Author Topic: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.  (Read 598019 times)

Angelo

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5880 on: February 11, 2020, 08:46:58 AM »
Maybe they could start showing some maturity and treat the National flag with respect instead of acting like lads  at a match waving the  County flag.

Take it down from the mast Irish traitors
It's the flag we republicans claim
It will never belong to free staters
For you've brought on it nothing but shame

That's the spirit. Sing a Fianna Fail song. It will be good practice for when ye go into government with them.

A Fianna Fail song???

Don't think Dominic Behan had anything to do with Fianna Fail.

Rossfan

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5881 on: February 11, 2020, 08:56:57 AM »
Maybe they could start showing some maturity and treat the National flag with respect instead of acting like lads  at a match waving the  County flag.

Take it down from the mast Irish traitors
It's the flag we republicans claim
It will never belong to free staters
For you've brought on it nothing but shame

That's the spirit. Sing a Fianna Fail song. It will be good practice for when ye go into government with them.
The dignified Healy Raes sang the Rose of Tralee :)

They also said to hell with the planet. Have the Healy raes any plans to colonize the moon?
They have all the necessary JCBs etc  ;D
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Applesisapples

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5882 on: February 11, 2020, 10:42:56 AM »
Feck it lads, most people who have made up their minds to vote SF probably know they have 'tenuous' links with the IRA. They're hardly going to change their minds at the last minute. Especially when the establishment are looking down on them (SF that is).

FF entered the Dáil armed back in the 1920s for those who are unaware...
This is the same IRA now committed to exclusively democratic and peaceful constitutional change.

tonto1888

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5883 on: February 11, 2020, 05:34:03 PM »
Going to be interesting to see how the US military stop overs at Shannon are dealt with. Will SF stand up to Trump and risk economic chaos

How would standing up to Trump over Shannon risk economic chaos

weareros

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5884 on: February 11, 2020, 08:30:25 PM »
Maybe they could start showing some maturity and treat the National flag with respect instead of acting like lads  at a match waving the  County flag.

Take it down from the mast Irish traitors
It's the flag we republicans claim
It will never belong to free staters
For you've brought on it nothing but shame

That's the spirit. Sing a Fianna Fail song. It will be good practice for when ye go into government with them.

A Fianna Fail song???

Don't think Dominic Behan had anything to do with Fianna Fail.

Behan added some lyrics but the song and chorus you cited were written by a Fianna Fáil TD, James Ryan. Better that than Healy Rae singing Livin Next Door to Alice.

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5885 on: February 11, 2020, 11:30:46 PM »
Going to be interesting to see how the US military stop overs at Shannon are dealt with. Will SF stand up to Trump and risk economic chaos

How would standing up to Trump over Shannon risk economic chaos

He already has a policy of bringing everything back in house. Slán abhaile medtronic, Boston Galway, Abbott vascular, phizer etc etc

Angelo

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5886 on: February 11, 2020, 11:47:21 PM »
Going to be interesting to see how the US military stop overs at Shannon are dealt with. Will SF stand up to Trump and risk economic chaos

How would standing up to Trump over Shannon risk economic chaos

He already has a policy of bringing everything back in house. Slán abhaile medtronic, Boston Galway, Abbott vascular, phizer etc etc

Take off the tinfoil hat, you lunatic.

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5887 on: February 12, 2020, 12:09:39 AM »
Going to be interesting to see how the US military stop overs at Shannon are dealt with. Will SF stand up to Trump and risk economic chaos

How would standing up to Trump over Shannon risk economic chaos

He already has a policy of bringing everything back in house. Slán abhaile medtronic, Boston Galway, Abbott vascular, phizer etc etc

Take off the tinfoil hat, you lunatic.

Or a more measured and reasoned retort would be.....

johnnycool

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5888 on: February 12, 2020, 08:58:42 AM »
Going to be interesting to see how the US military stop overs at Shannon are dealt with. Will SF stand up to Trump and risk economic chaos

How would standing up to Trump over Shannon risk economic chaos

He already has a policy of bringing everything back in house. Slán abhaile medtronic, Boston Galway, Abbott vascular, phizer etc etc

he doesn't have that much sway.

They're all here for access to the European Market and favourable corporate tax rates. Not sure how the Donald could wane them off that particular teat because Mary Lou started making a bit of noise about US army flights landing in Shannon.

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5889 on: February 12, 2020, 09:17:44 AM »
Going to be interesting to see how the US military stop overs at Shannon are dealt with. Will SF stand up to Trump and risk economic chaos

How would standing up to Trump over Shannon risk economic chaos

He already has a policy of bringing everything back in house. Slán abhaile medtronic, Boston Galway, Abbott vascular, phizer etc etc

he doesn't have that much sway.

They're all here for access to the European Market and favourable corporate tax rates. Not sure how the Donald could wane them off that particular teat because Mary Lou started making a bit of noise about US army flights landing in Shannon.

Hopefully you are right, he has been banging on about it since 2017. Could another country adopt Ireland's current approach to corp tax? My feeling is that we will not hear SF's pre-election pledge on Shannon mentioned again-its the real world now

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0816/897749-trump-ireland-manufacturing/

seafoid

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5890 on: February 12, 2020, 09:20:55 AM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/up-the-ra-has-become-no-more-ra-and-must-stay-that-way-1.4170612

Up the Ra has become No more Ra and must stay that way
Which way Sinn Féin pivots now will be crucial to its longer-term aspirations

Denis Bradley

 
About a year ago, Sinn Féin sent one of its senior Belfast members to find out what was happening in Derry. There was unrest in the Foyle constituency. The party had performed badly at council elections and there was discontent at local level. Colm Eastwood, the leader of the SDLP, was likely to take back John Hume’s seat. What no one saw was the thrashing that Sinn Féin would take in the Westminster election. Eastwood got more than double the vote of the sitting Sinn Féin member.

The beating that Sinn Féin took in Derry may have been a godsend for the party. That result, more than any other, removed any uncertainty in Sinn Féin’s mind about going back into government with the DUP. That in turn made it easier to sell its proposals on housing, pensions and health in the south; Irish people are generally unhappy when Stormont is not up and running. They see power-sharing as the core of the Belfast Agreement and, more importantly, of the peace process.

How Sinn Féin, in the light of its success, presents and deports itself to the unionist community will be a measurement of its maturity as a party aspiring to govern
The amazing result that Sinn Féin has just enjoyed demands a fresh look at the party’s overarching strategy and its ability to deliver it. As weariness of violence and political deadlock grew, the party proposed (mostly to its own supporters) an alternative to violence and “the long war”. It was to get the party into government both north and south of the Border. From that position of power and strength, the push for a united Ireland would be high on the agenda. The British government and the unionists would no longer be able to ignore or delay the movement towards unity.


Unionist fears
The magnitude of the Sinn Féin vote and the reality that it will now be negotiating the future government of Ireland will send shivers down the spine of unionism. Some will interpret it as a confirmation of what they always thought; that republicans and nationalists are not to be trusted. That there was more sympathy and support for the actions of the IRA than was admitted and that unionists’ culture and political allegiances are under mortal threat. Calmer heads will see the result as a continuation and a broadening of the socially-based issues already played out in the referendums on gay marriage and abortion. They will see that the right to a house and good healthcare played a greater part in the election than political unity.

Which one of these attitudes and voices becomes dominant in the coming weeks and months will be of interest. How Sinn Féin, in the light of its success, presents and deports itself to the unionist community will be a measurement of its maturity as a party aspiring to govern. Martin McGuinness used to advise that a touch of charm went a long way in politics.



Sinn Féin has tasted success before. It supplanted the SDLP and became the dominant voice of nationalism in the North. The electoral success, however, did not result in reputational success. Sinn Féin is still not considered an effective and dynamic party of government. Since the Belfast Agreement, it has held ministries in all the larger government departments except justice. Few would award it a high score in transforming the economy, health or education.

Despite the party’s years at the centre of power, all the worst indicators of poverty and ill health are to be found in working-class republican and nationalist areas. The west of Northern Ireland would still maintain that all the best jobs and infrastructure go to greater Belfast and the east of the province. Derry used to blame unionist governments for being the only city in Ireland without a university. It is now more likely to point the finger at Sinn Féin. But even west Belfast, the heartland of Gerry Adams and many other prominent republican leaders, has not improved greatly after more than a decade of Sinn Féin governance.


There used to be a quip that the Irish people would give the IRA anything but the vote
To their great annoyance, the party has often been described as economically illiterate. Adams and McGuinness were neither trained nor exposed to economic realities. Pearse Doherty eventually came through the ranks and established a reputation in this area, but he had limited exposure in the North. Instead of inviting or buying in expertise, the party surrounded itself with its own people who were equally inexperienced in those disciplines.

Army council
That culture of keeping everything within the family – courteous and respectful to outsiders but only fully trusting its own people – has served the party poorly. It is partly the reason why some believe that Sinn Féin is under the influence and direction of some unofficial army council and that this has prevented the party from engaging the expertise and the insight of people who may semi-agree or even disagree with its core policies.

The broad nationalist population of the North has had little choice but to be patient of the slow but inevitable mutation of the IRA into the constitutional party that is Sinn Féin. There used to be a quip that the Irish people would give the IRA anything but the vote. The reality now is that a great number of Irish people, north and south, will give Sinn Féin the vote but the quid pro quo is that the transformation is total and complete. Up the Ra has become No more Ra and that is the way it must stay.

Ironically, the dissident IRA will feel the impact of this election most. The Sinn Féin strategy of moving into politics and seeking a place in government in the North and the Republic is reaping enough success to expose how morally vacuous and militarily pathetic is the continuing campaign of the dissident IRA.


Denis Bradley is a journalist and former vice-chairman of the police board for the Police Service of Northern Ireland
Lookit

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5891 on: February 12, 2020, 09:48:54 AM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/up-the-ra-has-become-no-more-ra-and-must-stay-that-way-1.4170612

Up the Ra has become No more Ra and must stay that way
Which way Sinn Féin pivots now will be crucial to its longer-term aspirations

Denis Bradley

 
About a year ago, Sinn Féin sent one of its senior Belfast members to find out what was happening in Derry. There was unrest in the Foyle constituency. The party had performed badly at council elections and there was discontent at local level. Colm Eastwood, the leader of the SDLP, was likely to take back John Hume’s seat. What no one saw was the thrashing that Sinn Féin would take in the Westminster election. Eastwood got more than double the vote of the sitting Sinn Féin member.

The beating that Sinn Féin took in Derry may have been a godsend for the party. That result, more than any other, removed any uncertainty in Sinn Féin’s mind about going back into government with the DUP. That in turn made it easier to sell its proposals on housing, pensions and health in the south; Irish people are generally unhappy when Stormont is not up and running. They see power-sharing as the core of the Belfast Agreement and, more importantly, of the peace process.

How Sinn Féin, in the light of its success, presents and deports itself to the unionist community will be a measurement of its maturity as a party aspiring to govern
The amazing result that Sinn Féin has just enjoyed demands a fresh look at the party’s overarching strategy and its ability to deliver it. As weariness of violence and political deadlock grew, the party proposed (mostly to its own supporters) an alternative to violence and “the long war”. It was to get the party into government both north and south of the Border. From that position of power and strength, the push for a united Ireland would be high on the agenda. The British government and the unionists would no longer be able to ignore or delay the movement towards unity.


Unionist fears
The magnitude of the Sinn Féin vote and the reality that it will now be negotiating the future government of Ireland will send shivers down the spine of unionism. Some will interpret it as a confirmation of what they always thought; that republicans and nationalists are not to be trusted. That there was more sympathy and support for the actions of the IRA than was admitted and that unionists’ culture and political allegiances are under mortal threat. Calmer heads will see the result as a continuation and a broadening of the socially-based issues already played out in the referendums on gay marriage and abortion. They will see that the right to a house and good healthcare played a greater part in the election than political unity.

Which one of these attitudes and voices becomes dominant in the coming weeks and months will be of interest. How Sinn Féin, in the light of its success, presents and deports itself to the unionist community will be a measurement of its maturity as a party aspiring to govern. Martin McGuinness used to advise that a touch of charm went a long way in politics.



Sinn Féin has tasted success before. It supplanted the SDLP and became the dominant voice of nationalism in the North. The electoral success, however, did not result in reputational success. Sinn Féin is still not considered an effective and dynamic party of government. Since the Belfast Agreement, it has held ministries in all the larger government departments except justice. Few would award it a high score in transforming the economy, health or education.

Despite the party’s years at the centre of power, all the worst indicators of poverty and ill health are to be found in working-class republican and nationalist areas. The west of Northern Ireland would still maintain that all the best jobs and infrastructure go to greater Belfast and the east of the province. Derry used to blame unionist governments for being the only city in Ireland without a university. It is now more likely to point the finger at Sinn Féin. But even west Belfast, the heartland of Gerry Adams and many other prominent republican leaders, has not improved greatly after more than a decade of Sinn Féin governance.


There used to be a quip that the Irish people would give the IRA anything but the vote
To their great annoyance, the party has often been described as economically illiterate. Adams and McGuinness were neither trained nor exposed to economic realities. Pearse Doherty eventually came through the ranks and established a reputation in this area, but he had limited exposure in the North. Instead of inviting or buying in expertise, the party surrounded itself with its own people who were equally inexperienced in those disciplines.

Army council
That culture of keeping everything within the family – courteous and respectful to outsiders but only fully trusting its own people – has served the party poorly. It is partly the reason why some believe that Sinn Féin is under the influence and direction of some unofficial army council and that this has prevented the party from engaging the expertise and the insight of people who may semi-agree or even disagree with its core policies.

The broad nationalist population of the North has had little choice but to be patient of the slow but inevitable mutation of the IRA into the constitutional party that is Sinn Féin. There used to be a quip that the Irish people would give the IRA anything but the vote. The reality now is that a great number of Irish people, north and south, will give Sinn Féin the vote but the quid pro quo is that the transformation is total and complete. Up the Ra has become No more Ra and that is the way it must stay.

Ironically, the dissident IRA will feel the impact of this election most. The Sinn Féin strategy of moving into politics and seeking a place in government in the North and the Republic is reaping enough success to expose how morally vacuous and militarily pathetic is the continuing campaign of the dissident IRA.


Denis Bradley is a journalist and former vice-chairman of the police board for the Police Service of Northern Ireland

This is my big worry. As a working class republican who voted SF for many many years in Derry City I have seen no improvement in local economics and a massive increase in crime, drugs, suicide and poor health. A new Facebook page opened up there recently "Friends and memories of Galliagh". It actually shocked me to see how many young people have died from our area in last 20 years. Now SF are not responsible for this but they worryingly made little impact on these issues in their urban heartlands, in fact they compounded the issue with their stance on welfare reform.


Rossfan

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5892 on: February 12, 2020, 10:07:29 AM »
If we get a new majority Government then SF will have less than half the seats in it.
The programme for Government will be a sensible achievable document (rules out PBP) which hopefully will have housing, health and regional development as its main thrust.
FF/SF/Greens have 87 seats and would be the most likely Coalition.
The pre election manifestos will join the other fairytales on the shelves.
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Hound

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5893 on: March 05, 2020, 01:25:55 PM »
Some good information on Sinn Fein in the Irish Times today, a lot of it supplied from SF's director of finance Des Mackin.

Nothing new here for our Ulster brethern I'm sure, but plenty for us in the 26. Hopefully it's a sign of bringing more transparency into Irish politics:

Long-term director of finance, Des Mackin said Sinn Féin does not want its elected representatives controlling the party.

“We don’t want a parliamentary party running the organisation,” the senior party officer said. “We want to stay a party of activists. It’s a totally different model.

Three former Sinn Féin elected representatives also told The Irish Times that Sinn Féin was a tightly controlled organisation where unelected officials sought to tell elected representatives what to do. There’s nothing mysterious about it.”

“There are no paper walls hiding people,” he said. “It’s not a case of IRA figures in a smoky room in Belfast. They are on the ardchomhairle.”

The party’s standing committee, the Coiste Seasta, is a key body in the running of the party. There are currently eight people on the committee, only one of whom is an elected representative. Five of the eight are from Belfast.

Sinn Féin’s ultimate ruling body is its ardchomhairle, but it is a large body, sometimes with more than 50 members, and meets approximately 10 times a year. The smaller Coiste Seasta, which meets every fortnight, has the power of the ardchomhairle when the latter is not sitting, and runs the party on a day-to-day basis.

All the party’s national departments report to the ardchomhairle through the Coiste Seasta, according to the Sinn Féin constitution. The committee approves all payments out of party funds that are above €250.
The current membership of the Coiste Seasta is: Sinn Féin’s national chairman Declan Kearney, MLA; party general-secretary Dawn Doyle; director of elections and senior strategist Brian Tumilty; director of finance Des Mackin; Belfast party activist Conor Keenan; head of the “six-county” directorate and party chair in Belfast Sam Baker; head of the “26-county” directorate Ken O’Connell; and director of organisation Martin Lynch. Three of the members of the committee have IRA convictions.

With other major parties in the Republic, the parliamentary party meeting, where a party’s elected representatives meet in private to thrash out party positions, is a key structure. Not so with Sinn Féin, according to the former Sinn Féin TD.

“It basically wasn’t a parliamentary party meeting at all, because a TD with 10,000 votes would have the same say as a political assistant that walked in off the street the day before. The meetings were more akin to focus groups, in which the temperature of the room was taken, but decisions weren’t taken. It was a big failing. There was a sense of disempowerment among the TDs in their ability to effect decisions.”

Similar observations about how the party operates were made by two former Sinn Féin councillors who spoke with The Irish Times. The former Sinn Féin politicians said this process of headquarters seeking to exert control over elected representatives was overseen by the Coiste Seasta.

Paid party organisers “come in, to council meetings, and tell councillors what to do and what to say”, said one.

“You were directed all the time,” said the other. “No matter how trivial the matter [–] would tell you what way to vote. I found that very difficult. I was never a nodding dog for anyone.”

Sinn Féin is the richest political party on the island of Ireland, with approximately 200 staff and, according to its director of finance, Des Mackin, an extensive property network across the island. The exact number of people employed by the party and its elected representatives is not clear, but is probably in excess of 200, he said.

The size of Sinn Féin’s property portfolio has never been revealed, but according to the senior party officer, it far exceeds anything owned by its political rivals.
Sinn Féin owns up to 50 properties in constituencies around the island, over and above the four properties in Dublin and Belfast owned directly by party headquarters, Mackin said.

According to Mackin, the merchandising business operated by Sinn Féin, which sells items that celebrate the IRA and the republican struggle, is producing a profit for the first time in ages. During the general election campaign, the party’s “Come Out Ye Black and Tans” T-shirts (€19.99 each) were “flying”, he said.


armaghniac

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5894 on: March 05, 2020, 02:52:33 PM »
Quote
“We don’t want a parliamentary party running the organisation,” the senior party officer said. “We want to stay a party of activists. It’s a totally different model.

Yes, but if I vote for SF then I expect the person elected to represent my interests and those of other voters and not the interests of SF party activists, be they retired gunmen or not.
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