The Back Door Winners and Losers

[furboot]

In yesterdays Sunday Indo Eamon Sweeney had an interesting piece http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/novelty-gets-shown-the-door-1903772.html comparing how the last 9 years of football would have ended if there was no back door. His conclusions were as follows :

2001 - Final would have been Meath v Roscommon with a Meath win instead of a Galway win over Meath
2002  - Armagh win over Galway instead of Armagh win over Kerry
2003 - Tyrone win against Laois in final instead of a win against Armagh
2004 - no change - Kerry beat Mayo
2005 - Armagh would have met and beat Kerry instead of Tyrone beating Kerry
2006 - Mayo would have met Cork and won instead of losing to Kerry
2007 - Kerry would have met and beat Tyrone instead of their win over Cork
2008 - Dublin would have won final against Cork as opposed to Tyrone's win over Kerry
2009 - Dublin v Cork again with a Cork win this time instead of Kerry win over Cork

so instead of the 9 titles going to 4 counties - Kerry (4), Tyrone (3), Armagh and Galway - the result could have been 7 counties winning a title - Kerry (2), Armagh (2), Tyrone, Cork, Dublin, Mayo and Meath. And on top of that Roscommon and Laois could have made it to a final.
I know it's all hyopthetical but themain point is to question if the back door is good for the game or not. Certainly the weaker counties benefit by getting the extra games and an extended run. But it also looks like it is also working to the benefit of the stronger counties who can afford to lose and get that second chance.  The big losers seem to be the likes of Dublin, Mayo, Cork and Laois and a few others who have brought great excitement and effort to the game in the same period but have nothing to show for it.
The game is better when the spoils are more evenly divided.
This post is not to generate debate on who exactly might have won in each year but to question whether the current Kerry / Tyrone dominance is being faciliated by the back door system to the detriment of others. The main case against the back door being dropped is that it will penalise the weaker counties but is that a fair argument if the only real winners are 2 counties. Nothing against either Kerry or Tyrone as they are both great teams but ....
Paudie O'Se thinks the back door is working fine http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/back-door-gets-my-vote-to-deliver-the-right-results-1903775.htmlbut he would as Kerry have bagged All Irelands in 2006 and 2009 that they otherwise wouldn't and Tyrone would't have even been in the finals of 2005 and 2008.

[redhandloo]

Eamoin Sweeney - Enough said 

[armaghniac]

2003 - Tyrone win against Laois in final instead of a win against Armagh
2004 - no change - Kerry beat May

Two points. Would Armagh have gone out of Ulster so easily if there had been no backdoor? if they had not, they might have rattled Tyrone in Ulster as the team lead by the present Armagh manager did.

In 2004 with no back door the Ulster champions would have played Connacht with no QFs. Armagh could very well have beaten Mayo as they may have approached this game in a more serious frame of mind.

[full back]

Finally...................we are recognised as 'Team Of The Decade'

[supersarsfields]

2003 - Tyrone win against Laois in final instead of a win against Armagh
2004 - no change - Kerry beat May

Two points. Would Armagh have gone out of Ulster so easily if there had been no backdoor? if they had not, they might have rattled Tyrone in Ulster as the team lead by the present Armagh manager did.

In 2004 with no back door the Ulster champions would have played Connacht with no QFs. Armagh could very well have beaten Mayo as they may have approached this game in a more serious frame of mind.

That could be aimed at any of the top teams that were put out any year not just Armagh.

[cornafean]

This post is not to generate debate on who exactly might have won in each year but to question whether the current Kerry / Tyrone dominance is being faciliated by the back door system to the detriment of others. The main case against the back door being dropped is that it will penalise the weaker counties but is that a fair argument if the only real winners are 2 counties. Nothing against either Kerry or Tyrone as they are both great teams but ....

By Sweeney's logic, Tyrone could quite easily have won another one in 2001.

It takes an incredible leap of faith to imagine that Dublin and Cork could have each reached both of the last 2 All Ireland finals. A similar leap of faith is required to imagine that Mayo could have beaten anyone in the 2006 final, given their performance that day.

Tyrone and Kerry would have dominated football this decade regardless of the format.

[armaghniac]

That could be aimed at any of the top teams that were put out any year not just Armagh.

Exactly. It is simplistic to just take the provincial winners and take it from there. Without a backdoor Tyrone might have won an extra Ulster or two, and so been able to play in the later rounds and Kerry would not have been so complacent in Munster.

[blanketattack]

Kerry probably wouldn't have won the league this year but would have won Munster and the All-Ireland. Kerry did very little training during the league which kept them fresh for the league games against teams who were tired. If there was no back door, Kerry would have trained hard from March to May instead of what they did this year when it was done from June to August.

[furboot]

not questioning that Kerry and Tyrone were / are great teams in their own and deserved their wins on the day. Most teams that win any given match (including an All Ireland Final) deserve their win ...... that's not being challenged or debated. Kerry and Tyrone both play to the back door system and fair play to them. And if there wasn't a back door the approach to provincial games might have very well seen different outcomes.

What is being raised is the question of whether the back door system has directly resulted in the likes of Cork or Mayo or Dublin or Meath not getting one single title between them. Sure, Dublin didn't even make it to a final in that time but they have won 5 Leinsters on the trot from 2005-2009 but in 2005, 2008 and 2009 they have then lost to Tyrone, Tyrone and Kerry respectively, all coming through the back door and each of those 3 years their conquerors have gone on to capture the title. Not making any special case for the Dubs btw..

Here is another fact - in the 10 years pre back-door (1991 - 2000) there were 7 different counties winning Sam and 10 different counties actually got to a final. Over the 9 years of the back door just 4 counties have won (Kerry, Tyrone, Armagh and Galway) and only Cork, Mayo and Meath other than the winners have made it to a final. Whichever way you look at it there are less counties getting a final day outing or sharing the spoils and the back door looks like part of the reason why.!!

[western exile]

2009 Mayo would have beaten Dublin in the semi-final

[Bogball XV]

The Loup won the Derry championship yesterday after shipping a 7 pt beating in round one.

[Aaron Boone]

Westmeath winning in Salthill wearing an away green strip stands out.

The old story of Westmeath only wearing maroon cause Galway, coming home from Croker, threw out their old jerseys from the bus in Athlone, was put to rest.

[longrunsthefox]

A rubbish hypothetical article. The cream comes to the top whatever the format and back door brings different approach to all or nothing games. Teams often go out and know is another chance if they lose. Makes a big diference to their performance...

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

What is being raised is the question of whether the back door system has directly resulted in the likes of Cork or Mayo or Dublin or Meath not getting one single title between them. Sure, Dublin didn't even make it to a final in that time but they have won 5 Leinsters on the trot from 2005-2009 but in 2005, 2008 and 2009 they have then lost to Tyrone, Tyrone and Kerry respectively, all coming through the back door and each of those 3 years their conquerors have gone on to capture the title. Not making any special case for the Dubs btw..

Here is another fact - in the 10 years pre back-door (1991 - 2000) there were 7 different counties winning Sam and 10 different counties actually got to a final. Over the 9 years of the back door just 4 counties have won (Kerry, Tyrone, Armagh and Galway) and only Cork, Mayo and Meath other than the winners have made it to a final. Whichever way you look at it there are less counties getting a final day outing or sharing the spoils and the back door looks like part of the reason why.!!

Ultimately these teams were not good enough to win the title regardless of what the system was. The comparison with the 90's doesnt really stand up either in my opinion. It was a different era with little separating a number of teams over a few years and even had there been a back door system I would thought you still have had a few different winners. This decade has been different with two teams a fair bit ahead of the rest. 

[Rossfan]

This decade has been different with two teams a fair bit ahead of the rest.

Summed up in a nutshell  a Láimh. Nothing to do with back/front/side doors etc