Benny throws open the gates of Rome to Anglicans

Tony Baloney · October 21, 2009, 05:33:07 PM

Quote from: The Iceman on October 21, 2009, 04:57:42 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 21, 2009, 04:52:37 PM
The core truths have not changed however.

Basically I am saying simply that all converts should be accepted on condition that they subscribe fully and exclusively to the tenets of Roman Catholicism.

What you seem to be implying is that the same converts can bring certain elements of the erroneous faiths they have hitherto adhered to and that these can be added to, or substitute for, certain Roman Catholic doctrines. That will inevtiably lead to at best a dilution of the truth or at worst a new further so called reformed "church", which is a mishmash of all the beliefs, erroneous or otherwise, of all the denominations.

I think the Church will continue to rely on the Holy Spirit for direction not the all knowing Tony Fearon.
If the Church decides to open its gates to Anglicans or whoever else it decides then as a Roman Catholic you must accept that Tony. Otherwise you would only be contradicting yourself.......

Tony, if there is any dilution of the Church you could become Pope of the one true Church. I'm sure Mrs. F would enjoy the reprieve.

Maguire01 · October 21, 2009, 05:56:12 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on October 21, 2009, 04:02:04 PM
I meant this strictly in connection with the fundamental truth of Roman Catholicism which derives directly from the Apostles.

Yes, via countless edits and rewrites.

Gnevin · October 21, 2009, 08:21:56 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on October 21, 2009, 03:42:59 PM
Truth is truth as laid down by Jesus and the Apostles, whch forms the core of catholicism, there is nothing new to be learned from anyone, convert or otherwise, in that respect.

http://russellsteapot.com/comics/2007/cue-the-zombie-bunny.html

Which of the 4 truths are you claiming they should believe in ?

IolarCoisCuain · October 21, 2009, 09:54:52 PM

Quote from: The Iceman on October 21, 2009, 04:33:42 PM
Tony the Roman Catholic Church has changed dramatically since the times of Jesus and the Disciples. We have made, broken and changed our own "truths" throughout the centuries. If you hold onto purely "Biblical" truths then you deny the pillar and foundation of the truth - the Church, not the Bible.

I suspect, as usual, you make ill-informed comments laced with some truth in the hope that someone will take offense and that others will not be knowledgeable enough to challenge.

New "truths" or better understanding can come from converts and from "cradle" Catholics

Interestingly, the Holy Roman and Catholic Apostolic Church places much more emphasis on the Magisterium, the two thousand years of teaching and tradition, rather than taking the Bible as literal truth. The Bible as literal truth has certain non sequiturs, as Gnevin so subtly points out. It's always important to be aware of the distinction between the Christ of faith and Christ of history.

pk205 · October 21, 2009, 10:54:20 PM

Does that mean that the converts in the Norn Iron will vote for a United Ireland now? How does that leave the ratio?!

The Iceman · October 22, 2009, 01:56:37 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on October 22, 2009, 09:16:32 AM
Boil it all down simply and the fact remains. You cannot be accepted into any organisation unless and until you accept without reservation all that that organisation stands for. Even more so with a religious faith.

If that same organisation says - we now accept people from X, then as a member, so should you accept people from X, without reservation, or form a break away church..... Which suits you more Tony?

You can't enforce acceptance of what the RC Church teaches while not accepting its decrees......Stop chasing your tail

nifan · October 22, 2009, 02:43:02 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on October 22, 2009, 02:13:34 PM
Two different scenarios. Bending the rules to accommodate membership is one thing, altering the fundamental truth of the Church's theological beliefs is something different.

How do you comprehend change within the church in general, if you believe in its fundamental truth? (not aimed at you and your view of your religion, but members of any religion really)

The Iceman · October 22, 2009, 02:48:59 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on October 22, 2009, 02:13:34 PM
Two different scenarios. Bending the rules to accommodate membership is one thing, altering the fundamental truth of the Church's theological beliefs is something different.

I suppose it equates to many members born into the Church who ignoe Church teaching on say, contraception.

Two different scenarios but the same inherent point and result - Tony is wrong.
Contraception - good man, change the subject.

The Iceman · October 22, 2009, 04:05:47 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on October 22, 2009, 04:01:13 PM
I'm not wrong, there is a difference between bending and breaking the rules. If by bdning the rules, other church members are allowed to access the one true church, then that is fine. However altering basic truths to make the church more attractive to other church members is wrong.

As far as I can see none of the basic truths are being altered in any way in this case.

So then what is your point?

nifan · October 22, 2009, 04:07:57 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on October 22, 2009, 04:01:13 PM
As far as I can see none of the basic truths are being altered in any way in this case.

What are the basic truths?

Hardy · October 22, 2009, 04:10:06 PM

And how can a truth be altered?

Hardy · October 22, 2009, 05:17:17 PM

What's the difference between a truth and a fact?

longrunsthefox · October 22, 2009, 05:17:52 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on October 22, 2009, 04:24:26 PM
Basic truths are as follows:

Salavation is possible only via the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church.

All Roman Catholic doctrine is true and unchallengable. This includes transubstantiation, power of priests to grant absolution, worship of the Blessed Virgin Mary etc.

The Pope is the supreme authority on earth, and is infallible on all matters theological.

Do you believe this Tony?... sounds like the Irish religious version of the BNP

ardmhachaabu · October 22, 2009, 06:10:09 PM

Quote from: T Fearon on October 22, 2009, 04:24:26 PM
Basic truths are as follows:

Salavation is possible only via the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church.

All Roman Catholic doctrine is true and unchallengable. This includes transubstantiation, power of priests to grant absolution, worship of the Blessed Virgin Mary etc.

The Pope is the supreme authority on earth, and is infallible on all matters theological.

Iceman already explained to you that this is not true.

The Pope is infallible in terms of the doctrine of the Church, otherwise they are human and are known to make the odd human error, which Pope John Paul II actually apologised for

If you are going to pontificate to one and all, at least get it right!

Evil Genius · October 22, 2009, 06:14:53 PM

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 22, 2009, 06:10:09 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 22, 2009, 04:24:26 PM
Basic truths are as follows:

Salavation is possible only via the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church.

All Roman Catholic doctrine is true and unchallengable. This includes transubstantiation, power of priests to grant absolution, worship of the Blessed Virgin Mary etc.

The Pope is the supreme authority on earth, and is infallible on all matters theological.
Iceman already explained to you that this is not true.

The Pope is infallible in terms of the doctrine of the Church, otherwise they are human and are known to make the odd human error, which Pope John Paul II actually apologised for

If you are going to pontificate to one and all, at least get it right!

Are you suggesting that His Fearonness is not infallible?

P.S. Liked the "pontificate", btw