Kerry win all-irelands by "default"

BennyHarp · October 27, 2009, 01:26:29 PM

Couldnt agree more!

Makem insists system has allowed Kerry 'cult' win titles by default

A former Armagh football manager has claimed the imbalance of the provincial championship structures in football has led to continued Kerry success "by default".

Peter Makem, who managed Armagh to the 1982 Ulster football title, has come out strongly against the provincial structures in the wake of last week's draws.

"The GAA as an institution is dominated by the provincial councils in keeping with the old Irish tradition of provincially strong chiefs and kings and family lines creating a weak centre to the overall detriment of the country down through history," he said.

"Because of the obvious mathematical difference in the number of counties in each province and the particular growth of the various codes in these provinces, the provincial system is naturally unbalanced.

"Kerry's constant presence in championship football can only be attributed to their provincial position," Makem argues.

"They play the system as any other county would do if born into such privilege and so it has become a cult there.

Status

"The self-worth and status conferred by this tradition in Kerry ensures that young people will naturally gravitate towards it.

"This is why there is an endless supply to fill the annual market. Yet the reality is that they win their All-Irelands by default.

"They win because the majority of other counties do not have the same facility to develop as they are afforded, and the potential of the vast majority of footballers for over a century has been cut off by the very championship that should have given them real opportunity and access. This is a genuine betrayal."

Makem recalled penning a similar article 21 years ago -- published in the Irish Independent -- under the heading 'The GAA needs a Gorbachev'. Little, he says, has changed.

"Proof that Kerry generally win the All-Ireland by default is when other counties, in order to get out of the straight jacket imposed by the provincial system, have had to reinvent the game and introduce a new dynamic to their play.

"The most notable of these are Down before the Troubles and Armagh and Tyrone after the Troubles. Kerry are suddenly out of their depth when confronted with these teams in finals, and by the time they catch up, the teams, including Galway of the '60s and the Dubs at their peak in '76 and 77, are over the hill," added Makem.

"Since northern football came of age with the arrival of Down, the reality is that Kerry can not beat the great teams from there in finals. This is because their dominance is dependent on the natural weakening of counties by the provincial system."

Irish Independent

Zapatista · October 27, 2009, 01:38:35 PM

Why are Kerry the only ones this affects in a positive way?

Canalman · October 27, 2009, 02:11:43 PM

Not Kerry's greatest fan by any means but how does this "theory" fit in with Kerry's great record in the National League.
Best football county in Ireland....... end of......

Zapatista · October 27, 2009, 02:13:31 PM

Quote from: Canalman on October 27, 2009, 02:11:43 PM
Not Kerry's greatest fan by any means but how does this "theory" fit in with Kerry's great record in the National League.
Best football county in Ireland....... end of......

That's the point of it. Success breads success and as they win so many Sams it's easier to keep the conveyor belt running.

Lar Naparka · October 27, 2009, 02:23:24 PM

If only it were that simple!
Peter Makem obviously put a lot of thought into that article and it certainly seems that he is sincere in his beliefs but I think he'd need another couple of revisions before I would take his complaint seriously.
I have objections to the provincial set up also but I don't think Kerry's traditionally easy run in Munster is the only reason that they are so successful. There are other factors to be taken into account.

"Kerry's constant presence in championship football can only be attributed to their provincial position," Makem argues.
So he argues but he doesn't mention the Back Door at any stage of his argument; he doesn't mention the fact that Cork, Kerry's neighbours, should be benefitting in equal measure. Come to think of it, Cork should have far more All Irelands than Kerry since they have a far bigger pool of players to pick from.
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and all that.
For decades past, those two counties were the only ones who had a chance of winning the Munster provincial final and the winner got into a semi after playing only one serious game.
But now we have the back door system and Kerry came by the long route to win this year and they didn't have an easy campaign either.
They could easily have been knocked out by Longford or Sligo especially. In contrast to this, Cork won the Munster crown comfortably and had a more direct route to the final and seemed far more impressive than Kerry all the way.
Still, Kerry, without the Muster title and after a few shoddy displays along the way, demolished Cork in the final.
Dublin now have four Leinsters in a row and still don't seem to be anywhere close to wining the Sam Maguire.
The coming of the back door system has greatly reduced the importance of the provincial system and yet Kerry still seems capable of more than holding their own.
I don't know why this is so but I don't think Peter Makem has a clue either.

Zapatista · October 27, 2009, 02:40:20 PM

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 27, 2009, 02:23:24 PM
If only it were that simple!
Peter Makem obviously put a lot of thought into that article and it certainly seems that he is sincere in his beliefs but I think he'd need another couple of revisions before I would take his complaint seriously.
I have objections to the provincial set up also but I don't think Kerry's traditionally easy run in Munster is the only reason that they are so successful. There are other factors to be taken into account.

"Kerry's constant presence in championship football can only be attributed to their provincial position," Makem argues.
So he argues but he doesn't mention the Back Door at any stage of his argument; he doesn't mention the fact that Cork, Kerry's neighbours, should be benefitting in equal measure. Come to think of it, Cork should have far more All Irelands than Kerry since they have a far bigger pool of players to pick from.
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and all that.
For decades past, those two counties were the only ones who had a chance of winning the Munster provincial final and the winner got into a semi after playing only one serious game.
But now we have the back door system and Kerry came by the long route to win this year and they didn't have an easy campaign either.
They could easily have been knocked out by Longford or Sligo especially. In contrast to this, Cork won the Munster crown comfortably and had a more direct route to the final and seemed far more impressive than Kerry all the way.
Still, Kerry, without the Muster title and after a few shoddy displays along the way, demolished Cork in the final.
Dublin now have four Leinsters in a row and still don't seem to be anywhere close to wining the Sam Maguire.
The coming of the back door system has greatly reduced the importance of the provincial system and yet Kerry still seems capable of more than holding their own.
I don't know why this is so but I don't think Peter Makem has a clue either.

He does address this. It's what his article about.

"The self-worth and status conferred by this tradition in Kerry ensures that young people will naturally gravitate towards it.

"This is why there is an endless supply to fill the annual market. Yet the reality is that they win their All-Irelands by default.

If his theory is correct then Corks Hurling titles helps to ensure "that young people will naturally gravitate towards it (hurling)". Cork have something like 28 AI HCs and I suppose this could lend weight to the theory.

Blue Island · October 27, 2009, 02:45:51 PM

There is little doubt that before the qualifiers Kerry gained from the fact that they only had to win three games to win an All Ireland - Cork, All Ireland Semi and then final.

However, it is not so easy now, yet they are still the most consistent team in the country by a long way. When Tyrone beat them in 05 the point was made that Kerry was unprepared for the challenge, because they were not battle hardened like Tyrone who had a real dog fight with Armagh. Surley this argument applies each year. It could be argued that Kerry do not get a chance to harden themselves before playing an All Ireland semi and are are thus susceptible. However, year after year they do the business regardless. Statements like those from Peter Makem, whilst obviously sincerely held sound like sour grapes. It appear to me that Kerry simply have better players.

Zapatista · October 27, 2009, 02:52:39 PM

Quote from: Blue Island on October 27, 2009, 02:45:51 PM
It appear to me that Kerry simply have better players.

The point is that these players are motivated by the success of previous years.

It defies logic to think people born in Kerry are better footballers for being from Kerry. There is a reason thay are better footballers and the article suggests what that reason might be.

RogerMilla · October 27, 2009, 02:53:33 PM

Homer simpson was right , the two greatest words in the english language

de fault

kerry is good at football so kerry does better than everyone else at football, some thesis right enough..

ONeill · October 27, 2009, 03:01:47 PM

There is merit in his argument.

What's the population of Kerry?

armaghniac · October 27, 2009, 03:10:36 PM

Kerry have approx 140,000 people, about twice the pick of Armagh for instance. But this is only about 10% more than Mayo who have a similar geography. Tyrone have a pick somewhere in between.

Zapatista · October 27, 2009, 03:15:48 PM

Quote from: ONeill on October 27, 2009, 03:01:47 PM
There is merit in his argument.

What's the population of Kerry?

139,835

Regardless of the population it's how the system evolved over 125 years. There is no system that has us all as equal. Kerry benefit from this but they also helped to steer it along the way. Here we are with Kerry having what they have and looking good for the future.

ONeill · October 27, 2009, 03:18:32 PM

Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 27, 2009, 02:23:24 PM
If only it were that simple!
he doesn't mention the fact that Cork, Kerry's neighbours, should be benefitting in equal measure. Come to think of it, Cork should have far more All Irelands than Kerry since they have a far bigger pool of players to pick from.
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and all that.

That's a bit naive given Cork's dual nature and their attitude to football in large parts of the county.

I think it's something like 37-36 to Kerry when you combine both codes.

ONeill · October 27, 2009, 03:21:01 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2009, 03:10:36 PM
Kerry have approx 140,000 people, about twice the pick of Armagh for instance. But this is only about 10% more than Mayo who have a similar geography. Tyrone have a pick somewhere in between.

What's the soccer scene like down in Kerry, or rugby?

magpie seanie · October 27, 2009, 04:03:07 PM

While it can be argued that the path they have to take is less treacherous than others I think there are two main reasons why Kerry are successful:

(1) - the way they react to defeat. They don't make excuses and are vicious in their self analysis. The hunger for success is never quelled. People demand that Kerry win and don't take to kindly to their team not doing the business.

(2) - their club structure is the best in the country.