Author Topic: The IRISH RUGBY thread  (Read 727146 times)

Solo_run

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #8655 on: October 20, 2019, 10:10:24 PM »
Looking ahead to the next 4 year cycle Ireland and their new coaches will need to develop Carberry into a world class #10 which I am sure he has the ability to be with sexton hitting 38 in 2023 he probably won't be much more than a bit part player if even. We also need a new #9 whether thats gonna be McGrath who is definatley able to lead the new team or someone coming from the u20 squads of previous years.

Carberry not good enough, there has to be a better player to go with.
I'm sure NZ weren't too sure about Barrett as a world class 10 as he was always in and out of the team in his first few years depending on other players forms and carter still bossing it. Its amazing what a run of games could do for a player. Remember that sexton had a rough enough start to his Ireland career as the people still thought that O'Gara was the man but look how Johnny changed the team for the better once he got a continued run of games

I would hope over the next 4 years the provinces develop 3/4 fly half's that are capable.

whitegoodman

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #8656 on: October 20, 2019, 10:29:59 PM »
There is one over in London that would suffice

fearsiuil

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #8657 on: October 20, 2019, 11:03:25 PM »
We'll always have Chicargo.

Milltown Row2

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #8658 on: October 20, 2019, 11:40:02 PM »
There is one over in London that would suffice

Yep and a moment of professionalism would have secured his place, but getting involved in situations has cost him dearly
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

screenexile

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #8659 on: October 21, 2019, 12:13:18 AM »
Kimmage getting his claws stuck into Heaslip... will be interesting how that ends up!!!

seafoid

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #8660 on: October 21, 2019, 07:51:01 AM »
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-world-cup/2019/10/20/ireland-rugby-world-cup-post-mortem-does-andy-farrell-go/

Ireland Rugby World Cup post-mortem: where does Andy Farrell go from here?

 Tom Cary, in tokyo
20 OCTOBER 2019 • 12:41PM


"There was no fairytale ending for Joe Schmidt following Ireland's loss to New Zealand on Saturday, it was as close to sporting horror as you can get.

For all the Six Nations titles, the series win in Australia, those two historic victories over the All Blacks, Schmidt’s teams did no better than any other Ireland team when it came to the World Cup. That is now seven quarter-final defeats out of seven for the men in green. An unwanted 100 per cent record.

Where does Andy Farrell go from here, then, to ensure his Ireland side can progress further than the last eight when the tournament arrives once again in 2023? Tom Cary offers four solutions.

1. Out with the deadwood

Farrell has some big calls to make player-wise with some of his biggest names nearing the end of the road. So much was made of Schmidt’s decision to stick with his tried-and-trusted players for the New Zealand game. The ones who had served him so well in breaking the All Blacks hoodoo and winning all those Six Nations titles. But it was painful to watch them on Saturday; toothless, one-dimensional, powerless to do anything when the All Blacks started at 100mph.

Rory Best has retired so that decision at least has been made for Farrell. And to be honest, the only reason the 37 year-old was still playing was because there were no real alternatives. Niall Scannell and Sean Cronin have had their chances but neither has made a compelling case. Maybe this is a chance to promote an exciting young talent such as Leinster’s 21 year-old hooker Ronan Kelleher?

As for the rest of the old guard - Rob Kearney, Conor Murray, Johnny Sexton, Peter O’Mahony, Cian Healy, Keith Earls - will Farrell swing the axe in a bid to make a fresh start? It would be a huge statement. The biggest decision, of course, surrounds Sexton. The 34 year-old, who still has two years left on his central contract, said on the eve of the All Blacks game that he felt he still had a few more years left in him. “After the World Cup you guys [the media] will probably turn on us, start calling for our heads and saying we’re too old. Saying the next batch have to come through. I can see it already. But, I’ve no doubt we’ve got a few years left.”

There is no doubt he remains Ireland’s best fly-half. But will he start in 2023? No. So is it time to build a new team around someone else? Big decision.


2. Evolve Ireland’s game

The difference between New Zealand and Ireland in November 2018 and New Zealand and Ireland in October 2019 was startling. After losing in Dublin, Steve Hansen was bold enough to rip it up and start again. When Damian McKenzie got injured, he moved Barrett, the best fly-half in the world, to 15 and put Richie Mo'unga at 10. New Zealand became more rather than less adventurous.

Ireland, by contrast, stuck rigidly to their gameplan. Of course, no one expects them to play like New Zealand. They have neither the players nor the skills to do so. But they could show a little more ambition. New Zealand offloaded 14 times and made 18 clean line breaks on Saturday night. Ireland offloaded three times and made two clean breaks. Schmidt’s conservatism was a problem. Once they were behind they had no way of chasing the game. As Earls said: “It's hard enough playing against them with our A game, never mind our D game."

Farrell has never been a head coach so it remains to be seen what his philosophy will be. He is bringing in former England star Mike Catt and Leinster scrum coach John Fogarty to assist him - neither appointment appears to have inspired much confidence in fans - while Simon Easterby is contracted until next summer. Will the new coaching ticket look to move Ireland’s game on or will they stick with Schmidt’s gameplan?


3. Pick on form not experience

“A World Cup is a lot about form,” said Ireland’s scrum coach Simon Easterby before the pool game against Samoa. “Very quickly it starts and very quickly it can be over. We have to look at it and balance selection experience but also form at the time.”

In light of this truth bomb, you couldn’t help but feel a bit sorry for Andrew Conway, Jordan Larmour and Rhys Ruddock on Saturday. Conway, who scored three pool stage tries, was probably Ireland’s form winger at the World Cup. Yet he did not even make the 23 on Saturday as Schmidt stayed true to his ‘bankers’ Keith Earls and Jacob Stockdale, neither of whom had scored a try all tournament. The gamble backfired.

Ruddock, likewise, lost out to Peter O’Mahony, who at 30 years of age, looks knackered. As for Larmour, one of Ireland’s truly exciting young talents, he just never seemed to be trusted by Schmidt. Similarly Craig Gilroy and Simon Zebo. Too risky. Compare and contrast with New Zealand - who dropped Owen Franks, Ben Smith and Rieko Ioane (213 caps between them) after the defeat by Australia in August, bringing in Nepo Laulala, Sevu Reece and George Bridge. It was utterly ruthless. And it paid off spectacularly.


4. Change the culture

Farrell could do worse than try to cultivate a more positive, open environment. Schmidt was the greatest coach Ireland have ever had. No question. But boy was he intense. His obsession with the minutiae, his desire to control every aspect of the operation, was full on.

When things were going well, players and coaches bought into it. When the weren’t, there is no doubt his overbearing style wore down his players, as well as making relations with the Fourth Estate that bit more tense, which had a knock-on effect on the squad. There are already signs Farrell is keen to start afresh on this front, making a good impression on the occasions he was put up for the media in Japan.

But he did not appear in the wake of the defeat, nor did he speak the following day. It might have been wise to get out ahead of the story after such a catastrophic game. To all intents and purposes he is now the boss. It is his reputation which is now on the line."

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Jim_Murphy_74

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #8661 on: October 21, 2019, 10:15:57 AM »
Looking ahead to the next 4 year cycle Ireland and their new coaches will need to develop Carberry into a world class #10 which I am sure he has the ability to be with sexton hitting 38 in 2023 he probably won't be much more than a bit part player if even. We also need a new #9 whether thats gonna be McGrath who is definatley able to lead the new team or someone coming from the u20 squads of previous years.

Carberry not good enough, there has to be a better player to go with.


He seems the best bet at the moment.  For scrumhalf I would nearly put Cooney and Marmion ahead of Murray, let alone McGrath.  Of course neither even saw the plane to Japan.

I hear a lot of criticism of Best and his age.  Really though, did Scannell or Cronin put any kind of pressure on him?

Still think Henderson and Ryan have plenty to offer.

I would say that Beirne, Conway, Ruddock and Larmer all showed enough in pool stages to be starters yesterday.  Probably wouldn't have made a difference. 

Other than Connacht, I haven't seen our provinces play hugely imaginative rugby.  In fact Leinster have gone from having a bit of flair to quite a forward-driven game.   A bit like Ireland they came unstuck when they met a team that met them on that.   Munster or Ulster haven't exactly set the world alight.

Also I wonder would people tolerate a poor Six Nations campaign again after last year?  Hard to take that on the grounds of winning a match 4 years away? 

We could rock up the next World Cup playing expansive rugby to get bet up by a bunch of grunts playing a narrow, forwards driven game............

To be honest we might not ever again see a run like the first 5 years of Joe's reign.

/Jim.

johnnycool

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #8662 on: October 21, 2019, 11:13:20 AM »
I think it’s a process.
Things they did well :
-playing and beating Southern Hemisphere beforehand (unimaginable 10-15 years ago )
- squad management in the pool stage

What didn’t work
- Team didn’t peak for the tournament
- Lack of flexibility against Japan

I think they’ll learn a lot from this and you never know, they might get a handy quarterfinal next time

Farrell will need time to fill the key roles in the team with lads who'll still be at their peak in 4 years time and that may mean a few poor 6N campaigns in the interim.

Sexton, Murray, Kearney and the likes are passed their best and should only play peripheral roles in the next few squads, if at all to allow younger blood to bed in for 2023.

Carbery has been poor but I wouldn't be discarding him just yet.

Is it too late to get some of these lads to try and offload in the tackle as Ireland are predictable as fúck with their pick and go through 10 to 20 phases.
That'll work against the Scots or Italians but not the top teams.

Dinny Breen

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #8663 on: October 21, 2019, 11:45:26 AM »
Looking ahead to the next 4 year cycle Ireland and their new coaches will need to develop Carberry into a world class #10 which I am sure he has the ability to be with sexton hitting 38 in 2023 he probably won't be much more than a bit part player if even. We also need a new #9 whether thats gonna be McGrath who is definatley able to lead the new team or someone coming from the u20 squads of previous years.

Carberry not good enough, there has to be a better player to go with.


He seems the best bet at the moment.  For scrumhalf I would nearly put Cooney and Marmion ahead of Murray, let alone McGrath.  Of course neither even saw the plane to Japan.

I hear a lot of criticism of Best and his age.  Really though, did Scannell or Cronin put any kind of pressure on him?

Still think Henderson and Ryan have plenty to offer.

I would say that Beirne, Conway, Ruddock and Larmer all showed enough in pool stages to be starters yesterday.  Probably wouldn't have made a difference. 

Other than Connacht, I haven't seen our provinces play hugely imaginative rugby.  In fact Leinster have gone from having a bit of flair to quite a forward-driven game.   A bit like Ireland they came unstuck when they met a team that met them on that.   Munster or Ulster haven't exactly set the world alight.

Also I wonder would people tolerate a poor Six Nations campaign again after last year?  Hard to take that on the grounds of winning a match 4 years away? 

We could rock up the next World Cup playing expansive rugby to get bet up by a bunch of grunts playing a narrow, forwards driven game............

To be honest we might not ever again see a run like the first 5 years of Joe's reign.

/Jim.

Leinster's style is evolving, expect more off-loading and expanse this season. 
#newbridgeornowhere

screenexile

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #8664 on: October 21, 2019, 11:54:03 AM »
We need to start over again as we have done for the previous 7 world cups. Yes Schmidt brought the team great success but twice failed in the ultimate test and there were many many reasons for it. but chiefly for me were the fact the game plan didn't evolve or there wasn't another game plan and also too much loyalty to "experienced" players.

As Hansen said Ireland's experience was of not winning. It started at the beginning of the year in the 6N and the malaise continued to the England drubbing and the Japan defeat. While 2018 was great it was a year too early and Schmidt kept picking the same lads all year when they weren't delivering.

I'd be happy enough to sacrifice the next 3 6 Nations and just gearing everything towards 2023. We'll see I suppose.

Jim_Murphy_74

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #8665 on: October 21, 2019, 12:09:26 PM »
Leinster's style is evolving, expect more off-loading and expanse this season.

Hopefully, would be good to see it across the provinces.  Especially if we have a desire to adapt that for the national game.

I remember reading an article on how the New Zealand manager works with NZ based Super Rugby franchises to have a consistency of approach to tactics and style.

/Jim.

screenexile

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #8666 on: October 21, 2019, 01:51:45 PM »
Leinster's style is evolving, expect more off-loading and expanse this season.

Hopefully, would be good to see it across the provinces.  Especially if we have a desire to adapt that for the national game.

I remember reading an article on how the New Zealand manager works with NZ based Super Rugby franchises to have a consistency of approach to tactics and style.

/Jim.

Ireland supposedly have that approach as well!!!

seafoid

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #8667 on: October 21, 2019, 02:29:22 PM »
It's a total system failure. The question is whether or not they learn anything from it. 
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Gmac

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #8668 on: October 21, 2019, 08:03:04 PM »
Was at both Tokyo semis and the size and speed of kiwis and especially sa is unbelievable, Ireland can’t seem to peak for World Cups like the other teams do , I don’t think the next few years will be good  we are way behind wales on current form .

bennydorano

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #8669 on: October 21, 2019, 08:33:57 PM »
Kimmage getting his claws stuck into Heaslip... will be interesting how that ends up!!!
The story being no one knows what the story is. Heaslip has questions to answer but at the same time it's annoying to see the Twitter gobshites revel in it with assumptions of guilt (again?). Kimmage's second go at Heaslip?