Author Topic: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.  (Read 484655 times)

trailer

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5430 on: February 20, 2019, 09:34:42 AM »
Mary Lou showing total disregard for fair employment legislation with her pronouncement on new Chief Constable. Irrespective of your position on this you can not legally discard someone based on your political beliefs. Shows a Fianna Fail level of understanding of the North.

To dismiss her comments as silly or ill judged is incorrect. This was a deliberate and well thought out response coming from those at the very top. They're trying to influence the selection process. A weak or inexperienced Chief Constable will play into SF's largest supporters as there is no doubt a lot of money to be made post Brexit with new border tariffs.

Applesisapples

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5431 on: February 20, 2019, 09:47:28 AM »
Mary Lou showing total disregard for fair employment legislation with her pronouncement on new Chief Constable. Irrespective of your position on this you can not legally discard someone based on your political beliefs. Shows a Fianna Fail level of understanding of the North.

To dismiss her comments as silly or ill judged is incorrect. This was a deliberate and well thought out response coming from those at the very top. They're trying to influence the selection process. A weak or inexperienced Chief Constable will play into SF's largest supporters as there is no doubt a lot of money to be made post Brexit with new border tariffs.
What???

marty34

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5432 on: February 20, 2019, 10:25:21 AM »
Mary Lou showing total disregard for fair employment legislation with her pronouncement on new Chief Constable. Irrespective of your position on this you can not legally discard someone based on your political beliefs. Shows a Fianna Fail level of understanding of the North.

To dismiss her comments as silly or ill judged is incorrect. This was a deliberate and well thought out response coming from those at the very top. They're trying to influence the selection process. A weak or inexperienced Chief Constable will play into SF's largest supporters as there is no doubt a lot of money to be made post Brexit with new border tariffs.

I think the comment must be taken in context - not by the 1 line 'Nolan' soundbite.  She was interviewed after a meeting about the situation when 'new information' has suddenly came to light re: legacy cases.  Each time there seems to some closure, new evidence is suddenly found.  Clearly the police, especially the top management are not willing to put everything on the table.  People are angry about this, but not surprised.

The question for nationalists is, has anything really changed?

haranguerer

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5433 on: February 20, 2019, 10:42:02 AM »
Mary Lou showing total disregard for fair employment legislation with her pronouncement on new Chief Constable. Irrespective of your position on this you can not legally discard someone based on your political beliefs. Shows a Fianna Fail level of understanding of the North.

To dismiss her comments as silly or ill judged is incorrect. This was a deliberate and well thought out response coming from those at the very top. They're trying to influence the selection process. A weak or inexperienced Chief Constable will play into SF's largest supporters as there is no doubt a lot of money to be made post Brexit with new border tariffs.

You're some clown  ;D


Applesisapples

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5434 on: February 20, 2019, 11:12:29 AM »
Mary Lou showing total disregard for fair employment legislation with her pronouncement on new Chief Constable. Irrespective of your position on this you can not legally discard someone based on your political beliefs. Shows a Fianna Fail level of understanding of the North.

To dismiss her comments as silly or ill judged is incorrect. This was a deliberate and well thought out response coming from those at the very top. They're trying to influence the selection process. A weak or inexperienced Chief Constable will play into SF's largest supporters as there is no doubt a lot of money to be made post Brexit with new border tariffs.

I think the comment must be taken in context - not by the 1 line 'Nolan' soundbite.  She was interviewed after a meeting about the situation when 'new information' has suddenly came to light re: legacy cases.  Each time there seems to some closure, new evidence is suddenly found.  Clearly the police, especially the top management are not willing to put everything on the table.  People are angry about this, but not surprised.

The question for nationalists is, has anything really changed?
Leave aside concerns about collusion and potential cover ups. In terms of a selection process you can not issue a sweeping statement such as this. Complicity in cover ups or obstructing the Ombudsman can be teased out during the selection process and can be considered as evidence of suitability or otherwise at that juncture, to make a sweeping statement such as this makes it extremely difficult for SF reps to participate in the selection process and that is regrettable. As for change in the PSNI there is still a way to go but that will take time and the retirement of the RUC elements. It is not helped by SF or any party politicising policing and putting young nationalists off joining. That plays into unionist hands. The Police federation should address the pro RUC and pro Unionist stance it takes also before having a go at Mary Lou, they are also an obstacle, m just look at their crest.

marty34

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5435 on: February 20, 2019, 11:38:20 AM »
Mary Lou showing total disregard for fair employment legislation with her pronouncement on new Chief Constable. Irrespective of your position on this you can not legally discard someone based on your political beliefs. Shows a Fianna Fail level of understanding of the North.

To dismiss her comments as silly or ill judged is incorrect. This was a deliberate and well thought out response coming from those at the very top. They're trying to influence the selection process. A weak or inexperienced Chief Constable will play into SF's largest supporters as there is no doubt a lot of money to be made post Brexit with new border tariffs.

I think the comment must be taken in context - not by the 1 line 'Nolan' soundbite.  She was interviewed after a meeting about the situation when 'new information' has suddenly came to light re: legacy cases.  Each time there seems to some closure, new evidence is suddenly found.  Clearly the police, especially the top management are not willing to put everything on the table.  People are angry about this, but not surprised.

The question for nationalists is, has anything really changed?
Leave aside concerns about collusion and potential cover ups. In terms of a selection process you can not issue a sweeping statement such as this. Complicity in cover ups or obstructing the Ombudsman can be teased out during the selection process and can be considered as evidence of suitability or otherwise at that juncture, to make a sweeping statement such as this makes it extremely difficult for SF reps to participate in the selection process and that is regrettable. As for change in the PSNI there is still a way to go but that will take time and the retirement of the RUC elements. It is not helped by SF or any party politicising policing and putting young nationalists off joining. That plays into unionist hands. The Police federation should address the pro RUC and pro Unionist stance it takes also before having a go at Mary Lou, they are also an obstacle, m just look at their crest.

I think her point is valid especially after the meeting she had re; legacy.  Stumbling block after stumbling block has been put in the way - some over 30 years so I will raise raise raise the question again: has anything changed in regards to policing and the past?  They, in my opinion, are not capable of dealing with these issues. 

Are there any nationalists who disagree with me? 

This old ' things are improving' and 'it'll take a bit more time' etc. don't was with me.  We either stay the same or get a new era to policing.  After last weeks findings about Sean Graham's etc. , it's clear to me which it is.

Mc Donald was basically asking 'has the psni changed? 

Answers on a postcard!!

screenexile

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5436 on: February 20, 2019, 12:03:23 PM »
But Sinn Fein's vote could never make a difference in Parliament  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Applesisapples

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5437 on: February 20, 2019, 03:18:09 PM »
Mary Lou showing total disregard for fair employment legislation with her pronouncement on new Chief Constable. Irrespective of your position on this you can not legally discard someone based on your political beliefs. Shows a Fianna Fail level of understanding of the North.

To dismiss her comments as silly or ill judged is incorrect. This was a deliberate and well thought out response coming from those at the very top. They're trying to influence the selection process. A weak or inexperienced Chief Constable will play into SF's largest supporters as there is no doubt a lot of money to be made post Brexit with new border tariffs.

I think the comment must be taken in context - not by the 1 line 'Nolan' soundbite.  She was interviewed after a meeting about the situation when 'new information' has suddenly came to light re: legacy cases.  Each time there seems to some closure, new evidence is suddenly found.  Clearly the police, especially the top management are not willing to put everything on the table.  People are angry about this, but not surprised.

The question for nationalists is, has anything really changed?
Leave aside concerns about collusion and potential cover ups. In terms of a selection process you can not issue a sweeping statement such as this. Complicity in cover ups or obstructing the Ombudsman can be teased out during the selection process and can be considered as evidence of suitability or otherwise at that juncture, to make a sweeping statement such as this makes it extremely difficult for SF reps to participate in the selection process and that is regrettable. As for change in the PSNI there is still a way to go but that will take time and the retirement of the RUC elements. It is not helped by SF or any party politicising policing and putting young nationalists off joining. That plays into unionist hands. The Police federation should address the pro RUC and pro Unionist stance it takes also before having a go at Mary Lou, they are also an obstacle, m just look at their crest.

I think her point is valid especially after the meeting she had re; legacy.  Stumbling block after stumbling block has been put in the way - some over 30 years so I will raise raise raise the question again: has anything changed in regards to policing and the past?  They, in my opinion, are not capable of dealing with these issues. 

Are there any nationalists who disagree with me? 

This old ' things are improving' and 'it'll take a bit more time' etc. don't was with me.  We either stay the same or get a new era to policing.  After last weeks findings about Sean Graham's etc. , it's clear to me which it is.

Mc Donald was basically asking 'has the psni changed? 

Answers on a postcard!!
Yes a lot has changed in policing, if you care to look carefully. I repeat some of the concerns Mary Lou raises are legitimate, but this comment politicises the recruitment process and has the potential to discriminate against officers who may well be capable and have had nothing to do with her issues.

Wildweasel74

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5438 on: February 20, 2019, 09:45:19 PM »
Take that clown bck down south. She got no understanding of the norths politics. She actually guaranteed the nxt chief pc will come from the existing psni.. Idiot! Doesnt seem to have even the basic understanding of fair employment law.

Aaron Boone

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5439 on: February 20, 2019, 11:54:35 PM »
You have be a serious spoon nowadays to be Asst Chief Constable or Asst Commissioner. They do Masters degrees in Policing, often in America, you’ve been a rising star for years.

RedHand88

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5440 on: February 21, 2019, 07:53:51 AM »
Take that clown bck down south. She got no understanding of the norths politics. She actually guaranteed the nxt chief pc will come from the existing psni.. Idiot! Doesnt seem to have even the basic understanding of fair employment law.

Well that's a very partitionist statement. Sdlp voter?

johnnycool

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5441 on: February 21, 2019, 09:28:47 AM »
You have be a serious spoon nowadays to be Asst Chief Constable or Asst Commissioner. They do Masters degrees in Policing, often in America, you’ve been a rising star for years.

These Masters degrees in Policing evidently don't prevent ineptitude to be the norm under your watch.


Does anyone seriously believe that the PSNI "mislaid" these documents relation to the massacre at Sean Grahams bookmakers more than once yet were somehow found when preparing for a civil proceedings.
The one bad apple in the barrell mantra churned out about collusion should be well and truly put to bed, it was/is systematic in the PSNI.

Mary Lou was right to voice her misgivings about the currently batch lining up within the PSNI for the top job.

seafoid

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5442 on: February 21, 2019, 10:23:59 AM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/newton-emerson-most-dublin-politicians-have-no-understanding-of-northern-ireland-1.3800328

Newton Emerson: Most Dublin politicians have no understanding of Northern Ireland
Southerners can be as bad as the British when it comes to grasping North’s new reality
about 5 hours ago
 
Newton Emerson

9

 
Fianna Fáil Senator Mark Daly commissioned a poll in which 500 people in the Republic were told Northern Ireland requires no subsidy and then asked if they would like to see a united Ireland, to which 73 per cent said yes.
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Sympathy is due to Northern nationalists after the latest report from Fianna Fáil Senator Mark Daly. Last July, while still a member of the joint Oireachtas committee on the Belfast Agreement, Daly produced what he grandly titled “research” claiming Northern Ireland’s £10 billion annual subsidy is an accounting mistake and the actual figure is zero. This claim was so preposterous even Sinn Féin was reluctant to cite it.

Last November, Daly commissioned a poll in which 500 people in the Republic were told Northern Ireland requires no subsidy then asked if they would like to see a united Ireland, to which 73 per cent said yes.
Now the Senator has produced another report, again grandly titled “research”, claiming a hard Border and a “rushed border poll” are both equally certain to provoke violence and the only way to avoid this is to develop a shared Northern Ireland identity and society through, first and foremost, integrated education.
Taken together, Daly’s efforts constitute a near parody of Northern nationalism’s cynicism about Southern commitment to unification: namely, that a united Ireland is a great idea as long as it costs nothing and Northerners sort out all their differences before anyone even thinks of holding a vote on it.

Senator Daly is not alone in making this painfully apparent. Statements on Brexit and a border poll from the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the leadership of Fianna Fáil have all conveyed exactly the same message in only slightly less gauche terms. It is a Free State prayer of St Augustine: Lord make me whole, but not yet.

British politicians have been widely derided since the EU referendum for not understanding Northern Ireland. Most Dublin politicians are no better. They may be aware of the sea-change in nationalist attitudes over the past two years but they have barely grasped the thinking behind it.

Blue Billywig Video PlayerThe peace process presented nationalists with a political quandary. If Northern Ireland ceased to be a “failed entity”, that might make a united Ireland less pressing. Conversely, if nationalists declined to throw themselves wholeheartedly into making Northern Ireland work, its failure could be seen as their fault and call their commitment to peace into question.
•   Newton Emerson: Can the DUP sell its Brexit backstop climbdown?
•   Newton Emerson: Irish and EU must stop ridiculing Border technology
•   Newton Emerson: Can Irish America throw a spanner in the works of Brexit?
 
BREXIT: The Facts
Read them here
In the years after the 2007 St Andrew’s Agreement this trap appeared to have been sprung. The nationalist share of the vote declined steadily as DUP-Sinn Féin government bedded in.
People spoke more openly of a Northern Ireland identity, undeterred by nationalist complaints that it was a unionist contrivance or a British plot. In retrospect, the low point occurred in 2013, when US president Barack Obama gave a speech in Belfast calling for integrated education and comparing the religious division of children to the racially segregated schools of pre-civil rights America.
United Ireland

It was clear from his speech that, like Daly, Obama favoured a united Ireland and
saw the building of a united Northern Ireland as its essential prerequisite. However, nationalists were so aghast the US consulate in Belfast was forced to issue a clarification that the president was not opposed to Catholic schools.
For many Catholics, those schools are the foundation of their distinct cultural Irishness. To deny them that within Northern Ireland would be enforced assimilation.
In my opinion, which I can apparently call research, nationalists are still mistaken
Obama made the same point as late as April 2016, in a speech in London, when he also referred to “forging a new identity that is about being from Northern Ireland.”

The Brexit vote two months later, and the RHI scandal that quickly followed, changed everything. Nationalists now see themselves as freed from the trap – they are under no obligation to make Northern Ireland work if unionists and the British government have broken it.

This has moved us beyond the assumption, still evident in Dublin, that everything can go back to normal if a hard Border is avoided. The extent of nationalist relief at their political absolution should not be underestimated.
Peaceful future
In my opinion, which I can apparently call research, nationalists are still mistaken. A functioning Northern Ireland, including devolution, remains essential for a peaceful future either within the UK or for the transition to a united Ireland.

However, this case can no longer be made with the traditional platitudes emanating from the Republic. Fresh thinking is required, along with new intervention from the British and Irish governments. Nationalists will settle for nothing less.
Among the most challenging matters to consider is whether we are approaching the point where a border poll might assist stability, or at least do more good than harm.
Nationalism is going for broke with a headcount vision of unity, and has convinced itself amid the Brexit hysteria that it can win. It cannot – its vote in both elections since the EU referendum was 42 per cent. Unionism last polled 49 per cent.
Establishing that baseline could be necessary, not to defeat nationalism but to demonstrate to unionists and nationalists how finely balanced both communities are, and why Northern Ireland must be shared to secure anyone’s constitutional aspiration.

Lookit

marty34

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5443 on: February 21, 2019, 11:38:39 AM »
You have be a serious spoon nowadays to be Asst Chief Constable or Asst Commissioner. They do Masters degrees in Policing, often in America, you’ve been a rising star for years.

These Masters degrees in Policing evidently don't prevent ineptitude to be the norm under your watch.


Does anyone seriously believe that the PSNI "mislaid" these documents relation to the massacre at Sean Grahams bookmakers more than once yet were somehow found when preparing for a civil proceedings.
The one bad apple in the barrell mantra churned out about collusion should be well and truly put to bed, it was/is systematic in the PSNI.

Mary Lou was right to voice her misgivings about the currently batch lining up within the PSNI for the top job.

+1

Rossfan

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #5444 on: February 21, 2019, 11:47:40 AM »
I read somewhere earlier that only 8 of the 68 top PSNI officers are from a Catholic/Nationalist background?
1 BIG CUP and 1 Cupeen so far....