250,000 State employees on strike

[Gnevin]

Ok no problem tell the Private sector to get real and tell us how we will save 1.3bl if wage cuts and jobs cuts are out.   

I'm telling you that I won't get bogged down in a manufactured public - private divide and you keep quizzing from that stand point.

No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.

The simple fact is 1.3 bl MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?

[Zapatista]

No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.

The simple fact is 1.3 MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?

I know it must be saved. How about the Government take the tough decisions the say they need to take and introduce a fair Tax system. How about they act like a Government in a Country in crisis and show some leadership. Take back corrib. Chase tax exiles. Stop paying bonuses to failed exectutives and claim back bonuses paid for jobs badly done. Take those who really carried out economic treason and deal with them (eg. Bertie Ahern) instead of accusing starving people who shop in the north of being treasonous.

To be honest I couldn't care less where it comes from. My point is that the people who work in the private sector are blaming the people in the public sector and visa versa while the people who are to blame are pulling the strings and stoking the flames to divert from themselves. We need to pay and we rightly should but not untill those responsible are made and seen as responsible. 

[Lecale2]

instead of accusing starving people who shop in the north of being treasonous.

A bit over the top maybe?

[Gnevin]

No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.

The simple fact is 1.3 MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?

I know it must be saved. How about the Government take the tough decisions the say they need to take and introduce a fair Tax system. How about they act like a Government in a Country in crisis and show some leadership. Take back corrib. Chase tax exiles. Stop paying bonuses to failed exectutives and claim back bonuses paid for jobs badly done. Take those who really carried out economic treason and deal with them (eg. Bertie Ahern) instead of accusing starving people who shop in the north of being treasonous.

To be honest I couldn't care less where it comes from. My point is that the people who work in the private sector are blaming the people in the public sector and visa versa while the people who are to blame are pulling the strings and stoking the flames to divert from themselves. We need to pay and we rightly should but not untill those responsible are made and seen as responsible.

Once again from you populist nonsense, tax increases for the general population won't cover these loses let alone taxing the "high" profile targets .

I ain't blaming the public sector just saying they need to get real.

We need to pay and we rightly should but not untill those responsible are made and seen as responsible.

More populist nonsense ,ever heard of due processes? We can't just go down to the banks and string these guys up. We don't have time to wait for the court to find these guys guilty. The  budget needs to be fixed this December not December 3 years and even if we did string these guy's up 1.3bl ain't going to fall out of their pockets

[Zapatista]

instead of accusing starving people who shop in the north of being treasonous.

A bit over the top maybe?

Some people who are about to become homeless and end up with debts they'll never pay and calling them starving prob is over the top but not as far over as calling them treasonous.

Gnevin, my outlook has never been popular. It isn't popular now. The popular view is to blame eachother. My view hasn't changed in 10 years. If this had have been done 10 years ago it would be dealt with by now but it looks like it Will be put on the neverending long finger again. It's a merrygoround. I'm far from an economist but I do think that bad practice left unpunished leads to more bad practice. I'm all on for letting the country crash and turn to anarchy at this stage. A lesson hard learnt perhaps.

[Gnevin]

instead of accusing starving people who shop in the north of being treasonous.

A bit over the top maybe?

Some people who are about to become homeless and end up with debts they'll never pay and calling them starving prob is over the top but not as far over as calling them treasonous.

Gnevin, my outlook has never been popular. It isn't popular now. The popular view is to blame eachother. My view hasn't changed in 10 years. If this had have been done 10 years ago it would be dealt with by now but it looks like it Will be put on the neverending long finger again. It's a merrygoround. I'm far from an economist but I do think that bad practice left unpunished leads to more bad practice. I'm all on for letting the country crash and turn to anarchy at this stage. A lesson hard learnt perhaps.

There is a difference between popular and populism.
Zap you really are wired to the moon! Between calling for blood on the streets and your latest outrageous statement. To quote the philosopher Dunphyious   "You've jumped the fence baby"

[Zapatista]

There is a difference between popular and populism.
Zap you really are wired to the moon! Between calling for blood on the streets and your latest outrageous statement. To quote the philosopher Dunphyious   "You've jumped the fence baby"

'Blood on the streets'? This is something i'm used to at this stage. I say what I think and those who disagree make me out to be a lunatic.  First they ingnore you. Then they laugh at yuo. Then they fight you. Then.....they laugh at you again. Eventually they win and we go back to the start.

[Tankie]

No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.

The simple fact is 1.3 MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?

I know it must be saved. How about the Government take the tough decisions the say they need to take and introduce a fair Tax system. How about they act like a Government in a Country in crisis and show some leadership. Take back corrib. Chase tax exiles. Stop paying bonuses to failed exectutives and claim back bonuses paid for jobs badly done. Take those who really carried out economic treason and deal with them (eg. Bertie Ahern) instead of accusing starving people who shop in the north of being treasonous.

To be honest I couldn't care less where it comes from. My point is that the people who work in the private sector are blaming the people in the public sector and visa versa while the people who are to blame are pulling the strings and stoking the flames to divert from themselves. We need to pay and we rightly should but not untill those responsible are made and seen as responsible.

it takes more than that Zap and the quicker we move the better...i work for a company that was hit in Q3 last year with a major drop in sale, revenue etc and once these figures were announced they had a meeting the next day and in that meeting - full salary freeze not matter what, pay cut for some, all travel was cut, any expenditure cut (couldnt even get a notepad at one stage), all recruitment stopped. In Q1 of this year they cut 10% of staff, expenditure and travel freeze stayed in place and the pay freeze too.

Over the last few days it was announced we are rehiring again and unless has an unexpected drop there will be a pay rise and a bonus paid next year....travel and expenditure still need to be approved by senior management but my point is last year we were all in shock between lay offs, wage cuts etc and now due to that quick action the company saved millions and are now back on a safe footing......this has hapened all over the private sector and the companies that didnt act quickly are gone.going out of business and this is why the private sector expect the government to do the same as they did and get this turned around quickly by making the tough decisions now

[muppet]

My proposal would be to bring in a MAXIMUM wage of €100000/annum for government officials. The rest of the country should be forced to live with less than this. And bring down the cost of living to suit people's needs (if that could be done) .

Every multinational and anyone of talent would be gone in the morning.

Why? They'd have less to pay their employers.

They (the employers) would be taking such a massive pay cut themselves that 'they' would be gone like a shot.

[Bogball XV]

Ok no problem tell the Private sector to get real and tell us how we will save 1.3bl if wage cuts and jobs cuts are out.   

I'm telling you that I won't get bogged down in a manufactured public - private divide and you keep quizzing from that stand point.

No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.

The simple fact is 1.3 bl MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?

1.3bn

FFS Gnevin, we're going to be short 26bn this year and you're looking to save 1.3bn, we were budgeting to be down 20bn this year, 20bn next year, 16bn the following year and then level in 5yrs - there's zero chance of this happening, we need real cuts, not shitty 1bns here and there.

[muppet]

Ok no problem tell the Private sector to get real and tell us how we will save 1.3bl if wage cuts and jobs cuts are out.   

I'm telling you that I won't get bogged down in a manufactured public - private divide and you keep quizzing from that stand point.

No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.

The simple fact is 1.3 bl MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?

1.3bn

FFS Gnevin, we're going to be short 26bn this year and you're looking to save 1.3bn, we were budgeting to be down 20bn this year, 20bn next year, 16bn the following year and then level in 5yrs - there's zero chance of this happening, we need real cuts, not shitty 1bns here and there.

We might be better off if the Government do nothing. Then it will really get sorted within about 12 months.

[Bogball XV]

Ok no problem tell the Private sector to get real and tell us how we will save 1.3bl if wage cuts and jobs cuts are out.   

I'm telling you that I won't get bogged down in a manufactured public - private divide and you keep quizzing from that stand point.

No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.

The simple fact is 1.3 bl MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?

1.3bn

FFS Gnevin, we're going to be short 26bn this year and you're looking to save 1.3bn, we were budgeting to be down 20bn this year, 20bn next year, 16bn the following year and then level in 5yrs - there's zero chance of this happening, we need real cuts, not shitty 1bns here and there.

We might be better off if the Government do nothing. Then it will really get sorted within about 12 months.

yeah, would be better than the zombie century we're heading into - mcwilliams often posited uruguay as an example of where we're going (and that doesn't mean south africa via the play-offs) and he could be right - dunno would that be too bad though (always wanted to visit montevideo).

[Gnevin]

Ok no problem tell the Private sector to get real and tell us how we will save 1.3bl if wage cuts and jobs cuts are out.   

I'm telling you that I won't get bogged down in a manufactured public - private divide and you keep quizzing from that stand point.

No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.

The simple fact is 1.3 bl MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?

1.3bn

FFS Gnevin, we're going to be short 26bn this year and you're looking to save 1.3bn, we were budgeting to be down 20bn this year, 20bn next year, 16bn the following year and then level in 5yrs - there's zero chance of this happening, we need real cuts, not shitty 1bns here and there.

1.3BL is the amount that must be cut from Public Sector pay or so say FF. Not the total of the cuts required .

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1125/1224259392551.html

[Bogball XV]

Ok no problem tell the Private sector to get real and tell us how we will save 1.3bl if wage cuts and jobs cuts are out.   

I'm telling you that I won't get bogged down in a manufactured public - private divide and you keep quizzing from that stand point.

No your telling me to stop asking the private sector to offer up solutions and that we should all bury our heads in the sand and pretend we don't have a major budget black hole.

The simple fact is 1.3 bl MUST be saved, do you accept this fact?

1.3bn

FFS Gnevin, we're going to be short 26bn this year and you're looking to save 1.3bn, we were budgeting to be down 20bn this year, 20bn next year, 16bn the following year and then level in 5yrs - there's zero chance of this happening, we need real cuts, not shitty 1bns here and there.

1.3BL is the amount that must be cut from Public Sector pay or so say FF. Not the total of the cuts required .

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1125/1224259392551.html

Enough said

[Bogball XV]

Re the paltry 1.3bn that the govt and unions are fighting over, i wonder has the dept of finance factored in the drop in tax take of reducing salary for these workers, this will also affect the revenue generated from the pension levy.  Have they applied a reasonable multiplier to see what the effect on the greater economy will be?  Whilst these may seem like basic questions, after the pension levy debacle they have to be asked.
I also wish that when public sector workers are being interviewed on prime time etc they'd stop referring to the 5% or 7% drop in take home pay due to the pension levy, as it's tax deductible, the effect is essentially half of that.