Limerick hurlers

[Galwaybhoy]

Can Justin be reappointed?

[Croí na hÉireann]

Can Justin be reappointed?

I'm fairly sure he can

[Zulu]

Does that mean they will be as good as Clare next year?

Or maybe Cork?

[dowling]

Well Zulu we all know there are going to be boys continually coming through in Cork and the revamp seems to have brought them on again. How far however remains to be seen.
And anyway aren't they now playing and being more effective playing the way Ger was trying to get them to play and to which Denis Walsh referred to after the game. Too much short game and messing around and not enough direct hurling the first half but got the team to change for the second.

[Zulu]

  Fair dues to you dowling, their first Munster final appearance in a few years is down to the young lads and them playing the way Ger wanted them to play. Sure it has nothing to do with Denis Walsh or the continuing fine form of Donal Og, Sean Og, Ronan Curran, the O'Connors etc. You're consistent anyway I'll give you that.

[dowling]

Fair dues to you dowling, their first Munster final appearance in a few years is down to the young lads and them playing the way Ger wanted them to play. Sure it has nothing to do with Denis Walsh or the continuing fine form of Donal Og, Sean Og, Ronan Curran, the O'Connors etc. You're consistent anyway I'll give you that.

Did you hear what Denis Walsh said after the match Zulu? Now you might have me here but I thought it amounted to having the team play a different game in the second half and it sounded very like the way the strikers ridiculed Ger for. And every team is revamped with new additions of quality. You could maybe say it's essential for continual development.
So are you putting one victory over a poor Tipp performance down to those three players you named and using that victory as a yardstick? What do you expect from Cork this year Zulu?

[Zulu]

dowling, I have been consistent in my position on Cork (or player power in general), if the players don't want the manger then he should go, simple as. We are now seeing the fruits of that logic in Cork and the madness of the opposite stance in Limerick. Gerald Mac wasn't the man to bring Cork forward but, IMO Cork are no longer capable of winning an AI and I wouldn't bet on them winning a Munster title either. I thought Waterford would win last week and I think they'll win the replay. I would rank Cork joint fourth in Ireland alongside Galway and behind Waterford, Tipp and Kilkenny. However, the O'Connor's, Donal Og, Sean Og, Gardiner, Kenny, Curran etc. are legends of the game and if you work with them then they will reward you with quality performances. Denis Walsh is doing that and he is getting the rewards, unfortunately for Cork that is no longer good enough to beat Kilkenny but all any squad can do is play to their potential. They are doing that under Walsh and weren't under Gerald, I don't see any great difference in Cork's style of play Walsh seems to want them to mix the long and short game while Gerald seemed to want to stamp out the short game all together which was a stupid thing to do.

Cork, by the way, were beaten in both the minor and U21 already this year which is a poor reflection on the structures in Cork and ominous for the immediate future of Cork hurling.

[dowling]

Yea you're consistent Zulu even though at times i imagine you might like to change your viewpoint. Definitely consistent in your denial though.
Fruits of that logic? Had Cork no good wins under Ger?
While some of us might have been left with a bad taste over the actions of some Cork players during the strike it's not difficult to recognise their hurling ability. Great players for Cork over several years and great playing a short game, running game or more direct hurling. But everything doesn't always work on any given day and any approach is of course relative to the collective players.
Cork scored six points in the first half playing their short passing game and 2-09 in the second with a more direct style which tells a story. Of course on another day it could be the other way around. Against Tipp their hurling was more direct also. Now Denis Walsh, and also Donal OGrady, made reference to the need for it. I presume there were strong words at half time. I would wonder if the players have been doing things their way for too long to find it easy to adapt. But it is ironic, regardless of the players you mention, that the fruits you talk about are coming from a style of play those players previously opposed. Or were they just exagerating what was wrong with Ger's management to mask their personal differences. I don't remember Ger saying anything about stamping out the short game, did you pick that up somewhere?

Very surprised at your last paragraph. Reillers could have written that for you. Did he?

[Zulu]

Definitely consistent in your denial though.

Of what?

Fruits of that logic? Had Cork no good wins under Ger?

They didn't play in a Munster final under Ger, nor a league final I'm sure. Any team choc full of AI winners and All starts are bound to produce some decent performances.

But it is ironic, regardless of the players you mention, that the fruits you talk about are coming from a style of play those players previously opposed

Good to see the head is firmly in the sand still, you can't knock teh performances of Donal Og et al. so now you've convinced yourself that they are successful because they have changed their style (which they haven't really). There were loads of short puck outs against Tipp for example.

I don't remember Ger saying anything about stamping out the short game, did you pick that up somewhere?

Eh? I don't mind a guy arguing an oppossing point of view but if you can't accept anything that doesn't fit in with your world view then it reflects poorly on you. Everyone knows that Gerald was all about changing the short style of game Cork were playing.

Or were they just exagerating what was wrong with Ger's management to mask their personal differences.

Doesn't matter now ans didn't matter then why the players feel out with Gerald, they did and he should have walked. And there is now ample proof of improved performances after he left. By the way it is also interesting that the 'grasssroots' man that follows the jersey not the player couldn't be bothered his arse to support the Limerick hurlers.

Very surprised at your last paragraph. Reillers could have written that for you. Did he?

Not at all, just pointing out the fact that a primarily hurling county like Cork are underperforming at underage for a number of years now. When you compare teh structures that are in Cork with tose in Tipp, Waterford or Kilkenny it is no surprise.

[dowling]

When the present manager and a past manager, supposedly close to the players from the strike, voice concern for a need to concentrate on a more direct game surely that has to put a question mark over the strikers' approach or honesty.

Two finals, nothing won yet. Choc full of......bound to....some decent performances? And the point is?

So they haven't changed their style? Present and past manager said they did in the second half on Sunday and scored two and one half times more. Are you saying they didn't play a more direct game against Tipp? Are you watching games on a small screen

Changing a style of game and stamping something out isn't the same thing. Where or when exactly did Ger say he wanted to "stamp out" the short game? Even reading between the lines will do.

Of course what happened then matters now. It matters now in relation to people's integrity, what the whole strike was about and the impact it has had on Cork hurling hurling in general and 'player power' overall.

Underperforming at underage? Enter Frank. Ah come on Zulu, you can do better than that. That's the maturity of your debate about the style of play of the present Cork senior team?

[Zulu]

When the present manager and a past manager, supposedly close to the players from the strike, voice concern for a need to concentrate on a more direct game surely that has to put a question mark over the strikers' approach or honesty.

Eh? Some people think Cork should play a more direct game and this raises questions about the players honesty? I don't know what you're talking about.

Two finals, nothing won yet. Choc full of......bound to....some decent performances? And the point is?

That performances have improved since Gerald left.

So they haven't changed their style? Present and past manager said they did in the second half on Sunday and scored two and one half times more. Are you saying they didn't play a more direct game against Tipp?

There was a wind favouring Cork in the second half and for much of the second half they were being outplayed by Waterford, the two goals came against the run of play. Anyway, Cork always mixed the running game with more direct play so they haven't changed their style of play dramatically.

Of course what happened then matters now. It matters now in relation to people's integrity, what the whole strike was about and the impact it has had on Cork hurling hurling in general and 'player power' overall.

Only in your head. The reality is that none of us were involved so all our opinions are based on limited information and understanding of individuals motives. In other words alot of what you or I say and think about the issue is speculation.

But before this just returns to issues debated already (and in great depth) lets leave the strike and the reasons for it out of this. This is about the now and the future.

Cork v Limerick:

Cork GAA eventually sided with the players and have enjoyed their best year since before Gerald took over.

Limerick went with Justin and are now in division 2 of the league and out of the championship. The GAA fans you claimed followed the jersey, deserted the team in droves and won't be back next year if Justin is about.

By dealing with the situation the Cork players got a resolution and Cork have moved on. The Limerick players have allowed the situation to fester by simply 'retiring' and now after a disasterous year it looks like Justin will get the bullit and a new man will come in.

I think we know what counties will do from now on should similar issues arise.

[dowling]

Zulu I've no desire to rehash the old stuff either so we'll agree on that at least.
And we more or less agree on that different approaches can be taken in different games.

The fact still remains however that Denis Walsh spoke to the players at half time and told them to play a more direct game and as far as he was concerned that was more effective. At least that's what he said in his interview after the game. And Donal OGrady alluded to the same.
And this is where your denial comes in and rather than accepting what's in front of you pull out of the air that Ger wanted to stamp out the short game as if that was the problem for the players all along.

As for Limerick nothing of surprise there. However I don't think anyone in Limerick thought that by backing Justin there would be rewards on the pitch this year but were prepared to take a hit rather than end up as Cork mark 2. And Clare where the players got their wish? Are they playing better hurling this year?

Cork had a great win over Tipp, there's no doubt about that. They're still finding it hard to get past Waterford though and at the end of the day are they any closer to Kilkenny, which is what really matters?

[Berlin]

So O'Grady it is then. I hope it works out.
http://www.anfearrua.com/db.asp?a=topicdisplay&tid=907074

[youbetterbelieveit]

Great news for Limerick Hurling if we have got Donal O'Grady as manager, also the backroom team has a huge amount of Hurling knowledge there too. Ciaran Carey, TJ Ryan and Pat Heffernan.

This will definitely ensure we have the best limerick hurlers out on the field new summer.

Luimneach Abu..

[johnneycool]

Great news for Limerick Hurling if we have got Donal O'Grady as manager, also the backroom team has a huge amount of Hurling knowledge there too. Ciaran Carey, TJ Ryan and Pat Heffernan.

This will definitely ensure we have the best limerick hurlers out on the field new summer.

Luimneach Abu..

I know its still to be ratified and the limerick lads on AFR are creaming themselves, but I wonder did O'Grady hand pick his selectors or were they lumped upon him??
These 'dream teams' are rarely successful due to too many strong personalities who won't agree all the time.