Author Topic: The IRISH RUGBY thread  (Read 643449 times)

Milltown Row2

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7725 on: February 10, 2019, 05:34:13 PM »
England motoring.

Yeah makes me feel better about last week... England are a serious outfit that seem to be peaking!

Peaking too early, I hope. Teams will catch on to their kicking game soon enough
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

seafoid

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7726 on: February 11, 2019, 08:34:23 AM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/liam-toland-scottish-errors-may-not-save-us-at-the-world-cup-1.3788690


Liam Toland: Scottish errors may not save us at the World Cup
Errors by the hosts not limited to time with ball in hand, but also out of possession

Liam Toland

   
 
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Peter OíMahony was man-of-the-match in a crucial game low on skill but high, very high, on mentality. Had Ireland lost this game it would have been a mighty blow below the World Cup water line.
Ireland should never have come close to losing this game when factoring in how awful Scotland were at times, so error-prone that I wondered aloud were their players all working nights last week. Ireland did not lose, and will take major positives. What a defeat could have done to the Irish mentally would have been unthinkable.
Round one in Dublin was all about blueprints. It was about Englandís methodology in negating so much of Joe Schmidtís technical prowess around the box kick, outplaying and shutting down the Irish wide game. Scotland were always going to be an entirely different proposition. The English blueprint would be impossible to create. So what happened?
Scotland have so much talent who can play at times a brand of rugby that I really want to watch. I found myself at times shouting support in a vain attempt to get them to make that last crucial pass or select the right play. Not because I wanted them to win, but because itís so infuriating to watch their error count building in the knowledge that the Irish players and management would also spot the errors and react accordingly.
To be fair to both sides, the conditions were difficult. That said, you have to ask yourself if the home team adapted to the conditions, which were well flagged, as well as the the visiting team. Ireland reacted, with players like Jacob Stockdale using all his physique and pace off Johnny Sexton in exposing an ill-disciplined Scottish side.
Pushed passes
When I say ill-disciplined Iím thinking of Scotland shutting off at crucial times Ė dropped balls, pushed passes, forward passes and a defence that wasnít concentrating and executing when necessary. The Scottish errors werenít limited to their time with the ball in hand, but equally when they didnít have possession.
!
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Blue Billywig Video PlayerConor Murray kicked as he has done so many times before, but often went a wee bit longer, with the scrumhalf opting to keep the ball in play. This may have been a nod to the Scottish lineout or simply a tactical ploy to invite a Scottish counter and the inevitable error. Either way Murray was backing his defence. The Irish lineout, with so many changes, performed 100 per cent. The scrum Iíll address below.
As Scotland drifted into an error-strewn phase Ireland cleverly switched tempo and tactics Ė lineout, mauls etc...An added bonus to this process would be big ball carriers. Irish forwards carry but unfortunately for very limited yardage. Chris Farrell has already shown this season he is able to dismantle sides Ė witness his man-of-the-match performance against a poor Edinburgh in Cork. For Ireland it was a powerful performing Rob Kearney and Stockdale who racked up the metres gained Ė thereís no issue there but with Farrell being so big and athletic given the right opportunity heíll create huge value for those around him.
Scrums
Areas of concern? The closing scrum, the defensive decision-making in the wider channels and the inability to carry the ball away from the deep trenches.
On Friday I noted the opportunities that went a begging in the Aviva when Englandís scrum was vulnerable. The last three scrums in Edinburgh provided a further window into that world.
The third scrum was a major struggle, but the second of those closing three set-pieces on 77 minutes resulted in a penalty for Scotland. The fixture was dead at this point, so no harm done, but imagine we have that same scrum against South Africa in the closing minutes of a World Cup quarter-final. Would a similar outcome cost Ireland an historic semi-final? Tendai Mtawarira, the ďBeastĒ, will be one who will maximise this potential.

At the heart of this is time played. Tadhg Furlong is our world-class tighthead, with Andrew Porter behind him. But how much pitch time is Porter actually getting? Ten minutes here and there?
Even with Leinster he is not getting the minutes in the one position where training is less effectual. Game-time must provide the only real learning environment. Porter is Schmidtís number two tighthead and must get more, much more, game-time in preparation for facing the ďBeastĒ.

Defensive reading

For obvious individual and unit rustiness reasons, the defensive reading from Irelandís 13, 14 and 15 (and 11) is not quite on the money. For example, just before half time Kearney made a read and hit on the Scottish wide play on the 23rd phase. Huw Jones was 8m from the Irish touchline and 10m from the Irish try line. Stockdale was bursting a gut to get to Jones when Kearney stepped in to smash the Scottish centre.
The problem was that Tommy Seymour was free in the tram tracks. A quality pass and Seymour scores. Jonesís pass forced Seymour to check and the try was gone, with Stockdale slipping past Kearney to pull him down. Decisions such as these are costly when teams like Argentina are flying high and accurate. World Cup semi-final teams, that is.

A good metal win for Ireland, but I wonder what the conditions will be like on Sunday, September 22nd, in Yokohama City when we meet Scotland? Scottish errors may not save us then!
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thewobbler

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7727 on: February 11, 2019, 09:17:10 AM »
After a couple of years of gradually losing interest, Iím now all but given up on rugby.

I fell for the game big time 20 years ago. Loved the constant strategic challenge of territory or possession. I loved the fact that the perfect formation seemed to consist of small fat man, tall ungainly men, a handful of testosterone-fuelled athletic freaks, and a couple of less-brave sorts out wide. The respect for referees was astonishing. That men could batter lumps out of each other for an hour and a half, then walk off arm-in-arm, did the heart good. And of course the 4 green fields all on show together at international level.

But if truth be told, it bores me senseless now. It is rugby league of 20 years ago, except with aimless box kicks thrown in at random intervals. Itís no longer a game of skill or incision. Itís just a series of over-sized, drug-fuelled robots playing a game of patience, waiting for a mistake to happen on the other side, while ensuring you make none yourself.

As a game I cannot see how it can fix itself either. Theyíll just keep getting bigger and stronger, and everyone will continue to pretend that itís entirely normal for Celtic nations to produce eons of  6í 4Ē, 18 stone, finely tuned athletes.

I do fear that within 20 years, there will be a trend of pro rugby players dying in their early fifties from massive heart failure and brain haemorrhages. Itís awful that we will have to wait for this to happen before the game can go back to being fun.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 12:54:59 PM by thewobbler »

Applesisapples

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7728 on: February 11, 2019, 09:29:13 AM »
As a non rugby rugby fan, is the success of the club game in Ireland now catching up with the national team?

Insane Bolt

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7729 on: February 11, 2019, 09:39:21 AM »
Rugby has evolved, and it's mainly the northern hemisphere teams trying to catch up with the southern hemisphere teams. They have closed the gap considerably, but I think that Irish teams have always been too conservative in their play. Wales, Scotland always seem to have a few tricks up their sleeve....quick line outs, tap penalties etc.....Ireland....box kick😩. For me Murray is too ponderous....move the effing ball quick....Ireland have great backs. Maybe all this is part of Joe's cunning plan.....but I would rather lose playing an expansive game than win 9-6 on kicks.

johnnycool

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7730 on: February 11, 2019, 10:26:34 AM »
Rugby has evolved, and it's mainly the northern hemisphere teams trying to catch up with the southern hemisphere teams. They have closed the gap considerably, but I think that Irish teams have always been too conservative in their play. Wales, Scotland always seem to have a few tricks up their sleeve....quick line outs, tap penalties etc.....Ireland....box kick😩. For me Murray is too ponderous....move the effing ball quick....Ireland have great backs. Maybe all this is part of Joe's cunning plan.....but I would rather lose playing an expansive game than win 9-6 on kicks.

A big good 'un is always better than a small good 'un...

Rugby when played well is a fine sport (so is gaelic football) but when you've a hoard of a backroom team with stats coming out their arses players are more or less playing to a set pattern with the off the cuff stuff few and far between.

I think Ireland are over coached but I do think we don't have the real flair players who can play with their heads up and make decisions and execute in the heat of action. Sexton is a good enough outhalf and is a brave soul but he's not going to engineer something out of nothing and at the same time Schmitt seems to be that type of manager not to allow it anyway. Murray has lost his zip and now you don't go into a blind panic when he is replaced.

Ireland are punching above their weight at the minute but sadly still a bit off claiming a World Cup. Hope I'm wrong though.
 
Anyone else think that England have blocking the kick chasers down to a fine art?

France are a shambles of a team but some fine individual talent there.



oakleaflad

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7731 on: February 11, 2019, 10:40:06 AM »
Rugby has evolved, and it's mainly the northern hemisphere teams trying to catch up with the southern hemisphere teams. They have closed the gap considerably, but I think that Irish teams have always been too conservative in their play. Wales, Scotland always seem to have a few tricks up their sleeve....quick line outs, tap penalties etc.....Ireland....box kick😩. For me Murray is too ponderous....move the effing ball quick....Ireland have great backs. Maybe all this is part of Joe's cunning plan.....but I would rather lose playing an expansive game than win 9-6 on kicks.

A big good 'un is always better than a small good 'un...

Rugby when played well is a fine sport (so is gaelic football) but when you've a hoard of a backroom team with stats coming out their arses players are more or less playing to a set pattern with the off the cuff stuff few and far between.

I think Ireland are over coached but I do think we don't have the real flair players who can play with their heads up and make decisions and execute in the heat of action. Sexton is a good enough outhalf and is a brave soul but he's not going to engineer something out of nothing and at the same time Schmitt seems to be that type of manager not to allow it anyway. Murray has lost his zip and now you don't go into a blind panic when he is replaced.

Ireland are punching above their weight at the minute but sadly still a bit off claiming a World Cup. Hope I'm wrong though.
 
Anyone else think that England have blocking the kick chasers down to a fine art?

France are a shambles of a team but some fine individual talent there.
Really noticed this against France. As soon as they knew the box kick was coming men were filtering back to get in the way and stop there being any sort of a decent kick chase.

Insane Bolt

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7732 on: February 11, 2019, 10:51:08 AM »
I've always admired the Welsh because they play an open expansive game no matter what team lines out. England are back on track....they have a seriously strong squad, and have sidelined Hartley, Cole and Brown quietly. Still think their discipline will be their downfall....in particular Itoje and Farrell.....although captaincy seems to have settled him. Ireland have either SA or All Blacks to look forward to in Japan.....hope they can get back to where they were last season.
If there was a transfer market I would break the bank for Barrett and McKenzie.

GetOverTheBar

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7733 on: February 11, 2019, 12:31:20 PM »
I've always admired the Welsh because they play an open expansive game no matter what team lines out. England are back on track....they have a seriously strong squad, and have sidelined Hartley, Cole and Brown quietly. Still think their discipline will be their downfall....in particular Itoje and Farrell.....although captaincy seems to have settled him. Ireland have either SA or All Blacks to look forward to in Japan.....hope they can get back to where they were last season.
If there was a transfer market I would break the bank for Barrett and McKenzie.

Send Aki back. Swap deal? ;D

seafoid

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7734 on: February 11, 2019, 12:51:40 PM »
After a couple of years of gradually losing interest, Iím now all but given up on rugby.

I fell for the game big time 20 years ago. Loved the constant strategic challenge of territory or possession. I loved the fact that the perfect formation seemed to consist of small fat man, tall ungainly men, a handful of testosterone-fuelled athletic freaks, and a couple of less-brave sorts out wide. The respect for referees was astonishing. That men could batter lumps out of each other for an hour and a half, then walk off arm-in-arm, did the heart good. And of course the 4 green fields all on show together at international level.

But if truth be told, it bores me senseless now. It is rugby league of 2 years ago, except with aimless box kicks thrown in at random intervals. Itís no longer a game of skill or incision. Itís just a series of over-sized, drug-fuelled robots playing a game of patience, waiting for a mistake to happen on the other side, while ensuring you make none yourself.

As a game I cannot see how it can fix itself either. Theyíll just keep getting bigger and stronger, and everyone will continue to pretend that itís entirely normal for Celtic nations to produce sons of  6í 4Ē, 18 stone, finely tuned athletes.

I do fear that within 20 years, there will be a trend of pro rugby players dying in their early fifties from massive heart failure and brain haemorrhages. Itís awful that we will have to wait for this to happen before the game can go back to being run.

Great post, Wobbler

Professionalism has changed the game for the worse.
English Injury stats are brutal

https://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Document/General/General/01/32/91/95/InjurySurveillanceReport2016-17_English.pdf

"The average severity of match injuries (the time taken to return to play) for the 2016-17 season was
32 days. This is the first time this figure has risen above the expected upper limit of season to season
variation. This is largely driven by the increase in injuries in the three highest severity groupings (8-
28 days, 28-84 days and >84 days absence).

ē For the first time hamstring injuries and concussion feature in the top three injuries resulting in more than
84 days absence. The reasons for this change in the severity profile for hamstring injury severity profile
are unclear. The number of concussions requiring more than 3 months absence has also increased.
This likely reflects a trend to more conservative management of players who have sustained two or
more concussions in a 12-month period. "


Players get paid salaries to expose themselves week in week out to what are gladiatorial risks
Ireland is maybe less bad because the schedules are managed by the IRFU but French and English players are expected to
perform through the hits and collisions.

Nobody knows what long term damage players have already sustained



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dec

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7735 on: February 11, 2019, 09:09:59 PM »
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-rugby/one-of-the-hardest-decisions-ive-ever-had-to-make-sean-obrien-confirms-london-irish-switch-37804687.html

London Irish have officially confirmed that Sean O'Brien will join the club from Leinster after the 2019 World Cup. The flanker will join the Premiership side in December 2019, bringing to an end his time with Leinster and Ireland. The 31-year-old, who turns 32 on Thursday, has played for his home province 122 times as well as winning 54 Ireland caps. He has signed a three-season deal with London Irish, where he will link up with Director of Rugby Declan Kidney and head coach Les Kiss, who previously coached O'Brien with the Ireland team.

Speaking about the move, O'Brien stressed that it wasn't an easy choice to end his career in Ireland. "This is one of the hardest decisions that I have ever had to make," O'Brien said. "I have played all my rugby in Ireland. "With Tullow, with Leinster and with Ireland and to move from the place I call home and that I love so much, was not easy. "That being said, I feel that the time has come to explore other opportunities, to challenge myself at a new environment, in a new city, with a new club and against different players and teams on a weekly basis. London Irish and what they are about is a club that I feel I can grow with and also contribute to and I feel that they have a set up and an ethos that will make me feel at home...

Rudi

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7736 on: February 12, 2019, 10:58:57 AM »
Probably should put this in the wtf thread. The Independent have Bundee Aki, Connor Murray & Jacob Stockdale (fair enough) on the 6 nations team of the week. Akis passing is brutal & Connor Murray has to be up there with the worst kickers in the game at the moment.

screenexile

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7737 on: February 12, 2019, 11:06:21 AM »
Probably should put this in the wtf thread. The Independent have Bundee Aki, Connor Murray & Jacob Stockdale (fair enough) on the 6 nations team of the week. Akis passing is brutal & Connor Murray has to be up there with the worst kickers in the game at the moment.

In fairness his kicking game has been the best in the world until this season so I wouldn't be giving him too much stick. Ben Youngs played well though so would probably feel a but hard done by.

AZOffaly

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7738 on: February 12, 2019, 11:13:45 AM »
Conor Murray's form has been so-so since he came back from injury. He was poor against Exeter in the HEC as well. However he is still one of the best 9s in the world, and I think we need to calm down a bit.

Crete Boom

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Re: The IRISH RUGBY thread
« Reply #7739 on: February 12, 2019, 11:28:24 AM »
Probably should put this in the wtf thread. The Independent have Bundee Aki, Connor Murray & Jacob Stockdale (fair enough) on the 6 nations team of the week. Akis passing is brutal & Connor Murray has to be up there with the worst kickers in the game at the moment.

Listening a bit too much to Shag Horgan and Matty Wullliams there mate!! ;)

The problem with Bundee in the England game especially was he was in at first receiver too much when he is best used as a second or third option from rucks where he can use his strength to tie in defenders at the gain line or take them out with a quick offload or break!!

The problem against Scotland & England with the centers and back three was the passing was slightly to the back shoulder rather than out in front and this was confounded with slow ruck ball and slow service from Murray! It's very unusual for any of Joe's teams to have inaccurate passing and slow ruck ball so I would be confident this will be rectified sooner rather than later!!