The Battle for Fermanagh and South Tyrone

[Zapatista]

Michelle it is thought got some protestant farmer voyes given her role in agriculture.

I'd say they'll be keeping it to themselves all the same given the narrow margin of victory. 

That's strange for a General Election. I suppose this stuff sticks with ye even if you are abstaining. In fact it might go in some way to supporting the idea that we are well capable of Governing ourselves and that taking seats at Westminster doesn't matter. What matters is empowering local people in the assembley.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Michelle it is thought got some protestant farmer voyes given her role in agriculture.

Indeed, and doubtless there'll be a few on the outer fringes of greenery who'd swear "to never (again) vote for a party that they [Protestants/unionists/loyalists] would vote for!" 

[ardmhachaabu]

A lot of being in denial in this thread: whilst Britain maintains a presence in Ireland there will always be a sectarian edge to any election: it's the unavoidable consequence of a (continued) presence that was established and predicated on a sectarian headcount. It's that simple, get over it.

True, there will be a certain edge to the election but do you want to move back towards a more religiously-orientated voting or move away from it.
If SDLP had pulled out of FST then the population there could have just by stating their religion on the ballot paper or as hardstation says "are you a green, an orange or a yellow?"

No question, we need to move away from the tribal headcounts.

My point is that in a statelet that was founded on that basis (primitive sectarian headcount) it's highly unlikely that we'll ever reach a point where the sectarian aspect will be totally eradicated, so when it does surface it's no surprise (that's not to say that I think SF should engage in same).

That said, however, one of the most gratifying aspects of this most recent election was to hear Adams thank those loyalists/unionists in his constituency who had voted for him (small but hugely significant). That is truly progressive and hopeful (and amazing).

Adams was cute enough though, he knows that it is Catholic voters in the Suffolk area.  He didn't mention the religion of the people who voted for him. 

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Adams was cute enough though, he knows that it is Catholic voters in the Suffolk area.  He didn't mention the religion of the people who voted for him.

Neither did I (mention the religion) -- little bit of pavlovian reduction there ardmhachaabu? 

He did indeed mention loyalsists & unionists.

By the way, congrats on number 2 

[ardmhachaabu]

Adams was cute enough though, he knows that it is Catholic voters in the Suffolk area.  He didn't mention the religion of the people who voted for him.

Neither did I (mention the religion) -- little bit of pavlovian reduction there ardmhachaabu? 

He did indeed mention loyalsists & unionists.

By the way, congrats on number 2 

Sorry FoSB, that's what I meant.  He knows fine rightly that it wasn't loyalists/unionists in the Suffolk area.  There have always been a few republicans/nationalists living in there, not to say they haven't had a hard time of it over the years.  I know 2 families in there very well and all of them would be shinner supporters, they live behind grills on their windows though or did at any rate, that may have changed as I haven't been in there in a brave while

Thanks for the congrats, the fun really starts now!

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Cant be the case - if it's possible to identify who voted for who then each and every ballot is scrap and the election a farce.


I'd say it's very possible. It might be illegal to findout and publish it though.

You cannot identify a voter by their ballot.  It's the foundation stone of democracy.

Yes you can.
Though you would need an awful lot of time and access to the warehouse which stores the ballots and stubs and all other sundries.

[Maguire01]

Adams was cute enough though, he knows that it is Catholic voters in the Suffolk area.  He didn't mention the religion of the people who voted for him.

Neither did I (mention the religion) -- little bit of pavlovian reduction there ardmhachaabu? 

He did indeed mention loyalsists & unionists.

Yeah, but if they voted for him then they can't be Unionists/Loyalists, can they? There really is no evidence that Adams got any votes from the 'other side', be that Unionist or Protestant. Nothing "significant" to see here at all.

At the same time though, it's funny that the SDLP's vote in South Down and Derry is ridiculed by SF supporters on here because they attracted Unionists.

[Zapatista]

It is sickening for thousands of nationalists in N.Ireland who hear SF representatives talk about their peace initiative/process.  It can only be compared to a laughable situation if the British or US declared that they were ceasing their hostilties in Iraq or Afghanistan to bring peace to those countries when they were the main protagonists. 

No it isn't, Thats a complete untruth. It would be like the Iraqi people who are fighting back against these protagonists declaring a ceasation of hostilities.

A point missed by most in the leaders debate on BBC was made to Gerry Adams by Mark Carruthers, "why is the first reference to the economy on page 42 of the SF manifesto for the election?"

\We have no controll over the economy! Would you rather they told you on the first page they were going to solve a problem they have no conrol over?

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Haranguerer - If you had an issue you needed resolved or needed representation he would have to play ball and it would look bad for him for not helping out someone from the other side of the house. Someone alluded earlier, on this thread I think, that Michelle Gildernew was accused in parts of F & ST of helping Protestant farmers more than Catholic farmers, I would imagine so that she couldn't be accused of bias.

I know in my old constituency of North Antrim we had the devil himself, Big Ian, for 30 odd years and I know farmers at home, many staunch Republicans, had nothing but good things to say about the oul **** and reckoned he went above and beyond the call of duty at times for them

See this is the thing that gets me.
Alot of people on here saying that SF MPs will do less for their constituants because they abstain from "sitting in" Westminister. Now tell me what is achieved by any MP on behalf of their constituants by sitting in Parliament - sweet feck all, thats what.
Most of the meaningful work done by an MP is done in their local constituancy office or if reallly needs be in their Westminister office (which SF have recourse to).
Michelle will do as well for her constituants as any other person could have!

Well done Michelle.

[Maguire01]

See this is the thing that gets me.
Alot of people on here saying that SF MPs will do less for their constituants because they abstain from "sitting in" Westminister. Now tell me what is achieved by any MP on behalf of their constituants by sitting in Parliament - sweet feck all, thats what.
Most of the meaningful work done by an MP is done in their local constituancy office or if reallly needs be in their Westminister office (which SF have recourse to).
Michelle will do as well for her constituants as any other person could have!

So really there's nothing she'll do for the constituency that she couldn't have done as MLA?
Why bother then?

[Eoghan Mag]

I reckon what now is needed is for Sinn Féin to set up as a party in England proper. Let the elected officials from England hold down Westminister Seats and use their seats as a method to sway more weight behind a united Ireland! 

Anybody who votes for SDLP is the same as a bloody Fianna Fáiler. They are linked together last I heard. That is enough to tell me that the SDLP really is SCUM.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

See this is the thing that gets me.
Alot of people on here saying that SF MPs will do less for their constituants because they abstain from "sitting in" Westminister. Now tell me what is achieved by any MP on behalf of their constituants by sitting in Parliament - sweet feck all, thats what.
Most of the meaningful work done by an MP is done in their local constituancy office or if reallly needs be in their Westminister office (which SF have recourse to).
Michelle will do as well for her constituants as any other person could have!

So really there's nothing she'll do for the constituency that she couldn't have done as MLA?
Why bother then?

Ergo why have any of the 18 MPs then.
As we all know that the "big" decisions are taken by the English and civil servents.

[trileacman]

A lot of being in denial in this thread: whilst Britain maintains a presence in Ireland there will always be a sectarian edge to any election: it's the unavoidable consequence of a (continued) presence that was established and predicated on a sectarian headcount. It's that simple, get over it.

True, there will be a certain edge to the election but do you want to move back towards a more religiously-orientated voting or move away from it.
If SDLP had pulled out of FST then the population there could have just by stating their religion on the ballot paper or as hardstation says "are you a green, an orange or a yellow?"

No question, we need to move away from the tribal headcounts.

My point is that in a statelet that was founded on that basis (primitive sectarian headcount) it's highly unlikely that we'll ever reach a point where the sectarian aspect will be totally eradicated, so when it does surface it's no surprise (that's not to say that I think SF should engage in same).

That said, however, one of the most gratifying aspects of this most recent election was to hear Adams thank those loyalists/unionists in his constituency who had voted for him (small but hugely significant). That is truly progressive and hopeful (and amazing).

Fair enough. I agree with all of that. Think Gildernew could have taken the same leaf as Adams. Maybe she did, I didn't hear every word she said post election.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

A lot of being in denial in this thread: whilst Britain maintains a presence in Ireland there will always be a sectarian edge to any election: it's the unavoidable consequence of a (continued) presence that was established and predicated on a sectarian headcount. It's that simple, get over it.

True, there will be a certain edge to the election but do you want to move back towards a more religiously-orientated voting or move away from it.
If SDLP had pulled out of FST then the population there could have just by stating their religion on the ballot paper or as hardstation says "are you a green, an orange or a yellow?"

No question, we need to move away from the tribal headcounts.

My point is that in a statelet that was founded on that basis (primitive sectarian headcount) it's highly unlikely that we'll ever reach a point where the sectarian aspect will be totally eradicated, so when it does surface it's no surprise (that's not to say that I think SF should engage in same).

That said, however, one of the most gratifying aspects of this most recent election was to hear Adams thank those loyalists/unionists in his constituency who had voted for him (small but hugely significant). That is truly progressive and hopeful (and amazing).

Fair enough. I agree with all of that. Think Gildernew could have taken the same leaf as Adams. Maybe she did, I didn't hear every word she said post election.

She did.
She thanked the sensible stoops who voted for her along with everyone else.

[pintsofguinness]

For someone who has lived through the troubles you have very little understanding of it.

I would venture that I have a greater and more balanced view of the troubles than you given the tenor of your posts.  You seem to believe that religion had nothing to do with the troubles.

Why was it that Catholics were targeted by Loyalist killers throughout the period?  Why did the IRA see fit to kill working class Protestants who even within the twisted IRA mindset could not be considered to be "legitimate" targets?

It is sickening for thousands of nationalists in N.Ireland who hear SF representatives talk about their peace initiative/process.  It can only be compared to a laughable situation if the British or US declared that they were ceasing their hostilties in Iraq or Afghanistan to bring peace to those countries when they were the main protagonists. 

It's the revisionist propaganda being spewed out by the SF machine and the arrogance of the SF representatives towards anyone who disagrees or challenges their viewpoint that is most worrying to me.  It is that totalitarianism that is most frightening, it was evident throughout the election and in the behaviour of those placed in Stormont ministries, where many actions are carried out to deliberately aimed at antagonising the unionist community, where political ideology is always ahead of the needs of the whole comunity.

A point missed by most in the leaders debate on BBC was made to Gerry Adams by Mark Carruthers, "why is the first reference to the economy on page 42 of the SF manifesto for the election?"

Most of that has f**k all to do with this thread. You were not asked to vote for a Catholic  as you are a catholic (is gildernew even a practising Catholic? are you? who the f**k knows), you would be asked to vote for a nationalist/republican as you are one. Religion has f**k all to do with it.