Adams' brother sought over alleged abuse

[Main Street]

Let's see  Myles, you started off yesterday giving a link to some slugger blog as if there was something that contradicted
Adams. As expected the slugger blog provided zilch info to contradict Adams, namely his claim that he went to Dundalk and got his brother to stand down.

Then you slither away to the UTV insight interview,  claiming that
'Gerry claimed in the Insight interview to have been estranged from his brother for 15 years'.

As expected,no such statement was made by Adams in the UTV interview

then you went on to twist -  'A 'permanent bereavement', was another phrase he used, thus suggesting that Liam was as good as dead to him'.

To any rational interpretation, Adams is saying the abuse hit him like a permanent bereavement,  i.e. something died in the family dynamics forever.

Now after everything you have claimed has been proven a lie  you provide another isolated quote attributed to Gerry Adams from the UTV interview
"I haven't had any contact with him."

Adams has never denied meeting his brother on a number of occasions, even in that UTV interview he admitted to having contact with his brother. 

Myles, your argument fits just fine to the scoundrel you are, full of lies and perverse interpretations, without any substance.

[Myles Na G.]

Let's see  Myles, you started off yesterday giving a link to some slugger blog as if there was something that contradicted
Adams. As expected the slugger blog provided zilch info to contradict Adams, namely his claim that he went to Dundalk and got his brother to stand down.

Then you slither away to the UTV insight interview,  claiming that
'Gerry claimed in the Insight interview to have been estranged from his brother for 15 years'.

As expected,no such statement was made by Adams in the UTV interview

then you went on to twist -  'A 'permanent bereavement', was another phrase he used, thus suggesting that Liam was as good as dead to him'.

To any rational interpretation, Adams is saying the abuse hit him like a permanent bereavement,  i.e. something died in the family dynamics forever.

Now after everything you have claimed has been proven a lie  you provide another isolated quote attributed to Gerry Adams from the UTV interview
"I haven't had any contact with him."

Adams has never denied meeting his brother on a number of occasions, even in that UTV interview he admitted to having contact with his brother. 

Myles, your argument fits just fine to the scoundrel you are, full of lies and perverse interpretations, without any substance.

So what do you think 'I haven't had any contact with him' means. That he hasn't spoken to him since the interview started? Since the day before yesterday? Since last week? If he's not estranged from him, why doesn't he lift the phone and make contact with him? The inference is clearly that Adams has severed the link with his brother over the accusations made by Aine - hence his feeling of being bereaved. He feels like he has lost his brother. One more time - get your head out of your hole.

[Main Street]

So what do you think 'I haven't had any contact with him' means. That he hasn't spoken to him since the interview started? Since the day before yesterday? Since last week?

I don't know what you chose to hear Myles, neither do I know the timeline of contact that Adams is talking about.
I heard on the UTV interview Ádams talking about the contact he had with the brother, he has openly admitted the contact he has had.

If he's not estranged from him, why doesn't he lift the phone and make contact with him?

Who knows why, maybe he is estranged from his brother but still has had contact, maybe he is finished talking to his brother, maybe his brother is an out and out asshole.

The inference is clearly that Adams has severed the link with his brother over the accusations made by Aine - hence his feeling of being bereaved. He feels like he has lost his brother. One more time - get your head out of your hole.

Myles you have lied since you you started posting yesterday
As a chronic liar, you are well capable of swallowing your own delusions and actually believing them 100%. It is the way of liars.

[Myles Na G.]

'I don't know what you chose to hear Myles, neither do I know the timeline of contact that Adams is talking about.
I heard on the UTV interview Ádams talking about the contact he had with the brother, he has openly admitted the contact he has had.

Who knows why, maybe he is estranged from his brother but still has had contact, maybe he is finished talking to his brother, maybe his brother is an out and out asshole.


Myles you have lied since you you started posting yesterday
As a chronic liar, you are well capable of swallowing your own delusions and actually believing them 100%. It is the way of liars.'

You don't know the timeline and what's more, you don't really care. If Gerry says something, you'll believe it, no matter if all the evidence points to the contrary. The contact Gerry admitted to having with Liam in that interview was all in the context of helping Aine - he took her to Donegal to meet him, he spoke with Liam to set up a meeting with Aine, etc etc. He certainly doesn't mention that he was at Liam's wedding, nor that he canvassed with him in Dundalk. Only things that cast Gerry in a good light get a mention. Now you're saying you're not sure if they were estranged, maybe they were, maybe they weren't. Again, you're not too bothered. If Gerry says he had no contact, that'll do for you, no questions asked. I was wrong when I said your head was up your arse - apologies for that. It's Gerry's arse I meant.

[Trevor Hill]

The following article appeared in last weeks Sunday Times, while I wouldnt be a fan of Liam Clarke, I think he is on the money with this one.

Gerry Adams had plenty of time to prepare for the publication of allegations of child sex abuse against his brother, Liam. Everything he did must be seen in that light. He is a famously cool character and, however difficult this issue is, he had time to think out every word and action in response to the claims.

UTV Insight, which went public with the accusations on December 18, had been in contact with Adams for more than two months in an effort to get an interview with him. They had told him they knew his brother was on the run and that they had conducted an interview with Liam's daughter Áine in which she made detailed allegations of abuse against her father. Nothing was bounced on Adams, there were no surprises.

Adams said he was aware that Áine had claimed the abuse allegedly lasted from 1978, when Áine was four, until 1983. He also knew that towards the end of this period Liam had been separated from Áine's mother, Sally, but had allegedly continued to abuse his daughter during periods of parental access.

Liam has yet to stand trial and is entitled to a presumption of innocence. Aside from this Gerry Adams has said he was aware of Áine's claims since 1987 and his own actions must be seen in that light. "Áine was about 14 at the time. She was only a kid, but she was always a very good wee girl. I just couldn't imagine a child like her making up such a serious allegation" he said.

Adams gave an interview to UTV's Chris Moore last Friday evening but never mentioned that his father, also Gerry, had been a child abuser.

He spoke about his father later in an RTE interview with Tommie Gorman two days later. He must have known, and been advised by his media handlers, that it could move the story on from Liam. It would provide a follow up for the media, give things a new twist and perhaps attract sympathy for himself.

In his Leargas blog, Adams thanks all who have expressed solidarity with him. As he walked home from Mass last Sunday, even before the RTE broadcast, four people approached him to share the fact that child abuse had occurred in their families too.

It was undoubtedly a miserable period for the Sinn Féin President. The introduction of his father's abusive past, while reviving painful memories, did help to move the spotlight away from the immediate political problems which his brother's non appearance in court posed. But considering the time he had to prepare it, there are plenty of unexplained gaps in Adams's story.

Liam was employed as a youth development worker in Beechmount Community Project, also known as "the Blackie" between November 2004 and May 2006. Gerry Adams says that when he found out Liam was working there he persuaded him to leave the job.

Why did this take so long? The project is in Gerry Adams's West Belfast constituency and is within walking distance of both his home and the Sinn Féin press centre on Falls Road. Adams was a frequent visitor to the project. In June 2005 he unveiled a mural which had been painted by youngsters in the youth development project to promote suicide awareness. Republican News carried a picture of the event.

Earlier in June, Liam, describing himself as a Beechmount community worker, was quoted in the local papers promoting a campaign against glue sniffing. A couple of weeks later Liam was again in the papers, this time promoting a cross community youth project to help Romanian orphans. He travelled to Romania and in November 2005 was interviewed again about a group he brought back from there.

Is it really credible that Adams, the local MP, noticed none of these references to his brother? How much credence would a TD in Dublin or an English MP be given if he pleaded ignorance in a similar situation? It would not be considered a private or non political matter if that TD or MP's brother, who was alleged to have abused a child, was leading a youth project near his party offices and visiting East European orphanages.

During 2002-2007 Adams was holding meetings with Áine and her mother to try to resolve the abuse issue. He says he was trying to get Liam to meet Áine, as she had asked, but Áine was not satisfied with his efforts.

"Our Liam can't cope with life and I am trying to get him to meet you but you know he is a coward and he might not want to do that" Áine said, recalling her conversations with Adams.

Liam was being presented as a man under stress when he was in fact running a youth project and getting on with his life. Áine's boyfriend Tony Dahlstrom told UTV that the meetings offered Áine "false hope", adding "they were telling her that they hadn't seen Liam yet."

Many of the meetings took place in the Cultúrlann, an Irish language and cultural centre, just a little further up the Falls Road from Beechmount, where Liam was working.

This is the same approach of endless but unproductive meetings which republicans often use when people complain against those close to them. The families of many of those killed and secretly buried by the IRA were subjected to the same treatment, as were the family of Robert McCartney, the man stabbed by IRA members in 2005.

Áine eventually ended this cycle and went to the police, who also have a lot to answer for, but first let's wind back to Liam Adams' earlier jobs. From 1998 to 2003 he worked part time for a youth project in Clonard Monastery, also close to the Falls Road. Adams was a frequent visitor to Clonard where he attended mass and used some of the priests as go betweens during the peace process. He says that as soon as he was aware Liam was there, he told the "relevant authorities" but the youth club did not confirm this.

Liam had lived and worked in Dundalk for a few years, involving himself in youth work. In 1998, he even launched a public campaign against a child abuse ring he said was operating in the town.

Adams says that he only learned that shortly before his fiftieth birthday in October 1998 his father had abused some of his siblings and that he heard it while trying to resolve Áine's case. Liam moved to Belfast in September. Did Liam tell Adams at this point, just as he was going to work in Clonard?

It should be noted that Liam has denied the allegations against him. His solicitor has also questioned whether he can get a fair trial in Northern Ireland. But this doesn't change the fact that there are many questions for Gerry Adams to answer in this case. There are questions for the police to answer too. They had plenty of time to prepare. Liam, who had lived south of the border for many years, missed a court appearance in November 2008. Yet the Police Service of Northern Ireland failed to get a European arrest warrant, with the result that gardai in Sligo had to let Liam go when he gave himself up last Monday.

The move in Northern Ireland is towards cutting down on red tape and form filling. This case shows that the paperwork may have slipped a little too far down the agenda.

Surely Gerry Adams wasn't right when he said in 1995, eight years after hearing the allegations against Liam, that people should not report child abuse to the police for fear that they might "use it for their own militaristic ends."

Adams was hinting that the intelligence services might use allegation of abuse as an opportunity to gather information on the IRA. If Liam Adams was ever considered an intelligence asset it would be a nightmare scenario for all concerned, but then no scenario looks good for Gerry Adams.

A politician who has this much explaining to do is a liability to everyone associated with him.

[Myles Na G.]

http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/jan/03/exclusive-revealed-sf-cover-up-of-liam-adams-senio/

[mylestheslasher]

I have always admired Gerry Adams, I have always supported his opinions and decisions politically for the past 20 years. I met him a couple of times canvasing in Cavan back when I was active in SF and I thought highly of him. Initially this story all seemed like UTV putting in the boot for a cheap trick against Gerry but some of what I am reading since has changed my mind. I can understand why Gerry, given his high public profile as the face of SF, tried to keep his brothers past under wraps for fear it would play out badly in the media against him and SF. However doing this makes him no better than than the bishops and cardinals that covered up abuse in churches. Adams is a public representative and for him to know his brother was a paedophille and allow him to swan around youth groups etc is a total dereliction of his duty towards people he represents or would like to represent.
I also have a problem morally that Adams would be playing the caring Uncle role to his niece and then be palling up to his "not so estranged" brother as SF do's elsewhere. I have a problem that still Adams appears to be releasing false stories about his brother to the media in an attempt to portray himself as being a martyr and not a villain.
We have SF people in Louth quiting due to his lack of actions and the subsequent mis-information.

Gerry Adams should now resign as SF leader before he does irreparable damage to its reputation. Alternatively, he should be removed. Sadly this is all a terrible, self inflicted, black mark on the legacy of Gerry Adams and I take no enjoyment in saying that.

[Hurler on the Bitch]

There is a sad but true cliche in this regard: 'all political careers end in failure'. GA is now on the brink as his credibility beyond west Belfast in its final throes. Just like the Tories and Margaret Thatcher in 1990, I think that GA is due a visit from the men in grey suits within the party to tell him that he has been fatally damaged. Just like an alcoholic, Adams may just be the last to realise that the problem is himself.

PS - in Sinn Fein, should the 'men in grey suits' not be the 'British Government paid community workers in O'Neill's zip-up jackets'? Discuss.

[pintsofguinness]

I have always admired Gerry Adams, I have always supported his opinions and decisions politically for the past 20 years. I met him a couple of times canvasing in Cavan back when I was active in SF and I thought highly of him. Initially this story all seemed like UTV putting in the boot for a cheap trick against Gerry but some of what I am reading since has changed my mind. I can understand why Gerry, given his high public profile as the face of SF, tried to keep his brothers past under wraps for fear it would play out badly in the media against him and SF. However doing this makes him no better than than the bishops and cardinals that covered up abuse in churches. Adams is a public representative and for him to know his brother was a paedophille and allow him to swan around youth groups etc is a total dereliction of his duty towards people he represents or would like to represent.
I also have a problem morally that Adams would be playing the caring Uncle role to his niece and then be palling up to his "not so estranged" brother as SF do's elsewhere. I have a problem that still Adams appears to be releasing false stories about his brother to the media in an attempt to portray himself as being a martyr and not a villain.
We have SF people in Louth quiting due to his lack of actions and the subsequent mis-information.

Gerry Adams should now resign as SF leader before he does irreparable damage to its reputation. Alternatively, he should be removed. Sadly this is all a terrible, self inflicted, black mark on the legacy of Gerry Adams and I take no enjoyment in saying that.

I'd lean towards giving him the benefit of the doubt for now but I think he needs to show his face and answer some questions. 

[Main Street]

I can understand why Gerry, given his high public profile as the face of SF, tried to keep his brothers past under wraps for fear it would play out badly in the media against him and SF. However doing this makes him no better than than the bishops and cardinals that covered up abuse in churches.

You do realise that Adams claims to have spoken to social services in 1987 and claims to have made a statement to the PSNI in 2002, both which supported his niece's account. What similarity does that have to the Catholic church cover ups?
I don't recall where one of the accused clergy of cover ups ever made a statement to the relevant authorities supporting the abused person's account.

I don't see much new in the Tribunes claims that their  'investigation has uncovered a massive cover-up to find holes'
It appears Adam's brother has always denied the abuse claims, even to his brother.
Adams says he moved to get his brother expelled from SF, did Adams ever claim he succeeded in that move?

Adams claimed his brother had a minor role in SF in Louth and definitely referred to that very minor role in the RTE interview. That would be about the only clear hole found in his account.

[Myles Na G.]

I can understand why Gerry, given his high public profile as the face of SF, tried to keep his brothers past under wraps for fear it would play out badly in the media against him and SF. However doing this makes him no better than than the bishops and cardinals that covered up abuse in churches.

You do realise that Adams claims to have spoken to social services in 1987 and claims to have made a statement to the PSNI in 2002, both which supported his niece's account. What similarity does that have to the Catholic church cover ups?
I don't recall where one of the accused clergy of cover ups ever made a statement to the relevant authorities supporting the abused person's account.

I don't see much new in the Tribunes claims that their  'investigation has uncovered a massive cover-up to find holes'
It appears Adam's brother has always denied the abuse claims, even to his brother.
Adams says he moved to get his brother expelled from SF, did Adams ever claim he succeeded in that move?

Adams claimed his brother had a minor role in SF in Louth and definitely referred to that very minor role in the RTE interview. That would be about the only clear hole found in his account.

Adams' account leaks like a sieve. His claims about contacting authorities at Clonard youth club or youth club officials in Dundalk have been contradicted by those same people. He has yet to explain why he permitted his brother to continue working with children for 5 years in west Belfast without doing anything about it. He claims to have made moves to have his brother expelled from Sinn Fein: now we learn Liam Adams was one of the movers and shakers in the party in that area for many years after Adams claims he intervened. Adams claimed that he was estranged from his brother, yet we learn now that no such estrangement took place and that Gerry was still attending Liam's wedding, the christening of his kids, etc. Gerry has been shown to have lied and lied and lied again. He should go.

[pintsofguinness]

I can understand why Gerry, given his high public profile as the face of SF, tried to keep his brothers past under wraps for fear it would play out badly in the media against him and SF. However doing this makes him no better than than the bishops and cardinals that covered up abuse in churches.

You do realise that Adams claims to have spoken to social services in 1987 and claims to have made a statement to the PSNI in 2002, both which supported his niece's account. What similarity does that have to the Catholic church cover ups?
I don't recall where one of the accused clergy of cover ups ever made a statement to the relevant authorities supporting the abused person's account.

I don't see much new in the Tribunes claims that their  'investigation has uncovered a massive cover-up to find holes'
It appears Adam's brother has always denied the abuse claims, even to his brother.
Adams says he moved to get his brother expelled from SF, did Adams ever claim he succeeded in that move?

Adams claimed his brother had a minor role in SF in Louth and definitely referred to that very minor role in the RTE interview. That would be about the only clear hole found in his account.

Adams' account leaks like a sieve. His claims about contacting authorities at Clonard youth club or youth club officials in Dundalk have been contradicted by those same people. He has yet to explain why he permitted his brother to continue working with children for 5 years in west Belfast without doing anything about it. He claims to have made moves to have his brother expelled from Sinn Fein: now we learn Liam Adams was one of the movers and shakers in the party in that area for many years after Adams claims he intervened. Adams claimed that he was estranged from his brother, yet we learn now that no such estrangement took place and that Gerry was still attending Liam's wedding, the christening of his kids, etc. Gerry has been shown to have lied and lied and lied again. He should go.

I woudnt read much in to that, there's members of my family don't speak to each other and they've been invited too and attended weddings and christianings, for the sake of the rest of the family and to stop rows. 

[Evil Genius]

You do realise that Adams claims to have spoken to social services in 1987 and claims to have made a statement to the PSNI in 2002, both which supported his niece's account. What similarity does that have to the Catholic church cover ups?
I don't recall where one of the accused clergy of cover ups ever made a statement to the relevant authorities supporting the abused person's account.

I don't see much new in the Tribunes claims that their  'investigation has uncovered a massive cover-up to find holes'
It appears Adam's brother has always denied the abuse claims, even to his brother.
Adams says he moved to get his brother expelled from SF, did Adams ever claim he succeeded in that move?

Adams claimed his brother had a minor role in SF in Louth and definitely referred to that very minor role in the RTE interview. That would be about the only clear hole found in his account.

Wow! I must say, I'm hugely impressed by your ability to operate a keyboard, whilst simultaneously sticking an index finger in each ear and singing "La-La-La-La-La" continuously until the nasty people stop saying bad things about your beloved Fuhrer Party President.

What with you, Jedward and Bertie Ahern's Accountant, who'd have thought Oireland could still produce such talent - and in the face of a Recession, too!

Get yourself an Agent, quick, and start rehearsing for Simon Cowell...

[Evil Genius]

I woudnt read much in to that, there's members of my family don't speak to each other and they've been invited too and attended weddings and christianings, for the sake of the rest of the family and to stop rows.

Righto, so.

May I take it that if the reason you weren't speaking a member of your family (a brother, in fact) was because you believed that he had raped your four year old neice (and beat up her mother), that you wouldn't raise any objection to his attending a family wedding*, even though there would be bound to be lots of little children there, as well?

And then when questioned about it later, you would "forget" that the brother had been at these family events some time after you had decided to disown him?

Ever heard the term "GUBU"? 

* - Or a Christening, ffs! 

[Puckoon]

I woudnt read much in to that, there's members of my family don't speak to each other and they've been invited too and attended weddings and christianings, for the sake of the rest of the family and to stop rows.

Righto, so.

May I take it that if the reason you weren't speaking a member of your family (a brother, in fact) was because you believed that he had raped your four year old neice (and beat up her mother), that you wouldn't raise any objection to his attending a family wedding*, even though there would be bound to be lots of little children there, as well?

And then when questioned about it later, you would "forget" that the brother had been at these family events some time after you had decided to disown him?

Ever heard the term "GUBU"? 

* - Or a Christening, ffs! 

I have not, what the hell is it?