Author Topic: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.  (Read 410385 times)

Nally Stand

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2010, 08:00:56 PM »
Read my last message re an apology. Don't forget hardy. A republic is a type of state. Irish Republicanism is a complex political ideology and despite all your denials, if you go outside now and ask 100 people what it's main basis is, i'd safely say over 90 and probably all of them will tell you it is about getting a united Ireland.
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Hardy

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #46 on: January 19, 2010, 08:18:06 PM »
50 million people probably think Westlife is the best band in the world. Are they right?

(Are you saying that if Lizzie apologises for the behaviour of the British army everything will be fine and it's OK with you if she then visits Dublin? Surely not?)
I studied deeply in the philosophies and religions, but cheerfulness kept breaking through - L.Cohen

Nally Stand

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #47 on: January 19, 2010, 08:26:32 PM »
I'm not here to suggest circumstances in which she should visit. I'm here to say that the current circumstances don't accomodate it and yet the "republicans" in the dail are crying out for this visit. And opinions on a band do not compare to central definitions of political ideology. I think if you asked 100 people both questions there would be a wide range of answers for favourite band and a consistent answer about what Irish Republicanism is about which is why your argument lacks any real credibility.
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Hardy

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2010, 08:39:43 PM »
Sorry, I'm confused. You introduced the idea of an apology. You emphasised it in your next post. The apology argument has now disappeared, but the current circumstances are still not right, you say.

I assume it's your other argument that's in play now - that while she claims to be queen of the six counties, etc. it would be un-republican to invite her here? But, as I pointed out, the people of this republic have by ballot accepted her claim to be head of state of those in the North who wish to accept her as such. The people are sovereign in a republic. So how would it be un-republican for the government of this republic to use her claim as a basis for refusing to invite her? They certainly wouldn't be implementing any mandate from the people to that effect.

Not that I give a toss whether she ever visits this country or not. You're the one who introduced the possibility of a visit into a debate about republicanism. I don't see its relevance, that's all.
I studied deeply in the philosophies and religions, but cheerfulness kept breaking through - L.Cohen

Nally Stand

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #49 on: January 19, 2010, 08:49:04 PM »
I'm being entirely consistent in my argument. I also notice that you go fact have given up on my argument on what Irish republicanism is. As for her visit, i stand totally by my they that under the current circumstances it is not in the spirit of Irish Republicanism to invite her while she has not apologised and while partitionism exists. If FF are republicans, how to they see such a visit as enhancing the argument for Irish unity?
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Hardy

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2010, 09:01:28 PM »
Why would a visit have to enhance the argument for Irish unity? Heads of state visit here all the time. Advancing the argument for Irish unity has never been a criterion for whether someone should visit.

What's this obsession with a visit anyway?

(Take that as rhetorical. While this has been great fun, I'm going to enjoy a pint even more).
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 11:37:14 AM by Hardy »
I studied deeply in the philosophies and religions, but cheerfulness kept breaking through - L.Cohen

magickingdom

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #51 on: January 19, 2010, 09:07:15 PM »
The people of Ireland have accepted her claim by overwhelming democratic majority, which is how it works in republics, so how would it be a token of republicanism to deny it?

now that is what i call bullshit of the highest order, your a smart guy yet thats as dumb a post on a number of levels that i have read on this board. the people of ireland were asked seperate questions by 2, is that how it works for an overwhelming democratic majority? in republics?

Nally Stand

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #52 on: January 19, 2010, 09:18:44 PM »
It came from my point that FF are hardly putting much energy into Irish unity if they are encouraging Irish people to greet liz and fly little union jacks in Dublin. This discussion came about by comparing the Irish Republican credentials of SF and FF.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 09:24:06 PM by Nally Stand »
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Nally Stand

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #53 on: January 19, 2010, 09:54:08 PM »
Incidentally, next month SF will host a full weekend conference in london at trade union congress on the theme of Irish unity. It will b addressed by british MPs, Trade union leaders, unionist MLAs, journalists, & a former london mayor for example. It aims to discuss what form a 32 county republic would take & to persuade unionists and people of influence in Britain of the advantages that a united Ireland would bring. I wonder what the other "republican" parties have planned for Feb to advance Irish unity?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 09:59:47 PM by Nally Stand »
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

ardmhachaabu

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #54 on: January 19, 2010, 09:56:14 PM »
The only thing SF are engaging in is one big bluff.

There will be no united Ireland in any of our lifetimes
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something

mylestheslasher

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #55 on: January 19, 2010, 10:13:12 PM »
Sinn Feinare the only republican party in leinster house

FF( The Builders/Bankers Party) want a re United Independant Ireland,(without a monarchy) in accordance with the GFA when a majority of 6 Co voters want to end the current link with GB.
FG (once the big farmers and shopkeepers party) want  a re United Independant Ireland,(without a monarchy) in accordance with the GFA when a majority of 6 Co voters want to end the current link with GB.
Labour ( former Union officials party) want a re United Independant Ireland,(without a monarchy) in accordance with the GFA when a majority of 6 Co voters want to end the current link with GB.
Sinn Féin want .......... the same  ::)
So how are they the only republican party in the Dáil ?
I didnt  mention the Greens as they wont exist after 2012  ;D

Listen Rossfan, I am openly critical of SF on a number of points even though I was once a member but to suggest that FF, FG and the rest are republican parties or as republican as SF is a joke (For Hardy, I am using the term republican as the vast majority of people of this island use it, incorrectly, which states republican = united Ireland). All we get from FF, FG is some aspiration to have a united Ireland buried in the back pages of their constitution. What efforts have they ever made to reunite Ireland, to convince unionists of the merits of united ireland, they have no plan whatsoever, no green paper no nothing. At least SF have it at the top of their "to do" list. SF's problem is they have nothing of merit to say on anything else except bland rhetoric with no basis and until they come up with something of substance they will never dig any votes out of the critical middle classes with a left leaning.

camloughlad

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2010, 12:08:49 AM »
a lot of shinners walk around thinking the run the place, I'd love to see them taken down a peg or two
how do ya work that out
I'm not sure what you mean by that or what you're asking. 

Nally, I'm not talking about the areas of government, I'm talking about Sinn Fein activists at local level (not them all I have to say) going around thinking they own the place.  I wouldnt mind seeing them taking down a peg or two.
i love the way you say you would like to see them take down a peg or two your not man enough to do it yourself.wat areas would you be talking about

pintsofguinness

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #57 on: January 20, 2010, 12:12:53 AM »
a lot of shinners walk around thinking the run the place, I'd love to see them taken down a peg or two
how do ya work that out
I'm not sure what you mean by that or what you're asking. 

Nally, I'm not talking about the areas of government, I'm talking about Sinn Fein activists at local level (not them all I have to say) going around thinking they own the place.  I wouldnt mind seeing them taking down a peg or two.
i love the way you say you would like to see them take down a peg or two your not man enough to do it yourself.wat areas would you be talking about
we could start in areas not a million miles from you.
Not man enough to do it myself? what do you want me to do?
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

JohnDenver

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #58 on: January 20, 2010, 10:14:08 AM »
The only thing SF are engaging in is one big bluff.

There will be no united Ireland in any of our lifetimes

You are now an honourary member of The SDLP. Congratulations  :P

Hardy

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Re: Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.
« Reply #59 on: January 20, 2010, 10:48:45 AM »
The people of Ireland have accepted her claim by overwhelming democratic majority, which is how it works in republics, so how would it be a token of republicanism to deny it?

now that is what i call bullshit of the highest order, your a smart guy yet thats as dumb a post on a number of levels that i have read on this board. the people of ireland were asked seperate questions by 2, is that how it works for an overwhelming democratic majority? in republics?

So please explain the situation to dumb old me, as I'm clearly incapable of grasping it.

The people of Ireland, North and South, voted overwhelmingly to accept the GFA, which enshrines partition and the constitutional position in the north, including the position of the British monarch, for as long as the people of the six counties want it to be so. How is this to be interpreted as a rejection of the claim of the British monarch to sovereignty over those who define themselves as British?

Simple question. If you have a formula that turns the GFA vote into a rejection of British rule in the North, I'd be interested to see how it works.

You mightn't like the decision we made and some SF people can even convince themselves that they didn't really mean it and haven't accepted partition and if they keep their fingers crossed behind their backs none of it is really happening. That's grand. Whatever works for you.

I'm only pointing out facts. If you dispute them, I look forward to discussing that with you.
I studied deeply in the philosophies and religions, but cheerfulness kept breaking through - L.Cohen