The IRISH RUGBY thread

[passedit]

Heaslip had surgery on a lower back problem today . . . the cynic in me would think that maybe he was never going to be included for the match at the weekend.

But Joe would never tell us a lie!!

Did that happen when he 'rolled his ankle' in the warm up?

That's the worse "rolled ankle I've ever heard of!!"

Effin Leprechauns. Dangerous B******ds

[Walter Cronc]

Donnacha Ryan off to Racing next year on a 2 year deal. Strange one that he wasn't offered a central contract giving he's in excellent form.

Without getting into the Leinster/Munster debate how Heaslip was given a deal is beyond me, considering the number of backrowers we have coming through.

[AZOffaly]

Donnacha Ryan off to Racing next year on a 2 year deal. Strange one that he wasn't offered a central contract giving he's in excellent form.

Without getting into the Leinster/Munster debate how Heaslip was given a deal is beyond me, considering the number of backrowers we have coming through.

That's going to be hard to do in this case

[Walter Cronc]

Donnacha Ryan off to Racing next year on a 2 year deal. Strange one that he wasn't offered a central contract giving he's in excellent form.

Without getting into the Leinster/Munster debate how Heaslip was given a deal is beyond me, considering the number of backrowers we have coming through.

That's going to be hard to do in this case

I'm neutral. Dislike both

[Owen Brannigan]

Both should not be included in central contracts given their ages and the need to have a fully developed team for the World Cup in Japan in 2019.  At best both could be part players rather than first choice at the age of 36 in an increasing physical and fast paced game.  The usual Leinster bias is occurring with Heaslip being contracted.

[magpie seanie]

Both should not be included in central contracts given their ages and the need to have a fully developed team for the World Cup in Japan in 2019.  At best both could be part players rather than first choice at the age of 36 in an increasing physical and fast paced game.  The usual Leinster bias is occurring with Heaslip being contracted.

There's an awful lot of old players who are currently regulars in our side. They'll be gone or their performance levels greatly diminished yet St Joe seems completely averse to introducing young players.

[Dinny Breen]

Both should not be included in central contracts given their ages and the need to have a fully developed team for the World Cup in Japan in 2019.  At best both could be part players rather than first choice at the age of 36 in an increasing physical and fast paced game.  The usual Leinster bias is occurring with Heaslip being contracted.

There's an awful lot of old players who are currently regulars in our side. They'll be gone or their performance levels greatly diminished yet St Joe seems completely averse to introducing young players.

Christ on a bike - McGrath Furlong VDF Scannell Dillane Henderson Leavy Conan Carberry Ringrose Henshaw Marmion Other Scannell would all politely disagree.

Adam Byrne was given his Leinster debut as an 18 year old by JS he will be capped in the summer as will Darren Sweetman and Rory O'Loughlin.

Also there is no comparison between Ryan and Heaslip, just compare injury records and the fact Heaslip has been one of Ireland's top performers for the last 10 years. Ryan had a great 6 nations but doesn't mean he deserves a central contract.

[seafoid]

Both should not be included in central contracts given their ages and the need to have a fully developed team for the World Cup in Japan in 2019.  At best both could be part players rather than first choice at the age of 36 in an increasing physical and fast paced game.  The usual Leinster bias is occurring with Heaslip being contracted.

There's an awful lot of old players who are currently regulars in our side. They'll be gone or their performance levels greatly diminished yet St Joe seems completely averse to introducing young players.

St Alex of Wrigley and Blessed Cody of Stripey also had the same problem.

[AZOffaly]

Both should not be included in central contracts given their ages and the need to have a fully developed team for the World Cup in Japan in 2019.  At best both could be part players rather than first choice at the age of 36 in an increasing physical and fast paced game.  The usual Leinster bias is occurring with Heaslip being contracted.

There's an awful lot of old players who are currently regulars in our side. They'll be gone or their performance levels greatly diminished yet St Joe seems completely averse to introducing young players.

Christ on a bike - McGrath Furlong VDF Scannell Dillane Henderson Leavy Conan Carberry Ringrose Henshaw Marmion Other Scannell would all politely disagree.

Adam Byrne was given his Leinster debut as an 18 year old by JS he will be capped in the summer as will Darren Sweetman and Rory O'Loughlin.

Also there is no comparison between Ryan and Heaslip, just compare injury records and the fact Heaslip has been one of Ireland's top performers for the last 10 years. Ryan had a great 6 nations but doesn't mean he deserves a central contract.

Donnacha Ryan is the sort of character you need in the second row though. He's abrasive and is a very strong character. If Paul O'Connell wasn't around, Ryan would have played a lot more for Ireland, and indeed Munster. Who are the other second rows? Ultan Dillane seems like a promising prospect, but he's not at that level of aggression. Henderson and Toner will probably be the first choice second row, and Henderson has the tools, but Toner is not that sort of player.

Nothing against Heaslip, but if you are trying to see where you are more replete with options, you'd imagine the back row has more scope than the second row.

That said, at their age, you'd have to question either getting a central contract. Neither are 'special' players.

[magpie seanie]

Both should not be included in central contracts given their ages and the need to have a fully developed team for the World Cup in Japan in 2019.  At best both could be part players rather than first choice at the age of 36 in an increasing physical and fast paced game.  The usual Leinster bias is occurring with Heaslip being contracted.

There's an awful lot of old players who are currently regulars in our side. They'll be gone or their performance levels greatly diminished yet St Joe seems completely averse to introducing young players.

Christ on a bike - McGrath Furlong VDF Scannell Dillane Henderson Leavy Conan Carberry Ringrose Henshaw Marmion Other Scannell would all politely disagree.

Adam Byrne was given his Leinster debut as an 18 year old by JS he will be capped in the summer as will Darren Sweetman and Rory O'Loughlin.

Also there is no comparison between Ryan and Heaslip, just compare injury records and the fact Heaslip has been one of Ireland's top performers for the last 10 years. Ryan had a great 6 nations but doesn't mean he deserves a central contract.

With respect look at the game time several of those guys got in comparison to Best, Toner, SOB, Heaslip, Sexton and Kearney - all first choice starters who must have major question marks over where they'll be for WC 2019. Tommy Bowe would have played a lot if he was fit and he comes into that category.

[Dinny Breen]

Both should not be included in central contracts given their ages and the need to have a fully developed team for the World Cup in Japan in 2019.  At best both could be part players rather than first choice at the age of 36 in an increasing physical and fast paced game.  The usual Leinster bias is occurring with Heaslip being contracted.

There's an awful lot of old players who are currently regulars in our side. They'll be gone or their performance levels greatly diminished yet St Joe seems completely averse to introducing young players.

Christ on a bike - McGrath Furlong VDF Scannell Dillane Henderson Leavy Conan Carberry Ringrose Henshaw Marmion Other Scannell would all politely disagree.

Adam Byrne was given his Leinster debut as an 18 year old by JS he will be capped in the summer as will Darren Sweetman and Rory O'Loughlin.

Also there is no comparison between Ryan and Heaslip, just compare injury records and the fact Heaslip has been one of Ireland's top performers for the last 10 years. Ryan had a great 6 nations but doesn't mean he deserves a central contract.

Donnacha Ryan is the sort of character you need in the second row though. He's abrasive and is a very strong character. If Paul O'Connell wasn't around, Ryan would have played a lot more for Ireland, and indeed Munster. Who are the other second rows? Ultan Dillane seems like a promising prospect, but he's not at that level of aggression. Henderson and Toner will probably be the first choice second row, and Henderson has the tools, but Toner is not that sort of player.

Nothing against Heaslip, but if you are trying to see where you are more replete with options, you'd imagine the back row has more scope than the second row.

That said, at their age, you'd have to question either getting a central contract. Neither are 'special' players.

The 3 best 8s in Ireland are Heaslip, Stander and Conan in that order. Conan isn't at that level yet so if we didn't centralise Heaslip we run the risk of him going to France/England, a situation the IRFU do not want, exact same as Sexton going to France. Bad PR and does not sit well in the IRFU home based players selection policy. Heaslip is also simply a fine rugby player, 100 caps and 270+ appearances for Leinster, in comparison Ryan has only a combined 207 Munster and Ireland appearances. So lots of factors to look at in awarding central contracts, age is one, injury history, form, strength in depth for the position, player brand value etc Heaslip ticks a lot of those boxes, Ryan doesn't. Henderson and Dillane are younger better players, Toner is younger and a better line-out operator. I like Ryan but his injury history and the fact that he was never a top class international goes against him.

Don't forget Munster have a budget too and they wouldn't meet his demands either. To me awarding awarding Heaslip and not Ryan is a no brainer.

[Dinny Breen]

Both should not be included in central contracts given their ages and the need to have a fully developed team for the World Cup in Japan in 2019.  At best both could be part players rather than first choice at the age of 36 in an increasing physical and fast paced game.  The usual Leinster bias is occurring with Heaslip being contracted.

There's an awful lot of old players who are currently regulars in our side. They'll be gone or their performance levels greatly diminished yet St Joe seems completely averse to introducing young players.

Christ on a bike - McGrath Furlong VDF Scannell Dillane Henderson Leavy Conan Carberry Ringrose Henshaw Marmion Other Scannell would all politely disagree.

Adam Byrne was given his Leinster debut as an 18 year old by JS he will be capped in the summer as will Darren Sweetman and Rory O'Loughlin.

Also there is no comparison between Ryan and Heaslip, just compare injury records and the fact Heaslip has been one of Ireland's top performers for the last 10 years. Ryan had a great 6 nations but doesn't mean he deserves a central contract.

With respect look at the game time several of those guys got in comparison to Best, Toner, SOB, Heaslip, Sexton and Kearney - all first choice starters who must have major question marks over where they'll be for WC 2019. Tommy Bowe would have played a lot if he was fit and he comes into that category.

Who would you pick ahead of Best, who in my opinion is a proven leader and an exceptional rugby player? Heaslip is a machine, one of first names on the team sheet. Toner, name me a better line-out operator in Ireland? Sexton is one of our few world class players but Jackson has got a lot of game time. Kearney had a good 6 nations but yea don't rate and would put a black mark against JS over that continued selection. SOB must would have brought back into the team, prior to this years 6 nations operating at a different level.

A lot the Leinster faces people don't like but apart from Kearney they are all worth their place.

[AZOffaly]

I suppose I just don't like Heaslip that much. He always seems to me to be a great downhill player.

[Dinny Breen]

I suppose I just don't like Heaslip that much. He always seems to me to be a great downhill player.

At least your honest. In moneyball terms he doesn't have a good face and his body language stinks of arrogance. Proper Leinster.

[AZOffaly]

I suppose I just don't like Heaslip that much. He always seems to me to be a great downhill player.

At least your honest. In moneyball terms he doesn't have a good face and his body language stinks of arrogance. Proper Leinster.

Ha! Arrogance is alright, but you can't be the fairweather man either. Heaslip could have played number 8 on the bad old Leinster teams. He is Victor Costello