Author Topic: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016  (Read 495487 times)

ONEDerry

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #6870 on: March 07, 2018, 09:12:21 PM »
Croppy boy Michael would better keeping his mouth shut. It's simple Mickey. Irish people do not want to play for the made up country except for those who doff the cap and put any sense of their Irishness to one side while they stand to GSTQ in Windsor. O'Neill and others have never stood up and challenged the status quo yet questions why Irish people want to play for their country.

f**k me but if you are going to rant like that you should at least read what he said.

/Jim.

I know what he has said now and in the past. He has and continues to be a croppy boy questioning the reasons why people want to play for Ireland an not his 6 county, illegitimate statelet just to keep his bosses happy. Any nationalist who plays for or goes anywhere near that Sh1t hole should be ashamed of themselves.

red hander

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #6871 on: March 07, 2018, 09:42:35 PM »
The Billy Boys had the opportunity a few years back to move away from WP to a more open and welcoming environment for all.  They did not want to and are happy playing at Castle Greyskull.  Decisions like this are why Catholics don't want to play for them.
A typically balanced post.  Maze Stadium would have been a white elephant.  Have you a got a playground name for Ravenhill too given Ulster Rugby were not in favour of a move to the Mae either?

The main reason for the Are We A Country fraternity being opposed was because the bigots didn't want to share a stadium with the GAA
You're wrong.  The reasons for opposition to the Maze site were a) The size of the playing surface and the proposed capacity and the impact this would have on atmosphere at matches was the first main reason b)  Poor transport  links, distance from Belfast and the lack of bars etc in the vicinity was the other main reason for opposition to the Maze.

I rest my case... and they accuse republicans of rewriting history  ::)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 09:44:43 PM by red hander »

michaelg

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #6872 on: March 07, 2018, 09:52:48 PM »
The Billy Boys had the opportunity a few years back to move away from WP to a more open and welcoming environment for all.  They did not want to and are happy playing at Castle Greyskull.  Decisions like this are why Catholics don't want to play for them.
A typically balanced post.  Maze Stadium would have been a white elephant.  Have you a got a playground name for Ravenhill too given Ulster Rugby were not in favour of a move to the Mae either?

The main reason for the Are We A Country fraternity being opposed was because the bigots didn't want to share a stadium with the GAA
You're wrong.  The reasons for opposition to the Maze site were a) The size of the playing surface and the proposed capacity and the impact this would have on atmosphere at matches was the first main reason b)  Poor transport  links, distance from Belfast and the lack of bars etc in the vicinity was the other main reason for opposition to the Maze.

I rest my case... and they accuse republicans of rewriting history  ::)
How you reach that conclusion?
When NI team is not going well, attendances can fall away. 8 - 10,000 fans rattling about a 40,000 seater stadium in the middle of nowhere in a stand miles from the pitch would have been shite!  That was the reason for opposition. I have been watching NI for decades, so am better placed to comment on this than you.

An Watcher

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #6873 on: March 07, 2018, 10:13:29 PM »
Hahaha they didn't want to move because of the size of the pitch, Hahaha, that's a cracker,

michaelg

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #6874 on: March 07, 2018, 10:27:06 PM »
Hahaha they didn't want to move because of the size of the pitch, Hahaha, that's a cracker,
You do know a "soccer" pitch is smaller?

red hander

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #6875 on: March 07, 2018, 10:39:07 PM »
The Billy Boys had the opportunity a few years back to move away from WP to a more open and welcoming environment for all.  They did not want to and are happy playing at Castle Greyskull.  Decisions like this are why Catholics don't want to play for them.
A typically balanced post.  Maze Stadium would have been a white elephant.  Have you a got a playground name for Ravenhill too given Ulster Rugby were not in favour of a move to the Mae either?

The main reason for the Are We A Country fraternity being opposed was because the bigots didn't want to share a stadium with the GAA
You're wrong.  The reasons for opposition to the Maze site were a) The size of the playing surface and the proposed capacity and the impact this would have on atmosphere at matches was the first main reason b)  Poor transport  links, distance from Belfast and the lack of bars etc in the vicinity was the other main reason for opposition to the Maze.

I rest my case... and they accuse republicans of rewriting history  ::)
How you reach that conclusion?
When NI team is not going well, attendances can fall away. 8 - 10,000 fans rattling about a 40,000 seater stadium in the middle of nowhere in a stand miles from the pitch would have been shite!  That was the reason for opposition. I have been watching NI for decades, so am better placed to comment on this than you.

What do you want, a wee medal? The bigots came out against sharing the stadium, has your memory gone? You're being fallacious. A GAA pitch isn't that much bigger than the maximum allowed for a soccer pitch, so this crap about being too far away from the pitch is ballix. WTF was Wembley like before its redevelopment. There's any amount of stadia with a track around them. Rubbish excuses to cover the truth

michaelg

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #6876 on: March 07, 2018, 10:44:21 PM »
The Billy Boys had the opportunity a few years back to move away from WP to a more open and welcoming environment for all.  They did not want to and are happy playing at Castle Greyskull.  Decisions like this are why Catholics don't want to play for them.
A typically balanced post.  Maze Stadium would have been a white elephant.  Have you a got a playground name for Ravenhill too given Ulster Rugby were not in favour of a move to the Mae either?

The main reason for the Are We A Country fraternity being opposed was because the bigots didn't want to share a stadium with the GAA
You're wrong.  The reasons for opposition to the Maze site were a) The size of the playing surface and the proposed capacity and the impact this would have on atmosphere at matches was the first main reason b)  Poor transport  links, distance from Belfast and the lack of bars etc in the vicinity was the other main reason for opposition to the Maze.

I rest my case... and they accuse republicans of rewriting history  ::)
How you reach that conclusion?
When NI team is not going well, attendances can fall away. 8 - 10,000 fans rattling about a 40,000 seater stadium in the middle of nowhere in a stand miles from the pitch would have been shite!  That was the reason for opposition. I have been watching NI for decades, so am better placed to comment on this than you.

What do you want, a wee medal? The bigots came out against sharing the stadium, has your memory gone? You're being fallacious. A GAA pitch isn't that much bigger than the maximum allowed for a soccer pitch, so this crap about being too far away from the pitch is ballix. WTF was Wembley like before its redevelopment. There's any amount of stadia with a track around them. Rubbish excuses to cover the truth
Think what you like.  There were many reasons for opposition to the Maze. The requirement to share a stadium with the GAA, and Ulster Rugby, was not one of the them.

oliverkelly

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #6877 on: March 07, 2018, 10:45:36 PM »
Any chance we could get Marcus McGuane back in an Ireland shirt? Played underage for Ireland and made his debut for Barcelona tonight after a January switch from Arsenal

macdanger2

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #6878 on: March 07, 2018, 10:56:33 PM »
Any chance we could get Marcus McGuane back in an Ireland shirt? Played underage for Ireland and made his debut for Barcelona tonight after a January switch from Arsenal

Zero chance. Once a player switches, he cannot switch back

6th sam

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #6879 on: March 09, 2018, 01:13:44 AM »
Players will look after themselves.  I'm pretty sure that if Niall McGinn was asked to represent ROI he would have jumped at the chance. He wasn't so to play international football he plays for NI and has marked the big stage by scoring at the last European Championships.  He has came out and said that he is a ROI fan.

If the IFA addressed some of the issues that still exist and that created a more welcoming environment for Catholics/Nationalists then I feel in time the want to represent ROI will deteriorate.   

those Issues are (I'm aware they have made progress in a lot of these areas but they still exist, some to a lesser extent):

Anthem
Flag
Supporter Chants/Flags
NI Supporters Clubs/Pubs (Wouldn't feel safe going there for a pint)

I for one would like an NI sports anthems used for matches Danny Boy would be my choice).  Hopefully this wil come in time.

What supporter chants / flags are an issue?  The stadium is full of folk wearing green and white, with very few NI flags or Union Jacks on display.

Although I can understand catholic players and fans not being in favour of GSTQ at WP, how come there is not the same contention in relation to Ulster Protestants either playing or attending Ireland rugby matches at the Aviva?  When I attend Ireland games in Dublin, I stand respectfully during the Soldier's Song.  It's not a big deal.

Finally, I know of 1 NI Supporters' Club Bar on the Shankill.  I'm not sure I would be that keen on drinking on any bar on the Shankill Road myself, so don't see this as a big issue.

Therein lies the problem .
Very few union jacks ????
How many union jacks  are on display in Welsh or Scottish matches???

If NI soccer wants to make comfortable those from an “Irish “ background ( ie half the population) they are going to have to recognise , indeed foster that Irish ethos and put it on a level playing field with the
British ethos. Being honest though, no matter what is done now, many from an Irish background will never have any affinity to Northern Ireland. The erstwhile majority , had 100 years of a crack at genuinely respecting the indigenous Irish population, but too often their leaders have either fostered or pandered to anti-Irish racism. There are some within the “Irish community” who are prepared to tolerate this overt Britishness of NI soccer, for a variety of reasons , but we all feel uncomfortable and excluded by it, if we’re honest.
I respect anyone’s decision to play for Northern Ireland. Many put up with the Britishness, to further their professional career , for example, and some genuinely  don’t care . However NI soccer has consistently showed no respect , understanding or empathy for Those who choose to play for Ireland. I would question either the intelligence or honesty of the likes of Michael O’neill , who question the  Right of a player who under parental guidance and for convenience , avails of their local youth development structure , but when they reach adulthood , make their own decision to play for the team they have an affinity with. I would compare it to that lad Grealish who declined the opportunity for a full Irish cap , to throw his lot in with England- We mightn’t like it, but he has a right  to choose .
Michael o’neill Obviously has a strong affinity to NI, but whether he likes it or not , most perceived catholic/nationalist/Irish do not .
NI soccer has tried to change, but alot of their supporters see NI as part of their Britishness .
Windsor park, GSTQ, poppies, Red Hand flags , union jacks, previous treatment of Celtic players, poor representation of perceived nationalists on the senior squad, reinforces that perception of Britishness . NI soccer are probably nervous about diluting that British identity , because in many ways it’s their meal ticket, and doesn’t matter how they dilute it, the majority of nationalists will never have a strong affinity to NI. So diluting Britishness would be a high risk strategy for them, and I can appreciate their reluctance to change, but for goodness sake stop gurning about Irishmen wanting to play for Ireland!!!

Rugby is interesting, there are socioeconomic reasons why Rugby has less representation from the political extremes . Historically there was only ever an Irish international team , pre and post partition,
And Ireland consistently compete as a top 8 country in the world. So it’s attractive to play for the international team.  It is an All-Island team, as opposed to a politically Irish team. Unionists are embraced as fellow countrymen ( eg current skipper Rory Best) and indeed many of the rugby people down south would be perceived to have a unionist or west-Brit ethos . Perhaps NI soccer could learn from this welcoming , politically neutral environment.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 01:19:18 AM by 6th sam »

Avondhu star

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #6880 on: March 09, 2018, 07:18:29 AM »
Players will look after themselves.  I'm pretty sure that if Niall McGinn was asked to represent ROI he would have jumped at the chance. He wasn't so to play international football he plays for NI and has marked the big stage by scoring at the last European Championships.  He has came out and said that he is a ROI fan.

If the IFA addressed some of the issues that still exist and that created a more welcoming environment for Catholics/Nationalists then I feel in time the want to represent ROI will deteriorate.   

those Issues are (I'm aware they have made progress in a lot of these areas but they still exist, some to a lesser extent):

Anthem
Flag
Supporter Chants/Flags
NI Supporters Clubs/Pubs (Wouldn't feel safe going there for a pint)

I for one would like an NI sports anthems used for matches Danny Boy would be my choice).  Hopefully this wil come in time.

What supporter chants / flags are an issue?  The stadium is full of folk wearing green and white, with very few NI flags or Union Jacks on display.

Although I can understand catholic players and fans not being in favour of GSTQ at WP, how come there is not the same contention in relation to Ulster Protestants either playing or attending Ireland rugby matches at the Aviva?  When I attend Ireland games in Dublin, I stand respectfully during the Soldier's Song.  It's not a big deal.

Finally, I know of 1 NI Supporters' Club Bar on the Shankill.  I'm not sure I would be that keen on drinking on any bar on the Shankill Road myself, so don't see this as a big issue.

Therein lies the problem .
Very few union jacks ????
How many union jacks  are on display in Welsh or Scottish matches???

If NI soccer wants to make comfortable those from an “Irish “ background ( ie half the population) they are going to have to recognise , indeed foster that Irish ethos and put it on a level playing field with the
British ethos. Being honest though, no matter what is done now, many from an Irish background will never have any affinity to Northern Ireland. The erstwhile majority , had 100 years of a crack at genuinely respecting the indigenous Irish population, but too often their leaders have either fostered or pandered to anti-Irish racism. There are some within the “Irish community” who are prepared to tolerate this overt Britishness of NI soccer, for a variety of reasons , but we all feel uncomfortable and excluded by it, if we’re honest.
I respect anyone’s decision to play for Northern Ireland. Many put up with the Britishness, to further their professional career , for example, and some genuinely  don’t care . However NI soccer has consistently showed no respect , understanding or empathy for Those who choose to play for Ireland. I would question either the intelligence or honesty of the likes of Michael O’neill , who question the  Right of a player who under parental guidance and for convenience , avails of their local youth development structure , but when they reach adulthood , make their own decision to play for the team they have an affinity with. I would compare it to that lad Grealish who declined the opportunity for a full Irish cap , to throw his lot in with England- We mightn’t like it, but he has a right  to choose .
Michael o’neill Obviously has a strong affinity to NI, but whether he likes it or not , most perceived catholic/nationalist/Irish do not .
NI soccer has tried to change, but alot of their supporters see NI as part of their Britishness .
Windsor park, GSTQ, poppies, Red Hand flags , union jacks, previous treatment of Celtic players, poor representation of perceived nationalists on the senior squad, reinforces that perception of Britishness . NI soccer are probably nervous about diluting that British identity , because in many ways it’s their meal ticket, and doesn’t matter how they dilute it, the majority of nationalists will never have a strong affinity to NI. So diluting Britishness would be a high risk strategy for them, and I can appreciate their reluctance to change, but for goodness sake stop gurning about Irishmen wanting to play for Ireland!!!

Rugby is interesting, there are socioeconomic reasons why Rugby has less representation from the political extremes . Historically there was only ever an Irish international team , pre and post partition,
And Ireland consistently compete as a top 8 country in the world. So it’s attractive to play for the international team.  It is an All-Island team, as opposed to a politically Irish team. Unionists are embraced as fellow countrymen ( eg current skipper Rory Best) and indeed many of the rugby people down south would be perceived to have a unionist or west-Brit ethos . Perhaps NI soccer could learn from this welcoming , politically neutral environment.

The Northern rugby supporters were the people who were running Northern Ireland since 1922 with all its discrimination practices and gerrymandering. There wasn't too many Shankill Rd lads in office in Stormont except to clean the floors and empty the bins
 No point trying to portray the Northern rugby supporter as lovers of equality
Lee Harvey Oswald , your country needs you

Main Street

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #6881 on: March 09, 2018, 10:44:18 PM »
Should it not work out for the kid, they can chose to declare for the IFA.  Whisky nose Michael is not even au fait with the statutes on player eligibility.


According to Article 8.1 a player can only request once to change nationality.

Presuming a player has gone through Northern Ireland schoolboy system, he will have request to change to ROI.  Then that is it.  "should it not work out for the kid" he cannot go back.  I understand from O'Neill articles this has happened to players.

With your knowledge of the statues and the history of the eligibility rules can you confirm if this is the case or not?

As an aside why do you continually make the snide references to the man's relationship with alcohol?

/Jim.
/Jim, now you are confirming your complete  lack of knowledge in these matters, you are way out of your depth.

As long as a dual national player has not played in a competitive game at any age level, he/she is NOT regarded as having used up the first choice.
A young Nordie born player would have to play competitively for the North before being regarded as making a first choice,  to play for the IFA. In that regard, that player would have to apply for permission to switch to the FAI
A dual national player who has played competitively for the first association at underage level can chose to switch to the second nationality, but the player is only regarded as being switched when he/she is capped at a competitive level for the 2nd association.
For example should James McClean have not been capped by Trap, he would have been free to return to the black north.
Them's the rules and the rules are designed to favour the player against exploitative associations (like the IFA?).


« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 10:51:19 PM by Main Street »

Jim_Murphy_74

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #6882 on: March 09, 2018, 11:15:50 PM »
A dual national player who has played competitively for the first association at underage level can chose to switch to the second nationality, but the player is only regarded as being switched when he/she is capped at a competitive level for the 2nd association.

Sorry but that's just incorrect. Once an international transfer request is submitted in writing and approved there is no change allowed.

That is why Daniel Devine with 0 caps for the Republic could not join the Northern Ireland squad..

/Jim.

http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/players/player=250024166/profile/index.html

http://resources.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/02/78/29/07/fifastatutsweben_neutral.pdf
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 11:40:14 PM by Jim_Murphy_74 »

JPGJOHNNYG

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #6883 on: March 12, 2018, 03:55:48 PM »
So Michael back tracking a bit today with a big long statement trying to say I didn't say the FAI tap up Catholics. Hmm lost the high ground on this on so many levels. Martin basically cut him down instantly with his reply that Michael was the only person who 'poached' on his watch. Would have been interesting if any journalist actually bothered to talk to the partick player named by Michael. I guess if his reply was along the lines that he couldn't give a feck not playing for the IFA then Michael might have looked even more of a fool over all this nonsense.

6th sam

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Re: The OFFICIAL FAI Thread.....Roll on France 2016
« Reply #6884 on: March 12, 2018, 07:29:33 PM »
So Michael back tracking a bit today with a big long statement trying to say I didn't say the FAI tap up Catholics. Hmm lost the high ground on this on so many levels. Martin basically cut him down instantly with his reply that Michael was the only person who 'poached' on his watch. Would have been interesting if any journalist actually bothered to talk to the partick player named by Michael. I guess if his reply was along the lines that he couldn't give a feck not playing for the IFA then Michael might have looked even more of a fool over all this nonsense.

Michael really doesn’t get it. He thinks he has a valid argument , but the bottom line is that a player has the right to choose within the nationality rules . He literally doesn’t understand or respect that loads of the soccer fraternity in the 6 counties have no affinity to Northern Ireland . Born in ballymena and living most of his life in England and Scotland , I respect that his influences may give him an affinity to NI soccer, but that NI affinity  is not there for a large percentage of the population of the six counties. How can he not understand and respect this  basic fact?
He comes out of this saga very poorly, lacking empathy for those with an Irish as opposed to Northern Irish identity.