the irish independent top 125 football and hurling stars

[ross matt]

From a Derry perspective happy with the inclusion of Sean O'Connell (107) Anthony Tohill (80) & Jim McKeever (42) but thought Tony Scullion would've been included.

Whatever about the other Derry guys Tohill should be far better placed than 80. Closest thing to Jacko in recent times.

[Leo]

this list is a load of crap - where is tony scullion and dermot mcnicholl?
sean marty lockhart was one of best in ireland for a long time too
i think derry have got a bad run here!!!

SM Lockhart & Hot-and Cold Dermot - no - but Scullion - absolutely - without equal in his era.

[mouview]

No Ja Fallon, Kevin Walsh, Tomas Mannion, Sean Og De Paor or most glaringly of all Michael Donnellan. Compilers must have pulled the names out of a drum.

[GalwayBayBoy]

No Ja Fallon, Kevin Walsh, Tomas Mannion, Sean Og De Paor or most glaringly of all Michael Donnellan. Compilers must have pulled the names out of a drum.

Donnellan not making it is a big omission but in fairness with the 3 in a row Galway team and the terrible twins there is a lot of competition to include a fair few of them so some of the newer names have been sacrificed at their altar. Sean Og after Tomas O'Se is probably the best wing-back of the past 20 years but he didn't make it either. In fact only PJ got in from the modern era.

[Turlough O Carolan]

I'm pleased that Mickey Kerins and Dermot Earley, Snr. overcame the double whammy of playing on poor teams and not being involved at a high level for a decent period of time.

Ignoring the obvious wind up, but I still should point out.

Earley won an All-Ireland 21 medal with Roscommon in 1966 - the first Connacht team to capture an All-Ireland U21 title. Dermot Earley was obviously at the height of his powers in the 1970s. Coincidentally, Mayo did not win any Connacht title in that decade and in fact were at the receiving end of many thrashings from the Ros in those days. Earley unfortunately played one of his poorest games for Ros in the 1980 All-Ireland final, the one game Mick O'Dwyer said the great Kerry team of the 70s/80s were very fortunate to win. Earley played on a very talented Roscommon team who were unlucky to arrive on the scene when Dublin and Kerry were at the height of their powers. And to be fair to Mayo, they did carry Earley shoulder high off the field when he retired from the county scene in 1985, after twenty years of senior county football. Roscommon's fortunes had well declined by that stage, much to the relief of many Mayomen! (thought Ros still shocked a highly regarded Mayo team the following year).

[Lar Naparka]

I'm pleased that Mickey Kerins and Dermot Earley, Snr. overcame the double whammy of playing on poor teams and not being involved at a high level for a decent period of time.

Ignoring the obvious wind up, but I still should point out.

Earley won an All-Ireland 21 medal with Roscommon in 1966 - the first Connacht team to capture an All-Ireland U21 title. Dermot Earley was obviously at the height of his powers in the 1970s. Coincidentally, Mayo did not win any Connacht title in that decade and in fact were at the receiving end of many thrashings from the Ros in those days. Earley unfortunately played one of his poorest games for Ros in the 1980 All-Ireland final, the one game Mick O'Dwyer said the great Kerry team of the 70s/80s were very fortunate to win. Earley played on a very talented Roscommon team who were unlucky to arrive on the scene when Dublin and Kerry were at the height of their powers. And to be fair to Mayo, they did carry Earley shoulder high off the field when he retired from the county scene in 1985, after twenty years of senior county football. Roscommon's fortunes had well declined by that stage, much to the relief of many Mayomen! (thought Ros still shocked a highly regarded Mayo team the following year).

I'm sorry, Turlough, but I don't know WTF you and Ross Matt are on about!
I paid a very sincere tribute to one of the greatest footballers and sportsmen I have known. If Dermot Earley had

been playing with, say, Kerry. he would have made it into the top three. Both you and the equally sensitive Ross Matt  may not have noticed that relatively few players were on Breheny's list who didn't have an All

Ireland or two to their names.It seems you both also failed to notice that I made mention of Ciaran McDonald, Eamonn O'Hara and Packy McGarty as well.
Unless Rossfan arrives on a Mayo thread to stir things up a bit, I don't bother with slagging  Roscommon or indeed

any other county and even with him it's only a case of giving as good as I get. I certainly bear no

grudge against Rossfan at all- indeed I throughly enjoy having him around and I'd like to think he sees nothing

personal in our jousts either.
But, coming back to your grievances; I can see no logical connection between Earley's brilliance and Mayo's form at

the time he played. Undoubtedly, Roscommon were the strongest team in Connacht for a good spell when Earley was in

his prime and equally undoubtedly, Earley was one of the main reasons for this.
So what?
How many All Irelands or National Leagues did Roscommon win during his career? (BTW; The same goes for every other

Connacht side as well.) AS far as I can recall, Earley made his senior debut in 1965; that's 44 years ago. Since

then a total of four All Irelands went west and all of them were won by Galway. By any standard of logic you may care to apply, Connacht sucks the hind tit when it comes to winning serious titles.
In the same period, Connacht teams won a total of five National Leagues between the lot of them.
Roscomon won just one of those and in their only appearance in an All Ireland in this period, they were destroyed by Kerry. (And no, I am not forgetting that Mayo were to suffer the same fate twice in later years.)
I made what I thought was a reasonable point when I stated that Breheny seemed to favour heavily those players who had at least an All Ireland to their names and most All Irelands have been won by the so-called "strong" counties. I don't see much point in bringing up Earlesy's u21 medal or the fact that Roscommon could thrash Mayo in his time either. If this was to be his only claim to fame, he'd have to join a very long queue.
To me, you appear to delude yourself in thinking Roscommon were a strong and talented side and that Earley's deserved place on the Indo's list was down to the brilliance of his colleagues but to me, this team made damn little impression when they crossed the Shannon to take on any of the Big Boys.
I am a bit disappointed that a sincere acknowledgement of the worth of Dermot Earley should be taken as a cheap swipe at the quality of the teams he played with. Earley got on the list on merit alone and so did Mickey Kerins. The others I mentioned might have made it also if only they played with stronger counties- that is all I implied and I don't understand your hump at what I had to say.

[Turlough O Carolan]

Lar, was only countering your point that he did not play on a poor team. We in Ros would kill to have the team like we had in the 70s/1980 again. Final scoreline in 1980 was Kerry 1-9 Ros 1-6. Hardly destroyed. Kerry, as I said, admit that is one they should not have won. But twas our own fault for abandoning the free flowing football that had served us well all year. A vintage All-Ireland it was not. Agree with the rest of your points.

[southsidejohnny]

Turlogh O Carolan, why wouldnt the Mayo men carry Dermot Early of the pitch , he was one of their own, not a drop of Roscommon blood in him. Born in Castlebar and moved with his parents to Ros when the dad got a teaching job there. Pat Lindsay a Mayo native from Geesala in Erris also played for Roscommon in that era, the dad moved Pat and the family up to the Bord na Mona place in Ros . Worse ye then went and snatched Sean Kilbride ,an All Ireland minor winner with Mayo in 1966 and a Mayo senior for nearly 10 years. Easy for ye to dominate Connacht football back in that era when ye had a fifth of the team made up by Mayo men.

[ross matt]

Lar I dont think you should call anyone else sensitive after a rant like that. I echo Turlough's point that we were countering your argument about Ross being a poor side during Early's prime. Back then a provincial title was worth quite a lot. So was a league title. They didnt do too badly when they left connacht either. Drew the '77 semi v armagh... lost by point to Dublin in'79.... lost by 3 to Kerry in 1980 (where in the name of God were they "destroyed"? in this match?).

None of your arguments remotely stand up. If you were'nt taking the piss then you were out of your depth knowledge wise about this period.

[ross matt]

No Ja Fallon, Kevin Walsh, Tomas Mannion, Sean Og De Paor or most glaringly of all Michael Donnellan. Compilers must have pulled the names out of a drum.

Donnellan not making it is a big omission but in fairness with the 3 in a row Galway team and the terrible twins there is a lot of competition to include a fair few of them so some of the newer names have been sacrificed at their altar. Sean Og after Tomas O'Se is probably the best wing-back of the past 20 years but he didn't make it either. In fact only PJ got in from the modern era.

Jaysus only just realised Donnellan not on it.... complete joke! Definitely worthy of last 50. Also agree Sean Og was one of the finest half backs ever. Both of these lads have AI medals as well. Gives the list less credibility..

[cornafean]

No way does Paidi O'Se deserve to be as high as no. 26, ahead of the likes of Martin O'Connell and Maurice Fitzgerald. I also think Jimmy Keavney, Graham Geraghty and Eoin Liston are ranked too high.

[Hardy]

Any word from Frank McGuigan yet?

[INDIANA]

No way does Paidi O'Se deserve to be as high as no. 26, ahead of the likes of Martin O'Connell and Maurice Fitzgerald. I also think Jimmy Keavney, Graham Geraghty and Eoin Liston are ranked too high.

You obviously never saw Keaveney play. In my view he isn't high enough on the list- a class act and a complete natural. Also Geraghty -while being a complete tosser in my view is one of the best naturally gifted footballers I've ever seen. He was a star wing back and a star forward. And you're saying he's too high? You'd go a long way to find anyone as good.

Have you been watching any football recently ?

[cornafean]

You obviously never saw Keaveney play. In my view he isn't high enough on the list- a class act and a complete natural.

As it happens, I did see Keaveney play, several times in the flesh and also on TV. He was slower than Colin Corkery and was overrated because he was from Dublin. He did score 2-6 in the 1977 AIF but against a very, very weak Armagh defence. His career doesn't bear serious comparison with the best forwards of his era, eg, the likes of Matt Connor, Spillane or Sheehy.

Also Geraghty -while being a complete t**ser in my view is one of the best naturally gifted footballers I've ever seen. He was a star wing back and a star forward. And you're saying he's too high? You'd go a long way to find anyone as good.

As you say he was "a complete t**ser". He was talented alright but the question marks over his temperament mean I would not count him amongst the top 50 of all time. You are free to disagree.

[blanketattack]

Any word from Frank McGuigan yet?

He must be happy enough - I checked his ebay profile and he has no medals or plaques for sale at the moment.