The 26 County Lisbon Treaty Poll

[Farrandeelin]

Ye are worse than Cowen. He said today that there won't be a third vote when Lisbon gets rejected again this weekend.

sure he is just telling lies like SF and Ganley have done for two campaigns 

What lies?

[magpie seanie]

I'm not sure either way but I certainly don't think the result will be reflective of the latest opinion polls. I expect it to be much tighter.

What lies has Ganley been telling? He actually knows his stuff and is one of the few who can speak with authority on the actual treaty and not introduce misty eyed, misleading rhetoric. Didn't vote for him in the Euro's cos some of his politics doesn't sit well with me but to me he has been the star turn of the campaign.

[Tankie]

Ye are worse than Cowen. He said today that there won't be a third vote when Lisbon gets rejected again this weekend.

sure he is just telling lies like SF and Ganley have done for two campaigns 

What lies?

just look back at the last campaign and the crap they went on about like abortion, taxes etc......all from a guy who wont tell us who funds him...

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Don't follow this crap at all but why are they having another vote?

Is it a case of "We didn't like the result of the last vote, we'll have another"?

Democracy is alive and well.

Sure is, much the same way we keep voting on Abortion and used to about Divorce (Personaly against abortion and believe int the right to a divorce).

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Ye are worse than Cowen. He said today that there won't be a third vote when Lisbon gets rejected again this weekend.

sure he is just telling lies like SF and Ganley have done for two campaigns 

What lies?

just look back at the last campaign and the crap they went on about like abortion, taxes etc......all from a guy who wont tell us who funds him...

The British Right Wing & the United States Military DOH! I reckon he is a CIA spy.

[magpie seanie]

Ye are worse than Cowen. He said today that there won't be a third vote when Lisbon gets rejected again this weekend.

sure he is just telling lies like SF and Ganley have done for two campaigns 

What lies?

just look back at the last campaign and the crap they went on about like abortion, taxes etc......all from a guy who wont tell us who funds him...

The British Right Wing & the United States Military DOH! I reckon he is a CIA spy.

That's fairly weak guys and I think you know it. Play the ball not the man! Trouble is - Ganley is so good and well versed on the Treaty the only way to eat him is to play the man and hope to muddy the waters. Hopefully the Irish people won't be scared enough to fall for it.

[INDIANA]

I'm not sure either way but I certainly don't think the result will be reflective of the latest opinion polls. I expect it to be much tighter.

What lies has Ganley been telling? He actually knows his stuff and is one of the few who can speak with authority on the actual treaty and not introduce misty eyed, misleading rhetoric. Didn't vote for him in the Euro's cos some of his politics doesn't sit well with me but to me he has been the star turn of the campaign.

Ganley represents the facts to suit his own agenda. Why is the treaty supported by all the main opposition parties? Why is it supported by the Small Firms Association?  Because it does nothing to impinge our tax status, neutrality or otherwise. It can only be a good thing in my view.
Whats the reasoning for voting no? Thats what the no side can't tell anyone it seems. Long-term this is a good deal. Can't keep pissing off people we export most of our goods to all the time.

[Tankie]

Ye are worse than Cowen. He said today that there won't be a third vote when Lisbon gets rejected again this weekend.

sure he is just telling lies like SF and Ganley have done for two campaigns 

What lies?

just look back at the last campaign and the crap they went on about like abortion, taxes etc......all from a guy who wont tell us who funds him...

The British Right Wing & the United States Military DOH! I reckon he is a CIA spy.

That's fairly weak guys and I think you know it. Play the ball not the man! Trouble is - Ganley is so good and well versed on the Treaty the only way to eat him is to play the man and hope to muddy the waters. Hopefully the Irish people won't be scared enough to fall for it.

My issue with Ganley is that he interprets the treaty to suit himself and plays it that the treaty is out to get Ireland and nations in general but when history shows that the EU has always been about its members and developing the EU for the to better its citizens....but Ganleys business would benefit from a No vote

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Ye are worse than Cowen. He said today that there won't be a third vote when Lisbon gets rejected again this weekend.

sure he is just telling lies like SF and Ganley have done for two campaigns 

What lies?

just look back at the last campaign and the crap they went on about like abortion, taxes etc......all from a guy who wont tell us who funds him...

The British Right Wing & the United States Military DOH! I reckon he is a CIA spy.

That's fairly weak guys and I think you know it. Play the ball not the man! Trouble is - Ganley is so good and well versed on the Treaty the only way to eat him is to play the man and hope to muddy the waters. Hopefully the Irish people won't be scared enough to fall for it.

My issue with Ganley is that he interprets the treaty to suit himself and plays it that the treaty is out to get Ireland and nations in general but when history shows that the EU has always been about its members and developing the EU for the to better its citizens....but Ganleys business would benefit from a No vote

Ganley is only campaigning in Ireland so as to stop the Treaty on behalf of the United Kingdom & not Ireland, he can't go one sentance without saying Ireland and the UK this Ireland and the UK that. He is in this for the UK not Ireland. I firmly believe he is in the pocket of the Americans.

[Hound]

I'm not sure either way but I certainly don't think the result will be reflective of the latest opinion polls. I expect it to be much tighter.

What lies has Ganley been telling? He actually knows his stuff and is one of the few who can speak with authority on the actual treaty and not introduce misty eyed, misleading rhetoric. Didn't vote for him in the Euro's cos some of his politics doesn't sit well with me but to me he has been the star turn of the campaign.

Speaking of misty eyed and misleading, have you seen Ganley's adverts with the young children who look close to tears?

[Zapatista]

Ganley is only campaigning in Ireland so as to stop the Treaty on behalf of the United Kingdom & not Ireland, he can't go one sentance without saying Ireland and the UK this Ireland and the UK that. He is in this for the UK not Ireland. I firmly believe he is in the pocket of the Americans.

You lost it at the end.

[Zapatista]

Don't follow this crap at all but why are they having another vote?

Is it a case of "We didn't like the result of the last vote, we'll have another"?

Democracy is alive and well.

Ireland is probably the most democratic country of the all. The French and Dutch were bypassed, the others didn't get to vote yet we get to vote twice 

[mylestheslasher]

I'm not sure either way but I certainly don't think the result will be reflective of the latest opinion polls. I expect it to be much tighter.

What lies has Ganley been telling? He actually knows his stuff and is one of the few who can speak with authority on the actual treaty and not introduce misty eyed, misleading rhetoric. Didn't vote for him in the Euro's cos some of his politics doesn't sit well with me but to me he has been the star turn of the campaign.

Ganley represents the facts to suit his own agenda. Why is the treaty supported by all the main opposition parties? Why is it supported by the Small Firms Association?  Because it does nothing to impinge our tax status, neutrality or otherwise. It can only be a good thing in my view.
Whats the reasoning for voting no? Thats what the no side can't tell anyone it seems. Long-term this is a good deal. Can't keep pissing off people we export most of our goods to all the time.

This crap is one of the main reasons I am voting no. The "yes" side is not campaigning on the content of the treaty at all at the moment but is instead warning us not to "upset" the rest of europe or we'll be punished. Is that what democracy is coming to in Ireland now? Sickening to see labour spouting the same crap as FF & FG, clearly all of the Yes parties sat down and agreed that this was the way to campaign. I will not be bullied by anyone.

The 2nd reason I will vote no is because we have already voted and I think a re vote is a disgrace while not one word of the treaty has changed.

The 3rd reason I will vote no (and this is one  that very few bring up) a yes vote means there will never be a referendum on any european issue ever again as the terms of this treaty are so broad. All the referendums he have had on europe were decided by the supreme court as being neccessary some time ago as the resulted in a significant change to what we had agreed to previously. With a treaty so far reaching and vague it will be argued that future decisions will not need the people to vote.

[Hound]

This crap is one of the main reasons I am voting no. The "yes" side is not campaigning on the content of the treaty at all at the moment but is instead warning us not to "upset" the rest of europe or we'll be punished. Is that what democracy is coming to in Ireland now? Sickening to see labour spouting the same crap as FF & FG, clearly all of the Yes parties sat down and agreed that this was the way to campaign. I will not be bullied by anyone.

The 2nd reason I will vote no is because we have already voted and I think a re vote is a disgrace while not one word of the treaty has changed.

The 3rd reason I will vote no (and this is one  that very few bring up) a yes vote means there will never be a referendum on any european issue ever again as the terms of this treaty are so broad. All the referendums he have had on europe were decided by the supreme court as being neccessary some time ago as the resulted in a significant change to what we had agreed to previously. With a treaty so far reaching and vague it will be argued that future decisions will not need the people to vote.

Fair play for addressing your reasons/concerns. I'll give my opinion on them, if I may:

1. I think you'd want to be very soft skinned or biased to think you are being bullied into voting one way or the other. Both campaigns are trying to persuade voters as best they can, and both sides could be accused of going "below the belt" in certain aspects of their campaign. But nobody is forcing you to vote one way or another.

2. Its not exactly true to say we're voting on the same thing. The substance has been clarified/changed due to the guarantees given.

All the main polictical parties think Lisbon is good for Ireland, so a company called Millward Brown was commissioned to do a study/survey to find out why people voted no. 1600 No voters were surveyed as to why they voted No. That gives a margin of error of less than 3% in terms of our electorate.

42% of no voters said they didn't understand the treaty. 26% voted no for reasons such as abortion, conscription etc. So on the basis of that, there's a huge chunk of the No vote that could potentially be swayed if they were better informed or the treaty tightened up.

So the government re-ran the referendum, in the hope of explaining it better. They also received legally binding guarantees from the European Council that nothing in the Lisbon Treaty affects :
- Right to Life, family and education
- Taxation
- Security and defence

So in many people's eyes, we are not voting on the same thing again.

3. Not quite true as I understand it.
Lisbon does introduce a new simpler method of amending the treaties in areas of the functioning of EU institutions (internal EU policy). This allows for individual amendments to be passed separately without the need to draft an entire new international treaty, which is very time consuming and expensive. The new procedure still requires the amendments to be ratified by each nation in accordance with their own laws. Because it does not need a new treaty, a referendum will not be required every time something changes - it will just need to be passed like almost every other law in Ireland, i.e. by the Dail.

However, (also like any other national law change), if the proposal is not compatible with our constitution then a referendum will be required.

A benefit of this is that rather than us voting on a huge plethora of changes at once, like in this and previous treaties, it will enable us to vote on individual treaty amendments.

The simplified revision procedure cannot be used to increase the competences of the EU - this would still require a entire new treaty (and a referendum).

[Zapatista]

All the main polictical parties think Lisbon is good for Ireland, so a company called Millward Brown was commissioned to do a study/survey to find out why people voted no. 1600 No voters were surveyed as to why they voted No. That gives a margin of error of less than 3% in terms of our electorate.

It was a multiple choice survey. It didn't ask, did you vote No as you are against the perceived direction the EU is heading in? Or Did you vote No against the Government? Or many of the other issues. It asked about neutrality and conscription but not about futher militarisation. The survey was was given terms of reference.