This is 2009, right? Insanity at Knock!

[ludermor]

Even my mother (who works in an abbey) thinks this is just "daft". Must be something to do with the recession and people turning to religion for hope - last time she remembers this kinda thing was the moving statues craze back in the 80s.
I remember sitting in the lawn of the national school staring up at the statue of the virgin mary. We thought she moved too - amazing what the will to see something will do to a child's mind. Really shouldn't work for adults as well I'd have thought....

You saw a moving statue!!!

[Gnevin]

... but I do believe that things happen that we can't understand.

No one is denying that many things happen in this life we can't understand . However some would rather mark them as unexplainable in the hope that some time in the future we will have gained the level of understanding required to figure out what is going on while others just want to say god did it !

[Main Street]

I dont think anyone is suggesting not going to a doctor.   

Its fair enough if you dont believe what they do, I dont really buy it myself but ridiculing someone for believing something you dont is the height of arrogance.

Quite right.
Arrogance towards  and ridicule of beliefs here, have nothing to do with science,
more to do with emotional immaturity.

So what would the "emotionally mature" approach to the events at Knock be? To let them go without comment or at worst take a "live and let live" approach?

Just because a belief or outbreak of mass hysteria is sincere does not make it worthy of respect.

It might have escaped your attention that mass hysteria is what happens throughout the land on a saturday night.

In your considered opinion a couple of thousand people doing what they do, peacefully, on their own patch, is not worthy of respect.
Neither is it worthy of the disrespect you have exhibited. That is the emotionally maturity you need to grasp, but you don't learn that from some scientific study someplace.

I presume you've never had a chuckle at the expense of some person or group doing or believing in something you consider idiotic then so?

Sorry, but I think that something like this should be labeled for what it is. Whether it's a bunch of catholics reading something into the fact that they see strange colours after staring into the sun or protestant fundamentalists sending their money to some preacher in the hope that their god will bestow riches upon them to pay off their credit card debt or, to go to the extreme examples, those who reject medicine in favour of prayer or drink the kool-aid. If you think it is "emotionally immature" to be disrespectful of such behaviour, suit yourself. IMO there is far too much respect afforded this type of nonsense, purely because it is religious in nature.

In your opinion, too much respect is being given to those who congregate at Knock, (by who I do not know) therefore it is justified to be disrespectful.
Yes, that is emotional immaturity.
Just as immature as your hysterical examples.

[The Real Laoislad]

When people can take solace and comfort in the face of loss, from "it".

Does that not go for flat earthers and creationists too? For example, a large minority of the US population are fundamentalists and believe in a 6000 year old earth. Is it ok to laugh at Paisley's beliefs but not those of catholics? They all believe in it because, to at least some degree, it offers them comfort and solace.

Once again you have ignored the example given above (from another poster and I would think from the heart).
Where does believing that the earth is flat offer solace in the face of loss?

You use the two examples I included to dismiss the point, I included them so people with your beliefs or attitudes could not use them to demean what I was saying (as I have slagged these off in the past) - but you still managed!

Sorry GDA, but I am not telepathic. Its not exactly clear from your post that you "included them so people with" my apparent "beliefs or attitudes could not use them to demean" what you were saying. It looked to me like you were saying it was ok to slag off flatearther/fundamentalist beliefs.

As for Laoislad's revelation, I'm not sure what you expect from me. No one (at least not me) is disputing that people find solace and comfort in religion or that his parents might have found that a trip to Lourdes helped them in their grief, whatever the reason. And (you seem to be forcing me to say it) offering my condolences as some anonymous, faceless name on the internet just seemed trite to me, so I let the post go without comment. I am sure everyone here is sorry for his loss and for all of our losses and (I may be wrong) I doubt if he was looking for that.

First off I'm not sure what you mean by "Laoislads revelation",strange choice of words if you don't mind me saying.

Anyway apart from that to make it clear to everyone I certainly wasn't looking for sympathy or condolences from anyone,I would never make little of my brothers memory by making people feel sorry for me on a internet forum,also we all have our crosses to bare and Im sure many of you have gone through just as hard and tough times.

I only posted that to explain how my parents faith and their trip to Lourdes helped them cope with the loss of a child,it certainly didn't cure everything as even today I can see it still hurts them,but my point was for people not to be so dismissing of someones faith because for those who do believe they can use it to help them cope with certain circumstances as with my parents,and I am pretty sure they weren't lying when they said they felt something when they went to Lourdes.

[pintsofguinness]

... but I do believe that things happen that we can't understand.

No one is denying that many things happen in this life we can't understand . However some would rather mark them as unexplainable in the hope that some time in the future we will have gained the level of understanding required to figure out what is going on while others just want to say god did it !

So why do you say it didnt happen?

Its just as hard to believe that all these people who reportedly seen this are crazy or imagining things as it is to believe they seen something

But of course, you lot, who werent there, know best what they seen

[Gnevin]

... but I do believe that things happen that we can't understand.

No one is denying that many things happen in this life we can't understand . However some would rather mark them as unexplainable in the hope that some time in the future we will have gained the level of understanding required to figure out what is going on while others just want to say god did it !

So why do you say it didnt happen?

Its just as hard to believe that all these people who reportedly seen this are crazy or imagining things as it is to believe they seen something

But of course, you lot, who werent there, know best what they seen

I time it infinity more possible than some sort of mass hysteria was experienced rather than the sun  was dancing just for knock .

When the pictures come out us doubter will see how wrong we were .  I won't hold my breath

Yet again no one answered why god decides to use cheap parlour tricks on one hand while on the other allowing/killing people in natural disasters on the other.

[pintsofguinness]

I time it infinity more possible than some sort of mass hysteria was experienced rather than the sun  was dancing just for knock .

A group of people suddenly became hysterical and thought the sun was dancing in the sky?

Yet again no one answered why god decides to use cheap parlour tricks on one hand while on the other allowing/killing people in natural disasters on the other.

Well since none of us are God I think you'll be waiting a while for that answer.

[mountainboii]

... but I do believe that things happen that we can't understand.

No one is denying that many things happen in this life we can't understand . However some would rather mark them as unexplainable in the hope that some time in the future we will have gained the level of understanding required to figure out what is going on while others just want to say god did it !

God of the gaps.

[ardmhachaabu]

This is the last I'm saying on this but if you read my post about the statues - I wasn't expecting it to move and I wasn't staring at it.  As for the power of suggestion, Paul Goldin failed to hypnotise me (and I wanted to be hypnotised) - whether that's relevant or not I don't know. 

Do I believe the sun danced in Knock on Sunday?  Not particularly, but I do believe that things happen that we can't understand.

Treasure, I don't know you but I believe your story

[new devil]

The people who are saying wise up lads this never/couldnt happen..do yous believe in god?

[J70]

When people can take solace and comfort in the face of loss, from "it".

Does that not go for flat earthers and creationists too? For example, a large minority of the US population are fundamentalists and believe in a 6000 year old earth. Is it ok to laugh at Paisley's beliefs but not those of catholics? They all believe in it because, to at least some degree, it offers them comfort and solace.

Once again you have ignored the example given above (from another poster and I would think from the heart).
Where does believing that the earth is flat offer solace in the face of loss?

You use the two examples I included to dismiss the point, I included them so people with your beliefs or attitudes could not use them to demean what I was saying (as I have slagged these off in the past) - but you still managed!

Sorry GDA, but I am not telepathic. Its not exactly clear from your post that you "included them so people with" my apparent "beliefs or attitudes could not use them to demean" what you were saying. It looked to me like you were saying it was ok to slag off flatearther/fundamentalist beliefs.

As for Laoislad's revelation, I'm not sure what you expect from me. No one (at least not me) is disputing that people find solace and comfort in religion or that his parents might have found that a trip to Lourdes helped them in their grief, whatever the reason. And (you seem to be forcing me to say it) offering my condolences as some anonymous, faceless name on the internet just seemed trite to me, so I let the post go without comment. I am sure everyone here is sorry for his loss and for all of our losses and (I may be wrong) I doubt if he was looking for that.

First off I'm not sure what you mean by "Laoislads revelation",strange choice of words if you don't mind me saying.

Anyway apart from that to make it clear to everyone I certainly wasn't looking for sympathy or condolences from anyone,I would never make little of my brothers memory by making people feel sorry for me on a internet forum,also we all have our crosses to bare and Im sure many of you have gone through just as hard and tough times.

I only posted that to explain how my parents faith and their trip to Lourdes helped them cope with the loss of a child,it certainly didn't cure everything as even today I can see it still hurts them,but my point was for people not to be so dismissing of someones faith because for those who do believe they can use it to help them cope with certain circumstances as with my parents,and I am pretty sure they weren't lying when they said they felt something when they went to Lourdes.

"Revelation" as in you revealed a very tragic personal detail to the forum.

As I already said several times, I do not dispute that people find solace in religion, or that somewhere with the tradition of Lourdes (or Jerusalem or Mecca or wherever) will have an atmosphere or whatever that touches the believer because of what they believe happened there. That does not mean that everything and anything involving faith or religion is sacred or should be beyond criticism, or even ridicule.

[J70]

I presume you've never had a chuckle at the expense of some person or group doing or believing in something you consider idiotic then so?

Sorry, but I think that something like this should be labeled for what it is. Whether it's a bunch of catholics reading something into the fact that they see strange colours after staring into the sun or protestant fundamentalists sending their money to some preacher in the hope that their god will bestow riches upon them to pay off their credit card debt or, to go to the extreme examples, those who reject medicine in favour of prayer or drink the kool-aid. If you think it is "emotionally immature" to be disrespectful of such behaviour, suit yourself. IMO there is far too much respect afforded this type of nonsense, purely because it is religious in nature.

In your opinion, too much respect is being given to those who congregate at Knock, (by who I do not know) therefore it is justified to be disrespectful.
Yes, that is emotional immaturity.
Just as immature as your hysterical examples.

No, I did not say that the people at Knock were being given too much respect, I said (or at least I tried to say) that too much respect is given to this type of religiously-influenced behaviour in general (I live in the states, so I have no idea what kind of reception this is getting at home). Whenever someone has a go at religious beliefs, even in the mildest terms, never mind these type of events, we are told both here on this board and in real life, that such attacks on faith are beyond the pale. People can be ridiculed for any type of political or social belief or opinion of any type, but don't you dare talk about their faith!

And the "hysterical examples" I gave includes the event that we are talking about. What happened at Knock is just as ludicrous as the redneck sending his money to the preacher, and differs mainly in the graveness of the outcome to the "extreme examples" I gave. So I do not see what is immature about bringing them up.

But yes, I know you think I'm an immature fool. I'll live with it.

[J70]

The people who are saying wise up lads this never/couldnt happen..do yous believe in god?

Personally no, but I would seriously doubt that many believers would find these claims credible.

[The Real Laoislad]

When people can take solace and comfort in the face of loss, from "it".

Does that not go for flat earthers and creationists too? For example, a large minority of the US population are fundamentalists and believe in a 6000 year old earth. Is it ok to laugh at Paisley's beliefs but not those of catholics? They all believe in it because, to at least some degree, it offers them comfort and solace.

Once again you have ignored the example given above (from another poster and I would think from the heart).
Where does believing that the earth is flat offer solace in the face of loss?

You use the two examples I included to dismiss the point, I included them so people with your beliefs or attitudes could not use them to demean what I was saying (as I have slagged these off in the past) - but you still managed!

Sorry GDA, but I am not telepathic. Its not exactly clear from your post that you "included them so people with" my apparent "beliefs or attitudes could not use them to demean" what you were saying. It looked to me like you were saying it was ok to slag off flatearther/fundamentalist beliefs.

As for Laoislad's revelation, I'm not sure what you expect from me. No one (at least not me) is disputing that people find solace and comfort in religion or that his parents might have found that a trip to Lourdes helped them in their grief, whatever the reason. And (you seem to be forcing me to say it) offering my condolences as some anonymous, faceless name on the internet just seemed trite to me, so I let the post go without comment. I am sure everyone here is sorry for his loss and for all of our losses and (I may be wrong) I doubt if he was looking for that.

First off I'm not sure what you mean by "Laoislads revelation",strange choice of words if you don't mind me saying.

Anyway apart from that to make it clear to everyone I certainly wasn't looking for sympathy or condolences from anyone,I would never make little of my brothers memory by making people feel sorry for me on a internet forum,also we all have our crosses to bare and Im sure many of you have gone through just as hard and tough times.

I only posted that to explain how my parents faith and their trip to Lourdes helped them cope with the loss of a child,it certainly didn't cure everything as even today I can see it still hurts them,but my point was for people not to be so dismissing of someones faith because for those who do believe they can use it to help them cope with certain circumstances as with my parents,and I am pretty sure they weren't lying when they said they felt something when they went to Lourdes.

"Revelation" as in you revealed a very tragic personal detail to the forum.

As I already said several times, I do not dispute that people find solace in religion, or that somewhere with the tradition of Lourdes (or Jerusalem or Mecca or wherever) will have an atmosphere or whatever that touches the believer because of what they believe happened there. That does not mean that everything and anything involving faith or religion is sacred or should be beyond criticism, or even ridicule.

Fair enough..
I thought it was a bit dramatic to phrase it in such a way as if I was making some sort of miraculous claim.
No harm done,lets forget about it..

[Gnevin]

I time it infinity more possible than some sort of mass hysteria was experienced rather than the sun  was dancing just for knock .

A group of people suddenly became hysterical and thought the sun was dancing in the sky?

Yet again no one answered why god decides to use cheap parlour tricks on one hand while on the other allowing/killing people in natural disasters on the other.

Well since none of us are God I think you'll be waiting a while for that answer.

It has happened before and will happen again. It was either that or the sun danced in the sky just for knock .

I'm sure God wouldn't mind you offering an opinion as so his motivations .