Homophobia and racism in Ireland

[EC Unique]

My God there'll be no parent of the year awards handed to some of you on this thread and certainly have a very high opinion of yourselves.


EC, you never answered my question, why exactly would you be dissapointed.

Because I would rather my children would grow up and get involved in a heterosexual traditional Irish Catholic relationship/marrage.
Is that so bad to wish for?

[pintsofguinness]

My God there'll be no parent of the year awards handed to some of you on this thread and certainly have a very high opinion of yourselves.


EC, you never answered my question, why exactly would you be dissapointed.

Because I would rather my children would grow up and get involved in a heterosexual traditional Irish Catholic relationship/marrage.
Is that so bad to wish for?

No it's not a bad wish, a little old fashioned maybe.

[The Iceman]

What amazes me about some of the people on here is their almost total ignorance. Paddy went around the world and was treated 2nd class everywhere he went. There isn't one of us on this board that hasn't had a relative live abroad. We heard all the stories and the songs about the world giving Paddy shit and what do we do, we give it back to others cos they are black or Gay or Travellers or whatever. EC Unique - you are a particularly sad little man, happy in your own stupidity. You think it is ok to dislike someone cos of their skin colour? You'll be refusing your kids to use black doctors or surgeons I suppose. Maybe some of ye should take your heads out of your holes cos ye are an embarrassment to the GAA and to Ireland. I'd swap the half of ye for a any other race or creed in the world that had a bit of respect for their fellow man.

Now cue the "PC Brigade bullshit" defence/attack.

Very good. Fire in a few more insults to make your point even stronger.

You will find there are more Irish people that would share my views than disagree.
Would they all be 'sad little people, happy in their own stupidity'?

Sad indictment of the state of the nation.

I want to pitch in here mate and say that the above highlighted comment is your view on this - not necessarily true for everyone.

Let's not get too PC here folks.

Issues like these are very black and white  (pardon the pun) for most people because they don't have personal experiences with other races or with homosexuals.  Those who have friends from other persuasions or races tend to think differently or be more sympathetic.  I don't believe though that the more sympathetic view is the better one.
There is nothing wrong with gay people as I said as long as they keep their business behind closed doors.  I don't agree with what they are doing but that's between them and their maker and not for me to judge.  I would not be happy if my son said he was gay.  He could marry any colour of woman he wanted.

The main issue here is generalization.
All black people, as Chris Rock says in his standup routines, are not niggers.
Just like all Irish people are not alcoholics with ginger beards.
All Jews are not power hungry, world dominating, big nosed money hoarders.
All British people are (not) assholes

I think you can have a black friend or family member but have a generalized distaste for black people - especially in areas like NY or London where a lot of black people have major chips on their shoulders and its tough as a white person to live/socialize there.
I think you can have Eastern European friends but have a generalized distaste for Eastern Europeans living in Dungannon because of recent murders and outbreaks of violence.

Spend a month living in Sydenham or Crystal Palace in London and walk away without a generalized distrust for black people.

[no mo do yakamo]

And all white people are not racists or homophobes!

[ardmhachaabu]

What amazes me about some of the people on here is their almost total ignorance. Paddy went around the world and was treated 2nd class everywhere he went. There isn't one of us on this board that hasn't had a relative live abroad. We heard all the stories and the songs about the world giving Paddy shit and what do we do, we give it back to others cos they are black or Gay or Travellers or whatever. EC Unique - you are a particularily sad little man, happy in your own stupidity. You think it is ok to dislike someone cos of their skin colour? You'll be refusing your kids to use black doctors or surgeons I suppose. Maybe some of ye should take your heads out of your holes cos ye are an embarrassment to the GAA and to Ireland. I'd swap the half of ye for a any other race or creed in the world that had a bit of respect for their fellow man.

Now cue the "PC Brigade bullshit" defence/attack.

Very well said

[mylestheslasher]

What amazes me about some of the people on here is their almost total ignorance. Paddy went around the world and was treated 2nd class everywhere he went. There isn't one of us on this board that hasn't had a relative live abroad. We heard all the stories and the songs about the world giving Paddy shit and what do we do, we give it back to others cos they are black or Gay or Travellers or whatever. EC Unique - you are a particularly sad little man, happy in your own stupidity. You think it is ok to dislike someone cos of their skin colour? You'll be refusing your kids to use black doctors or surgeons I suppose. Maybe some of ye should take your heads out of your holes cos ye are an embarrassment to the GAA and to Ireland. I'd swap the half of ye for a any other race or creed in the world that had a bit of respect for their fellow man.

Now cue the "PC Brigade bullshit" defence/attack.

Very good. Fire in a few more insults to make your point even stronger.

You will find there are more Irish people that would share my views than disagree.
Would they all be 'sad little people, happy in their own stupidity'?

Sad indictment of the state of the nation.

I want to pitch in here mate and say that the above highlighted comment is your view on this - not necessarily true for everyone.

Let's not get too PC here folks.

Issues like these are very black and white  (pardon the pun) for most people because they don't have personal experiences with other races or with homosexuals.  Those who have friends from other persuasions or races tend to think differently or be more sympathetic.  I don't believe though that the more sympathetic view is the better one.
There is nothing wrong with gay people as I said as long as they keep their business behind closed doors.  I don't agree with what they are doing but that's between them and their maker and not for me to judge.  I would not be happy if my son said he was gay.  He could marry any colour of woman he wanted.

The main issue here is generalization.
All black people, as Chris Rock says in his standup routines, are not niggers.
Just like all Irish people are not alcoholics with ginger beards.
All Jews are not power hungry, world dominating, big nosed money hoarders.
All British people are (not) assholes

I think you can have a black friend or family member but have a generalized distaste for black people - especially in areas like NY or London where a lot of black people have major chips on their shoulders and its tough as a white person to live/socialize there.
I think you can have Eastern European friends but have a generalized distaste for Eastern Europeans living in Dungannon because of recent murders and outbreaks of violence.

Spend a month living in Sydenham or Crystal Palace in London and walk away without a generalized distrust for black people.

Is it too much to ask that a person would have the sense to realise that just because they lived in a crime filled ghetto filled by say blacks that they would realise that the other billions of blacks in the world are not criminals. I mean it is baby infant common sense isn't it? The fact is the more of this intolerance we have in the world the more we hurtle towards disaster. Sadest of all is that I am guessing the majority of people on here are young and could be have kids and are polluting them and so another generation with this prejudicial bullshit.

[ONeill]

There is nothing wrong with gay people as I said as long as they keep their business behind closed doors. 

Does the same go for hetrosexuals?

[whiskeysteve]

Let's not get too PC here folks.

a lot of black people have major chips on their shoulders

[Caid]

Spend a month living in Sydenham or Crystal Palace in London and walk away without a generalized distrust for black people.

I have lived near Sydenham in London (about 10 minutes away on the bus) in an area that is predominantly "black" for about 3.5 years.

I do not harbour a generalized distrust for black people as you suggest I should - despite being involved in certain incidents over the years such as having my phone stolen by two black guys.  I have met genuinely nice black people and black people I am fearful off.  However, I have met genuinely nice white people and white people I am fearful off.  I can honestly NOT say that in my area the percentage of "nice" white people outweighs the percentage of "nice" black people.  The issue is not skin colour but it is a lack of opportunity and education.  It has been shown that areas of economic deprivation can go into a downward spiral resulting in those born in those areas being more likely to have less education and "success" in life.  This goes for "whites" in those areas as well - although generally areas tend to become pockets of one ethnicity.  Studies have also been conducted to show that skin colour has no impact on intelligence and that two students born in the same area with the same opportunities will perform no better or worse based on skin colour.  So you are wrong to generalize and say people who live in Sydenham will have a distrust of black people (unless those people fail to see the bigger picture like you have).

Getting back to the discussion at hand - the lady that used to live in the flat above me was from the Ivory Coast.  She told me stories about how the Irish in Dublin regularly shouted abuse at her and her husband and how they ultimately left Dublin as a result.  Living in Belfast I saw every other week reports of the Chinese being attacked.  At work two of the girls of Indian descent were going to Belfast and the Giants Causeway.  I actually gave them a heads up before they went and was fearful that they may have abuse shouted at them.

Same goes for homosexuals. 

The Irish are small minded and easily brainwashed.  Be that by the English, De Velera, the Church or the current Fianna Fail government.  The Irish cling to the "group" mentality and attack those that don't conform to the socially accepted norm.  We are the biggest emmigrators (per capita) in history and yet we lament at the Polish etc coming to Ireland to seek a better life.  A reputation for being warm friendly people but up until recently it was a social taboo for a father to say "I love you" to his Children.  I'd rather my daughter married a "nice" black girl rather than a bigotted, emotionally devoid, small minded Irish man (albeit potentially giving up the grandchildren would be heartbreak)

[EC Unique]

I do not harbour a generalized distrust for black people .     So you are wrong to generalize and say people who live in Sydenham will have a distrust of black people (unless those people fail to see the bigger picture like you have).
]



The Irish are small minded and easily brainwashed.  Be that by the English, De Velera, the Church or the current Fianna Fail government.  The Irish cling to the "group" mentality and attack those that don't conform to the socially accepted norm. 

The irony.

Try again.

[Olly]

If you read over this thread you can see that people are very different still. I think it will make people reassess their thoughts and while I am so pleased to see the liberal and free thinking attitutes of some, there are others who are still living in the 1960s.

[johnneycool]

Do you not think the 'group' mentality is prevalent in all races, creeds etc and not just the Irish?

It's origins are probably from the start of the human race as a sort of survival instinct, safety in numbers of like minded, similar looking people, all that sort of thing.

With a bit of wit, education and confidence in ones self most people can override this instinct but others can't

[longrunsthefox]

The murder trial of Shaun Fitzpatrick in Dungannon shows were homophobia can lead... ironically
was a lot of anger towards Lithuanian community there afterwards but really is two individuals accused of his terrible killing not  a whole race or people...
There was another fellow was stabbed and murdered in Dungannon a few years ago. Eamonn Hughes. The next morning people were asking, 'Was it foreign nationals?'... anyway it turned out local hoods-druggies are on trial for that. Doesn't do to put the same traits on groups of people because their skin colour.       
What country is 'foreign nationa anyway?' Is used in the papers as derogatory term and never  used about people from America or Australia, just East Europeans and black folk.

[Aerlik]

Some of the most racist people I have met in Oz are Irish backpackers who have done the obligatory Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Darmin, and Perth city route without once ever spending any time in an indigenous community.  Then to hear them spout shite about the aborigines - it makes me sick and on many occasions I have interrupted them during their vitriolic diatribes and asked them to explain the basis for their opinions.   They've never been able to. Never once have I heard one person say they spent time in Waluna, Halls Creek or Fitzroy Crossing, Alice Springs, Hermannsburg, Katherine, Cairns or Weipa.

Folks, if or when you come to this continent, keep your mouths shut about aborigines.  Trusting the words of the other racists in this country is no sound basis for your "opinions".

[The Iceman]

There is nothing wrong with gay people as I said as long as they keep their business behind closed doors. 

Does the same go for hetrosexuals?

If you look back over my posts ONeill you will say that I said this is true for everyone I encounter.  You are OK until you cross the line