Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[Maguire01]

Delighted to be a shinner this week. Things in britain are going nicely with the state visit and marty has proved a leader and statesman putting his country before his own feelings.

So Marty didn't think it was the right thing for himself or SF, but for his country? Truly selfless.

[Man Marker]

Think the SF leadership have once again shown real leadership

Given that Martin was so impressed by the Queen's visit to Ireland - a visit SF boycotted- and that this is what convinced him to accept this week's invitation, doesn't this make them followers rather than leaders? That along with the fact that they're the last of the Irish parties to meet British royalty, and that many of their supporters here sneered at those who went there ahead of them...
Still, better late than never... and great leadership to the extent that the likes of yourself is convinced.

Forgot about the Stoops,no big difference in being invited and doing it as an equal not running over and taking an oath of obedience to get £60k a year.SF decided on this for many reasons and as I said earlier the big change was the Queens visit 3 years ago and her honouring our dead at the Garden of Remembrance.Leadership is more than bowing the head when asked its about knowing when the time is right to make certain decisions but as a stoop you may find that hard to comprehend.

The SDLP take the oath affirmation as a requirement to take the seats their the electorate have elected them to. If it was optional, i'm sure they wouldn't bother. It's protocol - a requirement to sit in parliament and speak and vote on behalf of those who elected you. In the same way that standing for GSTQ and toasting the Queen is the protocol and requirement when dining at Windsor. You can try and make distinctions, but you're dancing on the head of a pin.

We will see at election time, if it is standing on the head of a pin, at election time the voters know we won't take that oath you refer to or will we stand shoulder to shoulder in Westminster.

[Maguire01]

Think the SF leadership have once again shown real leadership

Given that Martin was so impressed by the Queen's visit to Ireland - a visit SF boycotted- and that this is what convinced him to accept this week's invitation, doesn't this make them followers rather than leaders? That along with the fact that they're the last of the Irish parties to meet British royalty, and that many of their supporters here sneered at those who went there ahead of them...
Still, better late than never... and great leadership to the extent that the likes of yourself is convinced.

Forgot about the Stoops,no big difference in being invited and doing it as an equal not running over and taking an oath of obedience to get £60k a year.SF decided on this for many reasons and as I said earlier the big change was the Queens visit 3 years ago and her honouring our dead at the Garden of Remembrance.Leadership is more than bowing the head when asked its about knowing when the time is right to make certain decisions but as a stoop you may find that hard to comprehend.

The SDLP take the oath affirmation as a requirement to take the seats their the electorate have elected them to. If it was optional, i'm sure they wouldn't bother. It's protocol - a requirement to sit in parliament and speak and vote on behalf of those who elected you. In the same way that standing for GSTQ and toasting the Queen is the protocol and requirement when dining at Windsor. You can try and make distinctions, but you're dancing on the head of a pin.

We will see at election time, if it is standing on the head of a pin, at election time the voters know we won't take that oath you refer to or will we stand shoulder to shoulder in Westminster.

I don't think it's a significant factor for most nationalist voters - given that a proportion of SF's rise over the past 10-15 years can be attributed to former SDLP voters, who obviously had little difficulty with the SDLP taking their seats in Westminster when they voted SDLP. Therefore on this particular topic, I don't think the election will tell us anything. It's a point of little significance, but will be used as a fig leaf by those who want to play down certain events of the past week.

[Maguire01]

Amusing when you read back on the thread about the 2011 visit to Ireland - all the references to her being the Head of the Armed Forces, absent from this week's visit.

Back in 2010:
"Sinn Fein opposes the proposed state visit of the Queen of England, commander-in-chief of the British armed forces," said TD Caoimhghin O Caolain.

"Until there is complete withdrawal of the British military and the British administration from Ireland, and until there is justice and truth for victims of collusion, no official welcome should be accorded to any officer of the British armed forces of any rank," he continued.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10421223

Looks like the goalposts have moved.

And a few from our own posters:

I watched on TV the other night the discussions in the Seanad about this. Members were tripping over themselves to talk about how it would be an honour to have the English Queen visit and speak of their aspirations to have her visit their own areas. I was bubbling with anger because I couldnt's stop thinking about the families, including neighbours of my own, who lost people to collusion and were possibly watching that. I know where my support lies.

...given the Lord Mayor's reference to the "honour" of taking part in this week's events, i'm sure Nally was "bubbling with anger".

Not to mention the anger over the visit to the Garden of Remembrance - the very act used to justify the decision to accept the invitation this week...

Irishmen & Woman standing with/kissing the ass of the British Queen, with the British National Anthem playing, in a garden of Remembrance for those who died in the unfinished struggle for Independence. HOW MATURE ARE WE!!!? Can't help but think of the Patriots who must be turning in their graves.

And lawnseed, so "delighted" to be a Shinner this week, had this to say:

Finally this whole thing will go down well cause Irish people are stupid- they take it up the arse. it doesn't matter whether its the queen, the Irish chieftains, the politicians, the clergy, the bankers, the landlords, the Brits, the yanks etc etc we've been doing it since the vikings

[give her dixie]

Amusing when you read back on the thread about the 2011 visit to Ireland - all the references to her being the Head of the Armed Forces, absent from this week's visit.

Back in 2010:
"Sinn Fein opposes the proposed state visit of the Queen of England, commander-in-chief of the British armed forces," said TD Caoimhghin O Caolain.

"Until there is complete withdrawal of the British military and the British administration from Ireland, and until there is justice and truth for victims of collusion, no official welcome should be accorded to any officer of the British armed forces of any rank," he continued.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10421223

Looks like the goalposts have moved.

And a few from our own posters:

I watched on TV the other night the discussions in the Seanad about this. Members were tripping over themselves to talk about how it would be an honour to have the English Queen visit and speak of their aspirations to have her visit their own areas. I was bubbling with anger because I couldnt's stop thinking about the families, including neighbours of my own, who lost people to collusion and were possibly watching that. I know where my support lies.

...given the Lord Mayor's reference to the "honour" of taking part in this week's events, i'm sure Nally was "bubbling with anger".

Not to mention the anger over the visit to the Garden of Remembrance - the very act used to justify the decision to accept the invitation this week...

Irishmen & Woman standing with/kissing the ass of the British Queen, with the British National Anthem playing, in a garden of Remembrance for those who died in the unfinished struggle for Independence. HOW MATURE ARE WE!!!? Can't help but think of the Patriots who must be turning in their graves.

And lawnseed, so "delighted" to be a Shinner this week, had this to say:

Finally this whole thing will go down well cause Irish people are stupid- they take it up the arse. it doesn't matter whether its the queen, the Irish chieftains, the politicians, the clergy, the bankers, the landlords, the Brits, the yanks etc etc we've been doing it since the vikings

Had a read through that thread myself and the Sinn Fein position has fairly changed all right in regards to the Queen and to truth and justice.

When opposing the visit a couple of years ago they said this:

"Until there is complete withdrawal of the British military and the British administration from Ireland, and until there is justice and truth for victims of collusion, no official welcome should be accorded to any officer of the British armed forces of any rank,"

And then on the day they raised their glass to the Queen as the band played "God save the queen", they said this:

Francie Molloy, a senior Sinn Fein politician, said the time had come to draw a line under all past activities by acknowledging an amnesty for terrorists and members of the Armed Forces alike.

[orangeman]

Good man Francie, that's the stuff alright. Time to move on and let bygones be bygones.

[theticklemister]

Told man Francie, that's the stuff alright. Time to move on and let bygones be bygones.

Who does Francie say are the armed forces and terrorists?

[Kidder81]

In fairness to Nally Stand he said the other day he didn't agree with McGuinness going to meet the Queen, glens abu on the other hand.............

[give her dixie]

Good man Francie, that's the stuff alright. Time to move on and let bygones be bygones.

What about the families of those killed who are seeking the truth, and maybe a day in court?

Should they move on and let bygones be bygones?

[orangeman]

Good man Francie, that's the stuff alright. Time to move on and let bygones be bygones.

What about the families of those killed who are seeking the truth, and maybe a day in court?

Should they move on and let bygones be bygones?

Whilst they certainly do, this isn't on the agenda of the government and the recent utterings / mutterings etc show that the governments want the pasr to remain in the past and to move on and build a better future. It won't suit a lot of people to look in detail at went on here and in other places, 40 years ago.

It's all a matter of timing it seems.

[Nally Stand]

Not sure why you're quoting me there Maguire. I stated a few days ago that I don't support McGuinness' move.

[Maguire01]

Not sure why you're quoting me there Maguire. I stated a few days ago that I don't support McGuinness' move.

Maybe, but you don't seem quite so exercised this time.

[lawnseed]

Amusing when you read back on the thread about the 2011 visit to Ireland - all the references to her being the Head of the Armed Forces, absent from this week's visit.

Back in 2010:
"Sinn Fein opposes the proposed state visit of the Queen of England, commander-in-chief of the British armed forces," said TD Caoimhghin O Caolain.

"Until there is complete withdrawal of the British military and the British administration from Ireland, and until there is justice and truth for victims of collusion, no official welcome should be accorded to any officer of the British armed forces of any rank," he continued.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10421223

Looks like the goalposts have moved.

And a few from our own posters:

I watched on TV the other night the discussions in the Seanad about this. Members were tripping over themselves to talk about how it would be an honour to have the English Queen visit and speak of their aspirations to have her visit their own areas. I was bubbling with anger because I couldnt's stop thinking about the families, including neighbours of my own, who lost people to collusion and were possibly watching that. I know where my support lies.

...given the Lord Mayor's reference to the "honour" of taking part in this week's events, i'm sure Nally was "bubbling with anger".

Not to mention the anger over the visit to the Garden of Remembrance - the very act used to justify the decision to accept the invitation this week...

Irishmen & Woman standing with/kissing the ass of the British Queen, with the British National Anthem playing, in a garden of Remembrance for those who died in the unfinished struggle for Independence. HOW MATURE ARE WE!!!? Can't help but think of the Patriots who must be turning in their graves.
Tr

And lawnseed, so "delighted" to be a Shinner this week, had this to say:

Finally this whole thing will go down well cause Irish people are stupid- they take it up the arse. it doesn't matter whether its the queen, the Irish chieftains, the politicians, the clergy, the bankers, the landlords, the Brits, the yanks etc etc we've been doing it since the vikings

nn

And I was correct the queens visit was a huge success!? So much so that given her attitude and involvement sinn fein had a change of heart and decided to meet her. Its worth mentioning that we are a republican party in favour of elected heads of state. Sinn fein have used this occasion to reach out to the brits and try to move things on.
I think the latest opinion polls in the south bear up what I say about the irish voter with ff topping the poll.
Incidently my inlaws recently sought the help of a ff councillor to get a site passed. This week three car load of canvassers arrived to his parents and family more or less demanding their votes. The guy in planning is a ff party member.. Now thats not right

[lawnseed]

Hold on quotes from nally and myself at the time of the queens visit reflect our thoughts at the time. Personally i'd no idea that the queen would get or would be allowed to get so involved in the reconcilliation between our countries. This whole thing is good for ireland and good for britain. I'd no idea she would bow her head to people who fought against her country or that she'd apoligise for past hurts or say how "things should have been done differently" its not normal for the queen to don a political hat and say this stuff. Im surprised and "delighted".
Of course this could be her last hurrah her "contribution to the peace process"  dont know if the boy with the big lugs could pull this off. But who knows I didnt think a little old lady could do the business either.

[Hardy]

Incidently my inlaws recently sought the help of a ff councillor to get a site passed.  ... Now thats not right

Fixed that.