Is it time?????????

[Lawrence of Knockbride]

Respiratory problems? Believed and linked are good words to use I feel. So where do we draw the line? Deep fried food? Additives? Definitely bad for you and you don't even have to be 18 to buy them.
Don't intentionally misinterpret my point in order to say I'm childish. The point is I should be able to buy 3 cans of beer at midnight if I feel like a drink and I'm not a young person and I have responsibility for myself thank you.

[fitzroyalty]

We have problems with tobacco, we've problems with alcohol how would introducing another drug in to society help?

We wouldn't be introducing it we'd be legalising it. Cannabis is probably the most widely used recreational drug in the world so people will use it whether its legal or not. This country is far too conservative. Don't believe everything the scaremongers tell you

[pintsofguinness]

Respiratory problems? Believed and linked are good words to use I feel. So where do we draw the line? Deep fried food? Additives? Definitely bad for you and you don't even have to be 18 to buy them.
Don't intentionally misinterpret my point in order to say I'm childish. The point is I should be able to buy 3 cans of beer at midnight if I feel like a drink and I'm not a young person and I have responsibility for myself thank you.

Yes, and cancer, same problems as tobacco. Deep fried food, like drink, is fine in moderation.  I don't think you can compare it to an illegal drug!
I never said you were childish either, I said your argument was childish, there are plenty of things, most things in fact, that you can't buy at midnight.  In fact, drink is probably one of the easier things to buy at midnight.  I would have no issue with longer opening hours but the argument that lack of 24 hour pubs cause people to binge drink doesnt add up.

You never answered my point, if you could travel back in time (knowing what you know) to a discussion like this about tobacco would you argue it should be freely available or argue that it was a bad idea?

We have problems with tobacco, we've problems with alcohol how would introducing another drug in to society help?

We wouldn't be introducing it we'd be legalising it. Cannabis is probably the most widely used recreational drug in the world so people will use it whether its legal or not. This country is far too conservative. Don't believe everything the scaremongers tell you

Do you mean most widely used illegal drug?
So ten years from now, when coke or heroin is the most widely used illegal drug you'll be arguing to make them legal too?

[fitzroyalty]

We have problems with tobacco, we've problems with alcohol how would introducing another drug in to society help?

We wouldn't be introducing it we'd be legalising it. Cannabis is probably the most widely used recreational drug in the world so people will use it whether its legal or not. This country is far too conservative. Don't believe everything the scaremongers tell you

Do you mean most widely used illegal drug?
So ten years from now, when coke or heroin is the most widely used illegal drug you'll be arguing to make them legal too?

No I mean recreational. It is literally harmless. I wouldn't go any further than legalising cannabis, allowing class As would just be stupid.

[pintsofguinness]

We have problems with tobacco, we've problems with alcohol how would introducing another drug in to society help?

We wouldn't be introducing it we'd be legalising it. Cannabis is probably the most widely used recreational drug in the world so people will use it whether its legal or not. This country is far too conservative. Don't believe everything the scaremongers tell you

Do you mean most widely used illegal drug?
So ten years from now, when coke or heroin is the most widely used illegal drug you'll be arguing to make them legal too?

No I mean recreational. It is literally harmless. I wouldn't go any further than legalising cannabis, allowing class As would just be stupid.

Cannabis is more widely used than alcohol? Have you anything that backs that up because I find it very hard to believe. 
And you think it's harmless? If only.

[fitzroyalty]

Cannabis is more widely used than alcohol? Have you anything that backs that up because I find it very hard to believe. 
And you think it's harmless? If only.

I'm not saying cannabis is more widely used than alcohol but then again I'm not talking about alcohol in the context of a recreational drug. It would appear you are, so why is it ok for a recreational drug such as alcohol to be so widely available when the effects of it can be fatal yet another recreational drug such as cannabis which is less harmful is illegal?

[Maiden1]

Pintofguinness, we're talking about cannabis here not all drugs. Cannabis has never killed anyone in this country. If you take it with tobacco then that's another matter. What problems could it cause. When you're stoned you're stoned and you can't be arsed fighting with anyone unlike drink.
The problem is we live in the nanny state. Who the f**k is Mary Harney, health freak herself, to tell me what I can or can't put in my body. As boojangles says you can't get drink 24 hours a day so what happens? People rush to the bar for all they can get (esp young people) at the one time, leave the pub at the one time and there's potential for oln-street problems.
If we were smoking cannabis, we'd be at home vegetating harming nobody else which should be our choice.
And I would say that Guinness sponsoring one of our national sports is encouraging people to drink, sensibly of course.

Smoking cannabis is believed to cause the same respiratory problems as smoking tobacco, it's also linked to mental illness.  Why would we want to make it freely available and have a lot more problems to deal with? I'll put it this way, if you could take a time machine back to when cigarettes began would you say it was a good or bad idea to make them freely available?
You can talk about living in a nanny state, you can put whatever you want in to your body but it becomes other people's business when their taxes have to go on your medical bills. 
Whether you can or not get alcohol 24 hours a day is not a factor in the drinking culture in Ireland, the problems with drink stem from people's attitudes.  The attitude that you can't have a good night out unless you're puking up in the street at the end of it.  To argue that poor young people only have about 12-13 hours in the day to get drink makes them over indulge is a very childish argument and ironic coming from someone complaining about being in a nanny state, have some responsibility for yourself.  Most pubs where I live are earlier shutting times than at home but I wouldnt see nearly as many drunk people as I would at home so your argument doesnt make sense. 

Boo

Unfortunately Heroin is available in nearly every medium sized town in Ireland.It is the drug that causes suffering and anybody who sells it should be locked up.But I am not talking about the Govt legalizing it.Not all drugs cause suffering Pints.
Cannabis and Marajuana could be regulated and decriminalised and therefore put the power back in the hands of the Government.That would also cut out over half of the Criminal gangs business.Therefore eliminating crime. The product could also be improved as there is less cutting and mixing,like goes on when Cannabis reaches Ireland.

You claimed in a post that drugs where freely available in Ireland, I asked you did you know where to get drugs right now and from your lack of a answer I assume you don't.  I don't know where to get drugs now nor would I have a clue if I was at home so they're not that freely available.  If they were legal I would know, I may be tempted to take them, younger people certainly would and how would that be good for society?

We have problems with tobacco, we've problems with alcohol how would introducing another drug in to society help?

If a smoker smokes 20 a day and drinks 15 pints a week dies at 65 will they cost the taxman more than someone who lives to 100, never drinks or smokes, gets a pension and lives in a nursing home for the last 20 years of there life?

I seen a documentary once where Heroin addicts in a district in England where given a legal dose of Heroin everyday from a clinic, the crime rate in the area collapsed as the addicts didn't need to mug, steal or resort to prostitution to fund there habit, they where also more healthy as it was pure heroin they where getting, the stuff on the streets is full of all the other sh1t the dealers put in the heroin.  I'm not saying I would like Heroin to be available like in the old chinese opium dens but it is one way of managing the problem.

[Lawrence of Knockbride]

If I could go back in time I would make everything available to adults including tobacco yes. If we're old enough to vote and drive at 18 then we're old enough to decide what we should or shouldn't do with our bodies. Some people could smoke cannabis all their lives and have no ill effects just like drink or tobacco.
And I would legalise all other drugs too-I can't have this attitude and pick and choose which drugs. People need to decide for themselves and as Maiden1 says the major problems with all illegal drugs is the lack of a standard product.
Put it this way-legalise ecstacy and put a big fat sticker on the bag/packet saying that people with weak hearts should be aware of the possible effects. They do it with cigarettes and even paracetemol.

[pintsofguinness]

Cannabis is more widely used than alcohol? Have you anything that backs that up because I find it very hard to believe. 
And you think it's harmless? If only.

I'm not saying cannabis is more widely used than alcohol but then again I'm not talking about alcohol in the context of a recreational drug. It would appear you are, so why is it ok for a recreational drug such as alcohol to be so widely available when the effects of it can be fatal yet another recreational drug such as cannabis which is less harmful is illegal?

Alcohol, for most people, is not addictive nor does it affect their health. 
You have no basis of saying cannabis is less harmful than alcohol.

If a smoker smokes 20 a day and drinks 15 pints a week dies at 65 will they cost the taxman more than someone who lives to 100, never drinks or smokes, gets a pension and lives in a nursing home for the last 20 years of there life?

That's a bit simplistic.

Lawrence

If I could go back in time I would make everything available to adults including tobacco yes. If we're old enough to vote and drive at 18 then we're old enough to decide what we should or shouldn't do with our bodies. Some people could smoke cannabis all their lives and have no ill effects just like drink or tobacco.
And I would legalise all other drugs too-I can't have this attitude and pick and choose which drugs. People need to decide for themselves and as Maiden1 says the major problems with all illegal drugs is the lack of a standard product.
Put it this way-legalise ecstacy and put a big fat sticker on the bag/packet saying that people with weak hearts should be aware of the possible effects. They do it with cigarettes and even paracetemol.

f**k me, what would the country be like then.   

[Lawrence of Knockbride]

Cannabis is widely smoked in Ireland and in all the "information" published to tell us of how awful it is there's never a mention of it causing death, the same cannot be said of alcohol so I think I have a basis.

What would the country be like then? Something like it is now. The reason being that anyone that wants ecstacy can get it. People such as yourself would still not want it I assume and so things would pretty much stay the same.

[Sandino]

LOK you have indeed posed a topical question? It is one that needs to be debated. 

It is an interesting debate and also a debate riddled with inaccuracies. There are arguments for the legalisation of cannabis.  The fact that ones mates uses it or an individual uses it without ill effects is not a valid argument.  Not that I'm saying that anyone on this board uses it. There are those who may use it without any ill effects.

However there is clear evidence that smoking cannabis is more likely to cause cancer than smoking ordinary cigarettes.

Around 1 in 10 cannabis users have unpleasant experiences, including confusion, hallucinations, anxiety and paranoia.

A large study in New Zealand followed up 1265 children for 25 years. It found that cannabis use in adolescence was linked to poor school performance.

Over the past few years, research has strongly suggested that there is a clear link between early cannabis use and later mental health problems in those with a genetic vulnerability - and that there is a particular issue with the use of cannabis by adolescents.

However, adolescents who used cannabis daily were five times more likely to develop depression and anxiety in later life.

If you start smoking it before the age of 15, you are 4 times more likely to develop a psychotic disorder by the time you are 26.

This debate should not be about cannabis or alcohol and which is most dangerous. They are both dangerous and they both need to be treated with respect and caution.

Finally a recent study in France looked at over 10,000 drivers who were involved in fatal car crashes. Even when the influence of alcohol was taken into account, cannabis users were more than twice as likely to be the cause of a fatal crash than to be one of the victims.

By all means lets have this debate but lets stick to research based evidence and fact.

[Lawrence of Knockbride]

LOK you have indeed posed a topical question? It is one that needs to be debated. 

It is an interesting debate and also a debate riddled with inaccuracies. There are arguments for the legalisation of cannabis.  The fact that ones mates uses it or an individual uses it without ill effects is not a valid argument.  Not that I'm saying that anyone on this board uses it. There are those who may use it without any ill effects.

However there is clear evidence that smoking cannabis is more likely to cause cancer than smoking ordinary cigarettes.

Around 1 in 10 cannabis users have unpleasant experiences, including confusion, hallucinations, anxiety and paranoia.

A large study in New Zealand followed up 1265 children for 25 years. It found that cannabis use in adolescence was linked to poor school performance.

Over the past few years, research has strongly suggested that there is a clear link between early cannabis use and later mental health problems in those with a genetic vulnerability - and that there is a particular issue with the use of cannabis by adolescents.

However, adolescents who used cannabis daily were five times more likely to develop depression and anxiety in later life.

If you start smoking it before the age of 15, you are 4 times more likely to develop a psychotic disorder by the time you are 26.

This debate should not be about cannabis or alcohol and which is most dangerous. They are both dangerous and they both need to be treated with respect and caution.

Finally a recent study in France looked at over 10,000 drivers who were involved in fatal car crashes. Even when the influence of alcohol was taken into account, cannabis users were more than twice as likely to be the cause of a fatal crash than to be one of the victims.

By all means lets have this debate but lets stick to research based evidence and fact.

I agree.
My point about everyone not being affected was only to draw a comparison with the likes of drink. It wasn't a reason I was giving for legalisation.
Where can I get hold of this clear evidence that cannabis is more likely to cause cancer than cigarettes?

Part of any legalisation would need to include education so that people can make up their own mind. This would cover the side effects possible.
School performance wouldn't come into as I presume it would be restricted to over 18s.
People with a genetic vulnerability should know better than to take something that would put themselves at risk like if a man with a weak heart decided to run a marathon. It's common sense, no?
Again the depression point relates to people under 18 and 4 times more likely than not likely doesn't make it likely. I'd have to see some stats for this point to be relevant.
Of course you wouldn't be allowed to drive under the influence-a no brainer I'd have thought.

So most of your points while assuming they're accurate don't seem to point for criminalisation. In fact some point towards legalising, standardising and educating which is what I'm saying.
Oh and I understand that you weren't advocating that it remain illegal.

[Sandino]

Cannabis being burnt as in smoking it creates more carcinogenic chemicals, this relates only to the smoking of Cannabis.

You propose the restriction of this powerful drug to over 18s, this has not worked with alcohol another powerful drug why would it work with cannabis.

'People with a genetic vulnerability should know better than to take something that would put them selves at risk'   this is just silly most people do not know their genetic background apart from a few obvious ailments. Remember fit sportsmen may drop dead at any time due to genetic issues.

Most research now points to cannabis being a factor with depression.

As for driving under the influence, how would you know if someone was under the influence not all ways easy to tell.

And just to clarify we have not touched on the issue of cannabis as a gateway drug which it is in many cases.

I do not think putting people in prison for using cannabis is a good way of dealing with this issue but I do not think that legalizing it is the right move at present.

[Lawrence of Knockbride]

As I asked, could you point me in the right direction for this clear evidence in relation to the cancer? And if it's true then again educate.
I'm not saying it "works" with alcohol but my point is we're trusted to be old enough at 18 to drive,drink,vote and have sex so surely this should be added to the list.
Regardless of what people know or don't know, the fact is if you're going to put something in your body that you're warned may be dangerous then you should have sense to check it out. The current standards shouldn't always be used as a benchmark.
I'm not sure about the driving but i'd have thought that if there are stats to show what % people have been taking cannabis while driving that there must be some way of telling?
The gateway drug? Now you say in many cases-can you pont these out? Because the only examples I've read on this (Holland) dismiss this completely.

[pintsofguinness]

What would the country be like then? Something like it is now.

You really couldnt see a difference between the country now and one where all drugs would be legal and being sold in local shops and pubs?