Did Brady covered up child abuse?

[tbrick18]

I was in Armagh today for the St. Patrick's Day Parade....guess who was leading the procession all smiles to everyone!
The Cardinal himself.
I found this very inapproriate given that the majority of those there were children. Children similar to those that were abused as a result of inaction by the Cardinal and those around him and the disgraceful behaviour that went on. Very poor taste IMO.

[Tony Baloney]

You can't simply dismiss people going to mass today as sheep, irrespective of the celebrant. particularly if the opposite had happened it'd have been held up as a huge statement. In my day to day experiences most people are disappointed in brady but aren't prepared to condemn him for a mistake he made under pressure as a young priest. where would we be if we toss everyone who's done that on the scrap heap?

Brady remains a good man for me - as brain dead and irrisponsible as the decision he made back then was.

With the breadth and depth of this scandal is he really the best man to lead the Catholic Church in Ireland? If the church wants to regain the trust of the thousands of "lapsed Catholics" there shouldn't even be a whiff of scandal from the top man in Ireland. The best thing would be to install a man who isn't up to his oxters in this and start rebuilding. As the older "faithful" in Ireland pass on, the younger generation are growing up in time with no fear of the Church which is mired in paedophilia, corruption and scanda. With this background they may not be so keen to get involved. In several generations this could be the rock the Church in Ireland perishes on.

[Tony Baloney]

I think it is possible to over estimate the role of the clergy in the propagation of the faith.  Parents are the first and most important educators.  However, the amount of work carried out in our Catholic schools should never be over-estimated especially our primary schools.  It is those teachers who teach the tenets of our faith, prepare the children for sacraments, first communion, first confession and confirmation.  Without these people maintaining not just their own faith but faith in the formal structures and/or leaders in the Church the Catholic Church as we know it is doomed.  We can concentrate too much on the formal structures, the future of the Church lies with the parents and teachers and there is little recognition of the vital work they carry out.

I agree, but don't you think (as a man, parent and pedagogue) there would be difficulties for some schools and individual teachers in actively promoting the teachings of a Church which is looking increasingly morally bankrupt? 

[ardmhachaabu]

I think it is possible to over estimate the role of the clergy in the propagation of the faith.  Parents are the first and most important educators.  However, the amount of work carried out in our Catholic schools should never be over-estimated especially our primary schools.  It is those teachers who teach the tenets of our faith, prepare the children for sacraments, first communion, first confession and confirmation.  Without these people maintaining not just their own faith but faith in the formal structures and/or leaders in the Church the Catholic Church as we know it is doomed.  We can concentrate too much on the formal structures, the future of the Church lies with the parents and teachers and there is little recognition of the vital work they carry out.

I agree TYP

TB, I agree with you too.  I believe that this is very possibly the crisis in the church that was predicted by many.  It is up to those with faith to continue practicing as they can only lead by example.  I have said before on here that this is the worst scenario the Catholic Church in Ireland could have found themselves in and that people only did at the time what they were told to do, yes there were many mistakes made.

Someone mentioned Fr McCafferty in the previous argument.  As it happens, I have met him on a few occasions, he has always struck me as a very dedicated priest.  He was abused by a priest while he was in seminary and is still a priest.  That says it all about the man and the priest that he is.  He has his criticisms of the church and is working within it to change things even more than they have been changed already in order to allow for full accountability across the board, he is insisting on it island-wide as far as I know

[mylestheslasher]

The people in Armagh had a chance to send a message today. Of course the sheep flock couldn't take their heads out of their arses long enough to make a stand. Standing at the pulpit of an empty cathedral would have made Brady's mind up about what the right and proper decision was.

In fairness to brady, and applying your logic, maybe they did send their message by showing him support?

There are people will keep going to church even if that lunatic Monsignor Dooley was saying mass and was their bishop. God help their wit. I was impressed with Brady today however... at last he showed some humility and said he was 'ashamed.' Hopefully the court case he is involved in won't be an out of court settlement and the full truth will come out. A lot of priests must be sh*tting themselves at the minute as we probably ain't heard the half of it yet.

Why would you be impressed. Yesterday he was totally innocent, not going to resign and all the wankers like Dooley where wheeled out to defend him. But the shit storm kept coming so today a different approach. Express a bit of shame, consider your position and maybe people will send a little pity his way and we'll all say "sure the poor cardinal made a mistake". Bullshit! He is spinning the story to get himself out of a hole. He had 30 years to think about what he did and he made his decision to put his beloved corrupt church in front of little childrens welfare. Now he is leading f**king St Patricks day parades, he should be hanging his head low in a dark room somehere. I have nothing but disrespect for the man.

[orangeman]

Did any of you hear on Talkback with William Crawley today, the chancellor for Down and Connor ( I think ) who was on to challenge Monsignor Dooley's advice of yesterday.


William Crawley eventually ended up making an eejit out of him and tying him up in knots.

On the same show, the editor of the Irish Catholic said that Brady should resign as cardinal and offer himself up to an independent investigation and accept its' recommendations.

[Main Street]

Exactly, not as big a problem in primary school but even there children may only be brought to first confession, first communion and not be brought back to church until confirmation.  It can be so obvious that the parents are unfamiliar with the church surroundings.

Just imagine the uphill struggle we have in school to keep young people engaged with their faith in present circumstances.  The young tend to see things more clearly and in black and white.  We continue to do our best.

The young are not the only ones to see things in black and white

Why be so stuck on the Catholic Church teachings as the guide for young people?
Try out a few other religions.
We sent our kids from the age of 2 until 6 to a kindergarden run by a few Hindu nuns (or whatever a female monk is called).  The kids ate vegetarian food and did meditation twice a day. God was a happy experience for them.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Any of you experts been to Mass recently!
The Big Bad Catholic Church are responsible for all the Ill's of the world.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Have'nt even bothered to read the last lock of pages, all I know are good Priests.

[Main Street]

GDA, should you not be over in the 'Drunk Again' thread

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

GDA, should you not be over in the 'Drunk Again' thread

Sad, usual shite from anyone who disagree's, thought more of you.

[brokencrossbar1]

f**k them GDA, drunken posts are generally the most inciteful!

[Bogball XV]

So telll me this everyone now who is jumping ship and abandoning the Church.
Where you Church go-ers who actually gave a shit before all this or did you rarely darken the door anyways?

If you were Church go-ers and will no longer go how will you now teach your children in the faith, how will you instruct them in matters of religion, how will you introduce them to Jesus?  Will they receive sacraments?

Answers on a post card......

You probably place a great emphasis on the sacraments and going to church and thats fine, I don't and hence my children (IMO) won't suffer for the lack of them, however I will emphasise to them the difference between right and wrong and hopefully be strong enough individuals to make their own minds up on any moral issues they encounter in life.

They will be going to a maintained school as its a good school but I will make it abundantly clear to the principal and teachers that at no time will my children be left unaccompanied with a priest who may not have the welfare of my child as their main objective.

If that's what you think I really recommend you read this:

The scale of sexual abuse and rape in Irish society is shocking, as revealed in a report by the organisation that undertook the survey of clerical abuse for the Irish Catholic Bishops.

Only a tiny fraction of abusers are members of the clergy and only a miniscule proportion of these sexual crimes are reported to the gardai or, indeed, to anyone else. It is an epidemic of enormous proportions, one largely ignored or diminished by the state, politicians and commentators.

The startling facts of abuse are:

* One in five women (20.4 per cent) reported experiencing contact sexual abuse in childhood and a further one in ten reporting non-contact sexual abuse. (That is 30 per cent of all women being sexually abused as children.)

*  More than one in 20 women (5.6 per cent), over 110,000 in all,were raped as children.

*  One in five women reported experiencing contact sexual assault as adults with 6.1 per cent of women experiencing unwanted penetrative sex (ie rape). That is over 76,000 women raped during their adulthood.

*  One in six men (16.2 per cent) reported experiencing sexual abuse in childhood, with a further one in 14 reporting non-contact abuse.

*  2.7 per cent of all men were subjected to penetrative sex (anal or oral sex) in childhood. That is around 12,000 men raped as children.

*  One in ten men (9.7 per cent) experienced contact sexual assault as adults and 0.9 per cent of men were subjected to unwanted penetrative sex as adults.

*  Most of the perpetrators of child sexual abuse were men (89 per cent) acting alone.

*  In the case of those who abused girls, a quarter were family members, half were nonfa m ily but known to the abused girl and a quarter were strangers.

*  In the case of the abuse of boys, only one in seven (14 per cent) was a family member, two-thirds were non-family but known to the abused boy and only one in five were strangers.

*  Only a small fraction of child sex abusers (3.7 per cent) were members of the clergy and a smaller fraction (2.5 per cent) were fathers.

*  In the case of sexual violence against adult women, one-quarter of the perpetrators were partners or ex-partners.

These startling revelations are in a report, Sexual Abuse and Violence in Ireland (SAVI), undertaken by the Health Services Research Centre at the Department of Psychology, Royal College of Surgeons, the body that conducted the recently published report on clerical abuse.

The report was commissioned by the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre. Over 3,000 people, randomly selected, were interviewed anonymously by telephone.

This information was published a year ago, but caused little fuss. Remarkably, only 47 per cent of those who disclosed information to the interviewers for this survey said they had reported the abuse to anybody else. The remainder had never previously disclosed it.

A tiny fraction (1 per cent) of men who had been abused as an adult, and only 7.8 per cent of women had reported their experiences to the gardai. In the case of child sex abuse, only about 10 per cent of victims reported their abuse to the gardai.

The phenomenon of sexual crime is by far the most startling of all criminality in the state andyetalmostno attention is focused on it, apart from clerical sex abuse, which is a minor, almost incidental, part of the problem, although, obviously neither minor nor incidental for the victims of clerical abuse.

For those of us who have ranted for ages about clerical abuse, perhaps a more balanced assessment of the phenomenon is overdue.


http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2003/12/07/story315403517.asp

[Never beat the deeler]

f**k them GDA, drunken posts are generally the most inciteful!

Don't know whether that's a typo, or intentional.... Either way, very punny

[Main Street]

GDA, should you not be over in the 'Drunk Again' thread

Sad, usual shite from anyone who disagree's, thought more of you.

You will, when you sober up.

One rider though,
if you had no alcohol consumed when you joined the thread, then I can understand your ill humour.