and Bernadette Devlin went to Westminster although I am not sure what the reaction was to that. Certainly they got enough nationalist-Republican votes to get in. If Sinn Fein decided tomorrow it will go in and take their seats thousands who are against it would suddenly agree with it. People need to stop being sheep and hanging onto every word a party says.
Also is not the 26 counties an artificial state imposed by British rule and they recoginse that government by taking their seat...   just seems very contradictory, but maybe life ain't that black and white. (Just thinking out loud...)

There are many reasons for SF to stand for Westminster & abstain.

A unionist bloc of 15-18 MPs as it would have been in previous decades would be much more powerful lobbying group in today's hung parliament environment. The Sf seats lessen the impact of the unionists.

Expenses, secretarial costs, London accommodation .

I would suspect the MP moniker gives greater access in Westminster for lobbying government decision makers on bread & butter issues, as well as the more strategic united Ireland agenda.

Internationally it also adds gravitas to lobbying foreign government for support.

maybe SF are also actually being really GREEN and eco-friendly with a decision to save on air miles and carbon pollution and stay at home and not go to westminister ! 

[Billys Boots]

I take it back - I'm reliably informed that Bundoran is full of deckchair republicans.

....meanwhile the real 'death merchants' are the politicians of Longford ! 

(eg PK  )

Did ye hear that Mae Sexton has 'swung' from the PDs to Labour - who said political ideology is dead? 

[lynchbhoy]

I take it back - I'm reliably informed that Bundoran is full of deckchair republicans.

....meanwhile the real 'death merchants' are the politicians of Longford ! 

(eg PK  )

Did ye hear that Mae Sexton has 'swung' from the PDs to Labour - who said political ideology is dead? 

shes not an undertaker as well ?

political ideology - sure these feckin chancers wouldnt kow their own manifestos or party mantras let alone a whole party political ideology !
(apart from a few hard liners like Emmett Stagg and real left wingers etc)

[Nally Stand]

No matter what you say nally, the fact remains Sf are still administering, implementing and even creating British rule in the north.  Whatever happened to 'No return to Stormont'?

Translation: that's a fairly damning list of shame you have there nally, but no matter what facts you adduce, I'll just stick to the only stick that I can beat the Shinners with in relation to the north... they took seats in Stormont. *

* This translation of ardmhacaabu-speak is a free service 

And what a service it is. Go raibh mile

[Nally Stand]

Whats an armchair republican?

I am surprised you never heard the expression before.  The term is used to describe people who talk and argue about republicanism and try to show off to their mates about how big of a republican they are when in reality they have never got off their armchair/barstool/computer chair to do anything for 'the cause'

On reflection, the term ceasefire soldier may describe people such as nally etc.  In case you don't know what that is, that's someone who popped up as a republican after the ceasefire and usually refers to people who never did anything pre-ceasefire.  Armchair republican/ceasefire soldier, it amounts to the same thing really in my view.  Those who talk about fighting and that and have never done a thing to support their convictions

So basically, you have a problem with SF supposed links to armed force, a problem with those who supported armed force but not SF, and a problem with those who supported SF but didn't join the IRA? Why you just plain hate anyone to do with Sinn Fein don't you. Get over yourself.

As for your question "Why am I even being asked about the SDLP.  I wasn't discussing them", I'll clarify that you did discuss them when you stated "I am now asking you to qualify how you can say that the SDLP are a Unionist party". I gave you seventeen good reasons. You failed to discuss them so I may post them again for you....

SDLP UNIONISM IN SEVENTEEN EASY TO FOLLOW STEPS:
1. "We are a Post Nationalist Party" (Mark Durkan)
The phrase which sums up th SDLP westminster campaign of 2001. Describing themselves as post nationalist seems to have been the turning point in that key election and they have never properly recovered.

3. http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhqlidcwmhsn/
- In this instance they showed a complete disregard for the mandate given to SF by their voters and showed their level of committment to nationalism by joining a dirty pact with the two unionist parties. This was evidenced at a local level in my own are also at several recent elections. Coming from a Republican area, the SDLP in my local polling station often had a tactic of objecting to as many people as possible inside the station in the evening time; thereby preventing the lines of people still in the queue outside from voting once closing time came.

4. Attitude to All Ireland co-operation and voting rights for Irish Citizens in the north in Irish Presidential Elections
- As I pointed out on this board before, When SF proposed, in 13 councils, that these councils press the Dublin Govn to be more proactive in developing All Ireland strategies and for voting rights for people in the north in Irish Presidential Elections, only two got full SDLP support, the rest either got a split SDLP vote, SDLP members abstaining, SDLP refusing to attend etc. Even their party whips could not encourage their membership to give their full support to it. How can this party be trusted to stand up for Irish Unity when even the idea of increased All Ireland strategies/co-operation is too much for them to handle?

The Unionists of the SDLP also:

5. Felt that equality had been achieved in the 1980's claiming this equality was "now a reality"

6. Takes an oath of allegience to a British monarchy all to have the right to sit in Westminster, despite rarely attending anyway

7. Stated that they have "have no difficulty with a continuing MI5 role" in the north of Ireland

8. Voted in favour of 28 day detention

9. In 2006, argued in favour of diplock courts stating it was "essential that adequate provision for non-jury trials for appropriate offences in Northern Ireland is maintained"

10. Supported Irish citizens in the north being legally compelled to be included in a "British National Identity Register".

11. Regarded Ronnie Flanagan as a man who "wanted to edge policing forward"

12. Opposed Derry Council proceeding with its stated policy of petitioning the Privy Council to restore the name of Derry to the city

13. Assisted the Orange Order in having their joint unionist candidate capture the Fermanagh/South Tyrone seat just to avoid a SF member taking the seat. (Thankfully the people showed them the middle finger on this one.)

14. Sends a member of it's Assembly team on a British Ministry of Defence trip to Afghanistan

15. Voted in in the Assembly for increased pensions for the RUC Part-Time Reservists

16. Voted in Belfast City Council for the placing of dozens of British Army plaques, including two UDR plaques around the walls inside City Hall.

17. For years claimed allegations of collusion between the British state and Loyalist gangs was "republican propeganda"

[Franko]

Be careful Nally.  If your argument becomes too compelling the clown will just ignore you.

Then the readers of the thread would have nobody to laugh at. 

[Nally Stand]

Be careful Nally.  If your argument becomes to compelling the clown will just ignore you.

Then the readers of the thread would have nobody to laugh at. 

Oh s**t your right

[Maguire01]

17 reasons why you don't like the SDLP, 17 reasons where they're not in line with SF policy or 17 reasons why the SDLP didn't cooperate with SF does not mean they're a Unionist party! Your grasp of the concepts of unionism or nationalism appears very narrow.

[Nally Stand]

No, seventeen reasons why the SDLP can be seen as unionist. If I was to give reasons why I dont like them, I could also put forward that they have ZERO involvement in my largely nationalist/republican area/community and yet appear on the doorstep expecting a vote at election time amongst many many other reasons.

And if my concept of unionism was narrow, I'd have included one or maybe two examples. I have included examples which demonstrate the SDLP making what can only be described as unionist responses to what is actually a wide range of aspects including policing, equality, oaths to the British Queen, All Ireland Co-Operation, the british army etc. As for ardmhacaabu's question as to why the SDLP are unionist, I understand his silence on these seventeen points. It's hard to defend the indefensible.

[mountainboii]

Sixteen reasons really.

[gallsman]

No, seventeen reasons why the SDLP can be seen as unionist. If I was to give reasons why I dont like them, I could also put forward that they have ZERO involvement in my largely nationalist/republican area/community and yet appear on the doorstep expecting a vote at election time amongst many many other reasons.

And if my concept of unionism was narrow, I'd have included one or maybe two examples. I have included examples which demonstrate the SDLP making what can only be described as unionist responses to what is actually a wide range of aspects including policing, equality, oaths to the British Queen, All Ireland Co-Operation, the british army etc. As for ardmhacaabu's question as to why the SDLP are unionist, I understand his silence on these seventeen points. It's hard to defend the indefensible.

Yet you don't believe helping to administer British rule in the north is Unionist?!

[Maguire01]

These 'reasons' don't make the SDLP Unionists. Are they working to maintain the Union? Are they opposing a United Ireland (and I don't just mean SF policies)?

[magickingdom]

Whats an armchair republican?

I am surprised you never heard the expression before.  The term is used to describe people who talk and argue about republicanism and try to show off to their mates about how big of a republican they are when in reality they have never got off their armchair/barstool/computer chair to do anything for 'the cause'

On reflection, the term ceasefire soldier may describe people such as nally etc.  In case you don't know what that is, that's someone who popped up as a republican after the ceasefire and usually refers to people who never did anything pre-ceasefire.  Armchair republican/ceasefire soldier, it amounts to the same thing really in my view.  Those who talk about fighting and that and have never done a thing to support their convictions

So basically, you have a problem with SF supposed links to armed force, a problem with those who supported armed force but not SF, and a problem with those who supported SF but didn't join the IRA? Why you just plain hate anyone to do with Sinn Fein don't you. Get over yourself.

As for your question "Why am I even being asked about the SDLP.  I wasn't discussing them", I'll clarify that you did discuss them when you stated "I am now asking you to qualify how you can say that the SDLP are a Unionist party". I gave you seventeen good reasons. You failed to discuss them so I may post them again for you....

SDLP UNIONISM IN SEVENTEEN EASY TO FOLLOW STEPS:
1. "We are a Post Nationalist Party" (Mark Durkan)
The phrase which sums up th SDLP westminster campaign of 2001. Describing themselves as post nationalist seems to have been the turning point in that key election and they have never properly recovered.

3. http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhqlidcwmhsn/
- In this instance they showed a complete disregard for the mandate given to SF by their voters and showed their level of committment to nationalism by joining a dirty pact with the two unionist parties. This was evidenced at a local level in my own are also at several recent elections. Coming from a Republican area, the SDLP in my local polling station often had a tactic of objecting to as many people as possible inside the station in the evening time; thereby preventing the lines of people still in the queue outside from voting once closing time came.

4. Attitude to All Ireland co-operation and voting rights for Irish Citizens in the north in Irish Presidential Elections
- As I pointed out on this board before, When SF proposed, in 13 councils, that these councils press the Dublin Govn to be more proactive in developing All Ireland strategies and for voting rights for people in the north in Irish Presidential Elections, only two got full SDLP support, the rest either got a split SDLP vote, SDLP members abstaining, SDLP refusing to attend etc. Even their party whips could not encourage their membership to give their full support to it. How can this party be trusted to stand up for Irish Unity when even the idea of increased All Ireland strategies/co-operation is too much for them to handle?

The Unionists of the SDLP also:

5. Felt that equality had been achieved in the 1980's claiming this equality was "now a reality"

6. Takes an oath of allegience to a British monarchy all to have the right to sit in Westminster, despite rarely attending anyway

7. Stated that they have "have no difficulty with a continuing MI5 role" in the north of Ireland

8. Voted in favour of 28 day detention

9. In 2006, argued in favour of diplock courts stating it was "essential that adequate provision for non-jury trials for appropriate offences in Northern Ireland is maintained"

10. Supported Irish citizens in the north being legally compelled to be included in a "British National Identity Register".

11. Regarded Ronnie Flanagan as a man who "wanted to edge policing forward"

12. Opposed Derry Council proceeding with its stated policy of petitioning the Privy Council to restore the name of Derry to the city

13. Assisted the Orange Order in having their joint unionist candidate capture the Fermanagh/South Tyrone seat just to avoid a SF member taking the seat. (Thankfully the people showed them the middle finger on this one.)

14. Sends a member of it's Assembly team on a British Ministry of Defence trip to Afghanistan

15. Voted in in the Assembly for increased pensions for the RUC Part-Time Reservists

16. Voted in Belfast City Council for the placing of dozens of British Army plaques, including two UDR plaques around the walls inside City Hall.

17. For years claimed allegations of collusion between the British state and Loyalist gangs was "republican propeganda"

ill give you 1 reason why the sdlp are not unionists.

http://www.sdlp.ie/index.php/the_issues/a_united_ireland/