Author Topic: The IRISH RUGBY thread  (Read 592928 times)

Dinny Breen

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7515 on: December 06, 2018, 01:53:43 PM »
This cannot be a surprise. The punishment these lads take, they have to be taking painkillers just to turn around and play the next week.
It is all about money . So is concussion

That is professional sport.
Maybe rugby shouldn't be professional, Dinny.
Being a gym bunny is one thing when the sport is based on avoiding people .
Rugby is all about attrition and bodies aren't designed for professional attrition.

At least being professional means being accountable, unlike the GAA they treat concussion and player burn-out seriously..
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Tony Baloney

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7516 on: December 06, 2018, 01:53:58 PM »
I wonder is it the same at high level inter county football/hurling in August/September when games are coming thick and fast?
You could probably measure intensity levels of rugby vs GAA over say 70 vs 80 mins and then recovery times.
The GAA season is definitely shorter at the highest level. What counts is the frequency of pharma use over the long term.

In fairness the IRFU have done a good job reducing the exposure of players to too many matches but the body recovery issue is still a problem.
The IRFU have, but the Premiership in England is an absolute grind. The big boys like Saracens etc. can rotate squads to a certain extent but I'd say some of the smaller teams have boys patched together going across the white line.

Dinny Breen

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7517 on: December 06, 2018, 01:57:04 PM »
Btw I say if you did a quick poll of the serious footballers such as AZ or BC1 I would be surprised if they've never taken pain killing pills or injection to play an important match..
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screenexile

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7518 on: December 06, 2018, 03:14:02 PM »
Yeah I've taken painkillers before a match not that often but definitely 2/3 times . . . I remember on one occasion thinking I wouldn't be fit for a match and the manager landed at my house before the game "The doc says they're strong but they'll sort you out"

I was 23 and had a badly bruised thumb. They didn't sort me out I couldn't catch the ball but the other times were just niggly injuries where I probably didn't need them but took them anyway as they were available.

seafoid

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7519 on: December 06, 2018, 03:37:43 PM »
I wonder is it the same at high level inter county football/hurling in August/September when games are coming thick and fast?
You could probably measure intensity levels of rugby vs GAA over say 70 vs 80 mins and then recovery times.
The GAA season is definitely shorter at the highest level. What counts is the frequency of pharma use over the long term.

In fairness the IRFU have done a good job reducing the exposure of players to too many matches but the body recovery issue is still a problem.
The IRFU have, but the Premiership in England is an absolute grind. The big boys like Saracens etc. can rotate squads to a certain extent but I'd say some of the smaller teams have boys patched together going across the white line.
France is just as bad
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seafoid

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7520 on: December 06, 2018, 03:38:57 PM »
This cannot be a surprise. The punishment these lads take, they have to be taking painkillers just to turn around and play the next week.
It is all about money . So is concussion

That is professional sport.
Maybe rugby shouldn't be professional, Dinny.
Being a gym bunny is one thing when the sport is based on avoiding people .
Rugby is all about attrition and bodies aren't designed for professional attrition.

At least being professional means being accountable, unlike the GAA they treat concussion and player burn-out seriously..
What sort of compensation fund have the IRFU got for concussion at this stage ?
Professional does not mean accountable. Shur look at American football. 
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Dinny Breen

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7521 on: December 06, 2018, 03:48:59 PM »
This cannot be a surprise. The punishment these lads take, they have to be taking painkillers just to turn around and play the next week.
It is all about money . So is concussion

That is professional sport.
Maybe rugby shouldn't be professional, Dinny.
Being a gym bunny is one thing when the sport is based on avoiding people .
Rugby is all about attrition and bodies aren't designed for professional attrition.

At least being professional means being accountable, unlike the GAA they treat concussion and player burn-out seriously..
What sort of compensation fund have the IRFU got for concussion at this stage ?
Professional does not mean accountable. Shur look at American football.

Why would they need compensation? Is there a litany of reports showing concussions causing premature death or health issues? Sensationalist!
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seafoid

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7522 on: December 06, 2018, 03:58:15 PM »
This cannot be a surprise. The punishment these lads take, they have to be taking painkillers just to turn around and play the next week.
It is all about money . So is concussion

That is professional sport.
Maybe rugby shouldn't be professional, Dinny.
Being a gym bunny is one thing when the sport is based on avoiding people .
Rugby is all about attrition and bodies aren't designed for professional attrition.

At least being professional means being accountable, unlike the GAA they treat concussion and player burn-out seriously..
What sort of compensation fund have the IRFU got for concussion at this stage ?
Professional does not mean accountable. Shur look at American football.

Why would they need compensation? Is there a litany of reports showing concussions causing premature death or health issues? Sensationalist!

All the great cover ups like fags, asbestos, Magdalen laundries, NFL concussion, US gym rape etc ended up costing a lot of money.
I can't remember the name but Connacht signed a decent Kiwi winding down his career a few years ago for full back iirc. He went into the Regional hosp for a checkup and the doctor told him to retire immediately. 
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oakleaflad

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7523 on: December 06, 2018, 04:12:02 PM »
This cannot be a surprise. The punishment these lads take, they have to be taking painkillers just to turn around and play the next week.
It is all about money . So is concussion

That is professional sport.
Maybe rugby shouldn't be professional, Dinny.
Being a gym bunny is one thing when the sport is based on avoiding people .
Rugby is all about attrition and bodies aren't designed for professional attrition.

At least being professional means being accountable, unlike the GAA they treat concussion and player burn-out seriously..
What sort of compensation fund have the IRFU got for concussion at this stage ?
Professional does not mean accountable. Shur look at American football.

Why would they need compensation? Is there a litany of reports showing concussions causing premature death or health issues? Sensationalist!

All the great cover ups like fags, asbestos, Magdalen laundries, NFL concussion, US gym rape etc ended up costing a lot of money.
I can't remember the name but Connacht signed a decent Kiwi winding down his career a few years ago for full back iirc. He went into the Regional hosp for a checkup and the doctor told him to retire immediately.
Anyone know who? Was thinking Mils Muliaina but he went on to play for Zebre and then in the USA after Connacht.

seafoid

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7524 on: December 06, 2018, 04:53:25 PM »
This cannot be a surprise. The punishment these lads take, they have to be taking painkillers just to turn around and play the next week.
It is all about money . So is concussion

That is professional sport.
Maybe rugby shouldn't be professional, Dinny.
Being a gym bunny is one thing when the sport is based on avoiding people .
Rugby is all about attrition and bodies aren't designed for professional attrition.

At least being professional means being accountable, unlike the GAA they treat concussion and player burn-out seriously..
What sort of compensation fund have the IRFU got for concussion at this stage ?
Professional does not mean accountable. Shur look at American football.

Why would they need compensation? Is there a litany of reports showing concussions causing premature death or health issues? Sensationalist!

All the great cover ups like fags, asbestos, Magdalen laundries, NFL concussion, US gym rape etc ended up costing a lot of money.
I can't remember the name but Connacht signed a decent Kiwi winding down his career a few years ago for full back iirc. He went into the Regional hosp for a checkup and the doctor told him to retire immediately.
Anyone know who? Was thinking Mils Muliaina but he went on to play for Zebre and then in the USA after Connacht.

Connacht secondrow Craig Clarke announces his retirement
Thirty-year-old New Zealander sustained 10 concussions in a 22-month period
 
Craig Clarke in action against Leinster during this season’s RaboDirect Pro 12 clash at the Showgrounds. Photograph: Inpho

Gavin Cummiskey


Wed, Jun 4, 2014, 01:00
First published:Wed, Jun 4, 2014, 01:00
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Craig Clarke’s retirement from rugby was confirmed yesterday by Connacht.
The 30-year-old New Zealander was stood down after the Saracens match in January and it was subsequently revealed he had sustained 10 concussions in 22 months.
Neither Connacht coach Pat Lam nor Clarke were available for interview yesterday. This meant no explanation was provided for how a player could sustain so many head traumas in such a short space of time and be allowed to continue playing.
It is also unclear how the problem only became apparent after Clarke signed a three -year deal with the province last year.
A highly respected leader, having captained the Chiefs to back-to-back Super rugby titles, Clarke’s main regret on leaving the game was he never became an All Black.
“While I will always be disappointed not to have worn the black jersey of my country, I will sleep easy knowing that I gave it a real crack, particularly in my last three seasons playing in New Zealand,” said Clarke via a Connacht press release
“Craig was obviously one of the biggest signings we’ve ever had at Connacht and it was huge for us to get someone of his experience,” said Lam, also via an email. “But he also had all the qualities of a Connacht team man and we are extremely disappointed for him that his time with the club has been cut short. . . .”
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oakleaflad

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7525 on: December 06, 2018, 04:57:01 PM »
This cannot be a surprise. The punishment these lads take, they have to be taking painkillers just to turn around and play the next week.
It is all about money . So is concussion

That is professional sport.
Maybe rugby shouldn't be professional, Dinny.
Being a gym bunny is one thing when the sport is based on avoiding people .
Rugby is all about attrition and bodies aren't designed for professional attrition.

At least being professional means being accountable, unlike the GAA they treat concussion and player burn-out seriously..
What sort of compensation fund have the IRFU got for concussion at this stage ?
Professional does not mean accountable. Shur look at American football.

Why would they need compensation? Is there a litany of reports showing concussions causing premature death or health issues? Sensationalist!

All the great cover ups like fags, asbestos, Magdalen laundries, NFL concussion, US gym rape etc ended up costing a lot of money.
I can't remember the name but Connacht signed a decent Kiwi winding down his career a few years ago for full back iirc. He went into the Regional hosp for a checkup and the doctor told him to retire immediately.
Anyone know who? Was thinking Mils Muliaina but he went on to play for Zebre and then in the USA after Connacht.

Connacht secondrow Craig Clarke announces his retirement
Thirty-year-old New Zealander sustained 10 concussions in a 22-month period
 
Craig Clarke in action against Leinster during this season’s RaboDirect Pro 12 clash at the Showgrounds. Photograph: Inpho

Gavin Cummiskey


Wed, Jun 4, 2014, 01:00
First published:Wed, Jun 4, 2014, 01:00
•   0
•   
•   
•   
•   More Sharing Services
Craig Clarke’s retirement from rugby was confirmed yesterday by Connacht.
The 30-year-old New Zealander was stood down after the Saracens match in January and it was subsequently revealed he had sustained 10 concussions in 22 months.
Neither Connacht coach Pat Lam nor Clarke were available for interview yesterday. This meant no explanation was provided for how a player could sustain so many head traumas in such a short space of time and be allowed to continue playing.
It is also unclear how the problem only became apparent after Clarke signed a three -year deal with the province last year.
A highly respected leader, having captained the Chiefs to back-to-back Super rugby titles, Clarke’s main regret on leaving the game was he never became an All Black.
“While I will always be disappointed not to have worn the black jersey of my country, I will sleep easy knowing that I gave it a real crack, particularly in my last three seasons playing in New Zealand,” said Clarke via a Connacht press release
“Craig was obviously one of the biggest signings we’ve ever had at Connacht and it was huge for us to get someone of his experience,” said Lam, also via an email. “But he also had all the qualities of a Connacht team man and we are extremely disappointed for him that his time with the club has been cut short. . . .”
Cheers! Jesus, 10 concussions in 22 months! He should have been stopped before then.

seafoid

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7526 on: December 06, 2018, 06:02:10 PM »
Neil Francis

"I could not comprehend how big the Toulon pack was when they won their first Heineken Cup in 2013 in Dublin. Bakkies Botha, Danie Roussow, Carl Haymen and Andrew Sheridan were in the sponsors' room standing around like Redwoods unaware of their sheer physical size while people gawped in slack-jawed amazement.
The biggest and most powerful mercenaries that money could buy. Power and size win cups evidently The human race is constantly evolving but international forwards are constantly coming in ahead of the average"

Kimmage on drugs and rubby

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/paul-kimmage-meets-laurent-benezech-the-whole-object-of-speaking-out-was-to-prevent-someone-dropping-dead-on-a-rugby-pitch-36537962.html

But obviously gaelic football is far worse
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GetOverTheBar

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7527 on: December 07, 2018, 09:04:40 AM »
Neil Francis

"I could not comprehend how big the Toulon pack was when they won their first Heineken Cup in 2013 in Dublin. Bakkies Botha, Danie Roussow, Carl Haymen and Andrew Sheridan were in the sponsors' room standing around like Redwoods unaware of their sheer physical size while people gawped in slack-jawed amazement.
The biggest and most powerful mercenaries that money could buy. Power and size win cups evidently The human race is constantly evolving but international forwards are constantly coming in ahead of the average"

Kimmage on drugs and rubby

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/paul-kimmage-meets-laurent-benezech-the-whole-object-of-speaking-out-was-to-prevent-someone-dropping-dead-on-a-rugby-pitch-36537962.html

But obviously gaelic football is far worse

Plus big Bastareaud who wasn't far off those guys even back then as a young(ish) centre.

AZOffaly

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7528 on: December 07, 2018, 09:40:17 AM »
Neil Francis

"I could not comprehend how big the Toulon pack was when they won their first Heineken Cup in 2013 in Dublin. Bakkies Botha, Danie Roussow, Carl Haymen and Andrew Sheridan were in the sponsors' room standing around like Redwoods unaware of their sheer physical size while people gawped in slack-jawed amazement.
The biggest and most powerful mercenaries that money could buy. Power and size win cups evidently The human race is constantly evolving but international forwards are constantly coming in ahead of the average"

Kimmage on drugs and rubby

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/paul-kimmage-meets-laurent-benezech-the-whole-object-of-speaking-out-was-to-prevent-someone-dropping-dead-on-a-rugby-pitch-36537962.html

But obviously gaelic football is far worse

To be fair, that's not what Dinny was saying. He's pointing out that Rugby have protocols on head injuries and concussions which are well known and followed fairly strictly. The GAA is trying to address it, but it's still very amateurish.

In terms of risk of concussion, of course Rugby has more opportunities. The game has changed to a more powerful collision sport, and the tackles this autumn from the like of Eoin Farrell are a bit worrying, but there are strict penalties for head hunting, and strict procedures for evaluating and replacing players with suspected head injuries.


seafoid

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7529 on: December 07, 2018, 10:27:38 AM »
Neil Francis

"I could not comprehend how big the Toulon pack was when they won their first Heineken Cup in 2013 in Dublin. Bakkies Botha, Danie Roussow, Carl Haymen and Andrew Sheridan were in the sponsors' room standing around like Redwoods unaware of their sheer physical size while people gawped in slack-jawed amazement.
The biggest and most powerful mercenaries that money could buy. Power and size win cups evidently The human race is constantly evolving but international forwards are constantly coming in ahead of the average"

Kimmage on drugs and rubby

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/paul-kimmage-meets-laurent-benezech-the-whole-object-of-speaking-out-was-to-prevent-someone-dropping-dead-on-a-rugby-pitch-36537962.html

But obviously gaelic football is far worse

To be fair, that's not what Dinny was saying. He's pointing out that Rugby have protocols on head injuries and concussions which are well known and followed fairly strictly. The GAA is trying to address it, but it's still very amateurish.

In terms of risk of concussion, of course Rugby has more opportunities. The game has changed to a more powerful collision sport, and the tackles this autumn from the like of Eoin Farrell are a bit worrying, but there are strict penalties for head hunting, and strict procedures for evaluating and replacing players with suspected head injuries.

We do not know how many concussions are grand before there is brain damage.
We do know that the heavier players are the heavier the collisions. Maybe players are more likely to get hurt when they are tired. Has anyone looked into it?

Rugby is about crashing into fellas when it isn’t about identifying space and running into
https://youtu.be/xIKq-WNXzEU
See 2:24

Comparing GAA to rugby for long term damage ignores the structural differences. Obviously the GAA needs to do more but it is not existential. It is for the IRFU
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 10:41:49 AM by seafoid »
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