Author Topic: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.  (Read 455223 times)

seafoid

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5445 on: February 21, 2019, 10:23:59 AM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/newton-emerson-most-dublin-politicians-have-no-understanding-of-northern-ireland-1.3800328

Newton Emerson: Most Dublin politicians have no understanding of Northern Ireland
Southerners can be as bad as the British when it comes to grasping North’s new reality
about 5 hours ago
 
Newton Emerson

9

 
Fianna Fáil Senator Mark Daly commissioned a poll in which 500 people in the Republic were told Northern Ireland requires no subsidy and then asked if they would like to see a united Ireland, to which 73 per cent said yes.
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Sympathy is due to Northern nationalists after the latest report from Fianna Fáil Senator Mark Daly. Last July, while still a member of the joint Oireachtas committee on the Belfast Agreement, Daly produced what he grandly titled “research” claiming Northern Ireland’s £10 billion annual subsidy is an accounting mistake and the actual figure is zero. This claim was so preposterous even Sinn Féin was reluctant to cite it.

Last November, Daly commissioned a poll in which 500 people in the Republic were told Northern Ireland requires no subsidy then asked if they would like to see a united Ireland, to which 73 per cent said yes.
Now the Senator has produced another report, again grandly titled “research”, claiming a hard Border and a “rushed border poll” are both equally certain to provoke violence and the only way to avoid this is to develop a shared Northern Ireland identity and society through, first and foremost, integrated education.
Taken together, Daly’s efforts constitute a near parody of Northern nationalism’s cynicism about Southern commitment to unification: namely, that a united Ireland is a great idea as long as it costs nothing and Northerners sort out all their differences before anyone even thinks of holding a vote on it.

Senator Daly is not alone in making this painfully apparent. Statements on Brexit and a border poll from the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the leadership of Fianna Fáil have all conveyed exactly the same message in only slightly less gauche terms. It is a Free State prayer of St Augustine: Lord make me whole, but not yet.

British politicians have been widely derided since the EU referendum for not understanding Northern Ireland. Most Dublin politicians are no better. They may be aware of the sea-change in nationalist attitudes over the past two years but they have barely grasped the thinking behind it.

Blue Billywig Video PlayerThe peace process presented nationalists with a political quandary. If Northern Ireland ceased to be a “failed entity”, that might make a united Ireland less pressing. Conversely, if nationalists declined to throw themselves wholeheartedly into making Northern Ireland work, its failure could be seen as their fault and call their commitment to peace into question.
•   Newton Emerson: Can the DUP sell its Brexit backstop climbdown?
•   Newton Emerson: Irish and EU must stop ridiculing Border technology
•   Newton Emerson: Can Irish America throw a spanner in the works of Brexit?
 
BREXIT: The Facts
Read them here
In the years after the 2007 St Andrew’s Agreement this trap appeared to have been sprung. The nationalist share of the vote declined steadily as DUP-Sinn Féin government bedded in.
People spoke more openly of a Northern Ireland identity, undeterred by nationalist complaints that it was a unionist contrivance or a British plot. In retrospect, the low point occurred in 2013, when US president Barack Obama gave a speech in Belfast calling for integrated education and comparing the religious division of children to the racially segregated schools of pre-civil rights America.
United Ireland

It was clear from his speech that, like Daly, Obama favoured a united Ireland and
saw the building of a united Northern Ireland as its essential prerequisite. However, nationalists were so aghast the US consulate in Belfast was forced to issue a clarification that the president was not opposed to Catholic schools.
For many Catholics, those schools are the foundation of their distinct cultural Irishness. To deny them that within Northern Ireland would be enforced assimilation.
In my opinion, which I can apparently call research, nationalists are still mistaken
Obama made the same point as late as April 2016, in a speech in London, when he also referred to “forging a new identity that is about being from Northern Ireland.”

The Brexit vote two months later, and the RHI scandal that quickly followed, changed everything. Nationalists now see themselves as freed from the trap – they are under no obligation to make Northern Ireland work if unionists and the British government have broken it.

This has moved us beyond the assumption, still evident in Dublin, that everything can go back to normal if a hard Border is avoided. The extent of nationalist relief at their political absolution should not be underestimated.
Peaceful future
In my opinion, which I can apparently call research, nationalists are still mistaken. A functioning Northern Ireland, including devolution, remains essential for a peaceful future either within the UK or for the transition to a united Ireland.

However, this case can no longer be made with the traditional platitudes emanating from the Republic. Fresh thinking is required, along with new intervention from the British and Irish governments. Nationalists will settle for nothing less.
Among the most challenging matters to consider is whether we are approaching the point where a border poll might assist stability, or at least do more good than harm.
Nationalism is going for broke with a headcount vision of unity, and has convinced itself amid the Brexit hysteria that it can win. It cannot – its vote in both elections since the EU referendum was 42 per cent. Unionism last polled 49 per cent.
Establishing that baseline could be necessary, not to defeat nationalism but to demonstrate to unionists and nationalists how finely balanced both communities are, and why Northern Ireland must be shared to secure anyone’s constitutional aspiration.

Sure it's only the league

marty34

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5446 on: February 21, 2019, 11:38:39 AM »
You have be a serious spoon nowadays to be Asst Chief Constable or Asst Commissioner. They do Masters degrees in Policing, often in America, you’ve been a rising star for years.

These Masters degrees in Policing evidently don't prevent ineptitude to be the norm under your watch.


Does anyone seriously believe that the PSNI "mislaid" these documents relation to the massacre at Sean Grahams bookmakers more than once yet were somehow found when preparing for a civil proceedings.
The one bad apple in the barrell mantra churned out about collusion should be well and truly put to bed, it was/is systematic in the PSNI.

Mary Lou was right to voice her misgivings about the currently batch lining up within the PSNI for the top job.

+1

Rossfan

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5447 on: February 21, 2019, 11:47:40 AM »
I read somewhere earlier that only 8 of the 68 top PSNI officers are from a Catholic/Nationalist background?
2018- 2 Cupeens won, 2 to go.

Saffrongael

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5448 on: February 21, 2019, 01:02:20 PM »
I read somewhere earlier that only 8 of the 68 top PSNI officers are from a Catholic/Nationalist background?

The percentage of catholics in the PSNI is around 30% I think so no great surprise

TabClear

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5449 on: February 21, 2019, 01:14:49 PM »
I read somewhere earlier that only 8 of the 68 top PSNI officers are from a Catholic/Nationalist background?

The percentage of catholics in the PSNI is around 30% I think so no great surprise

Plus serious catholic recruitment only really happened from early/mid 2000s onwards so you would expect that percentage to be even lower as you go up the age profiles in the ranks. The early recruits are probably only now considered experienced enough to be viable options for the really senior roles.

trailer

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5450 on: February 21, 2019, 06:39:48 PM »
Until SF allow recruits live in their own community the PSNI will continue to struggle to recruit Catholics.

RedHand88

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5451 on: February 21, 2019, 08:25:07 PM »
Until SF allow recruits live in their own community the PSNI will continue to struggle to recruit Catholics.

When does SF ever stop them?

marty34

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5452 on: February 21, 2019, 09:30:47 PM »
Until SF allow recruits live in their own community the PSNI will continue to struggle to recruit Catholics.

What does this mean? Clarify please.

Applesisapples

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5453 on: February 22, 2019, 09:03:20 AM »
There are a number of issues surrounding policing that the nationalist community need to address and it isn't good enough for SF reps to snipe from the side. The only way we will get Catholic recruitment in the police up to the requisite level is if as a community we fully embrace policing. That means accepting that there are people within it's ranks who's agenda, politics and outlook are at odds with ours, that means accepting that the RUC means something to the unionists and by extension some police officers. It means like Gerry and Martin with the 'RA change can only come within. It would be unthinkable if a Garda from Buncranna was forced to live in St Johnston and sneak home to visit family, so why is it acceptable for a police officer from Derry to have to move away and keep his occupation secret? Yes the hierarchy within the PSNI and the Federation need to become more inclusive but step by step. SF need to give leadership.

johnnycool

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5454 on: February 22, 2019, 11:35:43 AM »
There are a number of issues surrounding policing that the nationalist community need to address and it isn't good enough for SF reps to snipe from the side. The only way we will get Catholic recruitment in the police up to the requisite level is if as a community we fully embrace policing. That means accepting that there are people within it's ranks who's agenda, politics and outlook are at odds with ours, that means accepting that the RUC means something to the unionists and by extension some police officers. It means like Gerry and Martin with the 'RA change can only come within. It would be unthinkable if a Garda from Buncranna was forced to live in St Johnston and sneak home to visit family, so why is it acceptable for a police officer from Derry to have to move away and keep his occupation secret? Yes the hierarchy within the PSNI and the Federation need to become more inclusive but step by step. SF need to give leadership.

Don't think Martin and Gerry and the 'Ra are the problem, moreso the dissidents prevalent in certain areas still.
Martin McGuinness in particular could not have been clearer on this around the time of the murder of Ronan Kerr IIRC.

Applesisapples

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5455 on: February 22, 2019, 12:10:08 PM »
There are a number of issues surrounding policing that the nationalist community need to address and it isn't good enough for SF reps to snipe from the side. The only way we will get Catholic recruitment in the police up to the requisite level is if as a community we fully embrace policing. That means accepting that there are people within it's ranks who's agenda, politics and outlook are at odds with ours, that means accepting that the RUC means something to the unionists and by extension some police officers. It means like Gerry and Martin with the 'RA change can only come within. It would be unthinkable if a Garda from Buncranna was forced to live in St Johnston and sneak home to visit family, so why is it acceptable for a police officer from Derry to have to move away and keep his occupation secret? Yes the hierarchy within the PSNI and the Federation need to become more inclusive but step by step. SF need to give leadership.

Don't think Martin and Gerry and the 'Ra are the problem, moreso the dissidents prevalent in certain areas still.
Martin McGuinness in particular could not have been clearer on this around the time of the murder of Ronan Kerr IIRC.
We could do more as a community to support catholic officers.

RedHand88

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5456 on: February 22, 2019, 01:33:24 PM »
SF have supported policing and justice for over an decade now. They took the hard decision, even when a large section of the nationalist community was against it. But they dragged us along because it was the right thing to do.

They have condemned attacks on police officers unequivocally and without hesitation since then.

Of course, there are those who will exploit anything for political opportunism and will never be happy with anything SF do.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 01:37:41 PM by RedHand88 »

trailer

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5457 on: February 24, 2019, 10:30:55 AM »
If you want to imagine an Ireland with SF in power cast an eye towards Venezuela.

Hardy

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5458 on: February 24, 2019, 11:24:17 AM »
And they would claim to be the party that made everyone in the country a millionaire.

trailer

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5459 on: February 25, 2019, 11:22:34 AM »
Liam Adams: Convicted sex offender who raped daughter dies

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47280312

Much like the Catholic Church - The IRA protected and covered up abuse to protect good republicans.