Thoughts from a football man watching the hurling

[thewobbler]

One other thing struck me today as odd. Tipp's keeper played an excellent short puck out to his wing back. What did the wing-back do? He turned, and without looking, drove the ball as far as he could up the field. Which surely defeated any purpose of the short puck out. At least the keeper could have pretended he was aiming at a certain target.


HS - a possession game has to be possible. I've no doubt that there were football evangelists 20-30 years ago preaching the same thing - that a possession game won't work - about that game.

[In the Onion Bag]

I've never really got bitten by hurling. While I can appreciate the skill, fitness and power needed to progress in the game, as I've never had an interest in getting chased around a confined space by a man holding a weapon, I've just never got into it.

But I do love a sporting occasion, so I sat down today with an open mind, ready to be entertained.

And I have to say I was thoroughly entertained. It really was an enthralling contest and the combination of ferocity in the tackle and discipline when on the receiving end, was a marvel.

But I'm still not bitten. There are things about this game I just don't understand.

I read this morning about Brian Cody's tactical genius. But It seems to me that Kilkenny have now won 4 All Irelands in a row with tactics that comprise hitting the ball as far as they can on the general direction of the goal, then using pure physical power to ensure they win enough breaks to keep the scoreboard ticking over. Obviously he moves players into different positions depending on who they're playing, but can this really be described as tactics instead of man management?

The much marvelled sideline cut. Is it just me who thinks that striking a ball as far as you can with these is simply a waste of possession? Has anybody actually ever hit a sideline ball 10 metres into a teammates hands? Or is this frowned upon by the hurling fraternity?

Fouls. Is anything actually a foul in this game? Don't get me wrong, the game is a better spectacle for the lack of whistling, but it seemed to me today that the referee used his whistle at timed intervals - to give the lads a break - rather than as a reaction to any events that happened. So every 3 minutes Kilkenny enjoyed a free, then 3 minutes latet Tipp got one, and so on.

Goalkeepers. If their counterparts in games like ice hockey and lacrosse are wise enough to wear headgear (plus countless other pieces of armour), surely their claims that it impedes their vision are just the cries of a madman.

Soloing the ball. It seems that you can a) run as far as you like with the ball in your hand, b) transfer the ball between hand and stick at completely random intervals, or c) run with the ball on the end of your stick if you're a real show-off. As the referee never blows you up, why doesn't everyone just run with ball in hand?



The commentators definitely prefer hurling though, so I might even watch a few more games next year to see if I can decipher any of these things.

   No relation of mine.

Nor mine

[Bud Wiser]

One other thing struck me today as odd. Tipp's keeper played an excellent short puck out to his wing back. What did the wing-back do? He turned, and without looking, drove the ball as far as he could up the field. Which surely defeated any purpose of the short puck out. At least the keeper could have pretended he was aiming at a certain target.

There are a lot of things struck you yesterday it seems.  The wing back should not have to look where he was hitting the ball into, it was the forwards job to be in the position where the ball was being delivered to before the wing back even deliverd it.  This would all be worked out on the training ground.  For example, if the goalkeeper were to try and deliver the ball to the half forward line from a puck out then it would be in the air for a few seconds and what you would have would be players under a high dropping ball, most of which Tommy Walsh and the Cats backs would catch because they would have time to get into position while the ball was in the aiir.  So, there was method in the wing backs madness as you saw it, it is not that he is pure stupid or anything. 

There are a few over on the hurling thread moaning about fouls being allowed to go as well but by and large they are not allowed to go but because hurling is so fast the advantage rule is applied in a lot of cases.  This is because players do not go down too often but stay on their feet and get on with it. Could you imagine in a game of soccer at premiership level if a player got the belt that Tommy Walsh got yesterday how long he would stay down?  The idea that hurling is a two puck game is as mad as the ones promoting it, ie, that the goalkeeper pucks out the ball, it is caught in mid field and sent over the bar - fairy tales category.  Teams can go 12 minutes in games like yesterday without scoring a single point from play.

Fair play to you for taking the trouble to watch the All-Ireland Hurling Final, maybe next year you might even go to the game. It is the most exciting spectacle you could ever be at.

[puskas]

I'm in the Wobbler camp. A spectacle it surely was, but "the most exciting spectacle you'll ever be at", dunno about that. I've been to AIHFs before, and enjoyed the occasion, but it needs to be in the blood to be truly excited about it.

[Main Street]

I had the radio on while the players were parading around behind the band. Micheál Ó M. used the opportunity to introduce each player as if they were going into ring for Olympic gold, an outstanding exciting snip of broadcasting build-up prior to throw in.
On TV, while the players were parading, the panel were just chatting to each other.

[didlyi]

Hurling has become more of a possesion game in recent years, hense the lack of ground hurling and over head pulls that were a feature of the old game. However handpassing the ball around the pitch like football will never happen in hurling thank god. If footballers could kick a ball as far as hurlers can drive a sliothar then Im sure they would kick out of defense to their forwards and risk losing possesion.

[lynchbhoy]

The thing is, in hurling it isn't really about keeping possession (because that simply cannot work), it's about getting scores and keeping the ball away from your own goal. So, if you get a sideline in your half backline, you get it into your full forward line. Hurling forwards need to win their own ball. As for it being a skill - it is so because of the difficulty of the technique.

didnt that cork team that have just past their prime, not use a football style handpassing /posession based running game that newtownshandrum developed then cork adopted?

[johnneycool]

Hurling has become more of a possesion game in recent years, hense the lack of ground hurling and over head pulls that were a feature of the old game. However handpassing the ball around the pitch like football will never happen in hurling thank god. If footballers could kick a ball as far as hurlers can drive a sliothar then Im sure they would kick out of defense to their forwards and risk losing possesion.

Cork took the running game to a new level as it suited the players available to them, Kilkenny are happy to pump high balls into their forwards as most of their forwards are good in the air and if they aren't they can get onto the breaking ball.

Kerry started lumping high balls into donaghy and it too was seen as a great tactic to overcome the dreaded blanket defence, not all football teams have a Donaghy so they run it basketball style the length of the pitch, same tactical genius IMO.

[Fuzzman]

I was lucky enough to be offered a ticket yesterday and went to only my second hurling match. (Have saw others before football matches though)

I must say I really enjoyed both matches as the woman next to me had a son in the Galway minor team.

I'd rarely watch it on the box and wouldn't know too many of the players.

My observations was that the ref was letting a lot of things go and the game did flow much better but a lot of fans around me were irate with the ref. I'd say if it was my team I'd be pissed off with some fouls being ignored and then that penalty being given when he was miles outside the box.

A very robust game with high intensity and no gamesmanship.
I thought Tipp just hit a lot of long hit & hope balls whereas I thought KK were more measured with their passes into the forward line.

Have ye all heard Mr Cody tear strips of poor chinless Marty Morrissey. Class interview & fair play to him in my book.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2009/0906/kilkenny_quotes.html

Another point I heard on the radio this morning was how people whinge about Kilkenny being hard to listen to.
I suppose we could say the same about Kerry or Tyrone fans in recent years but FFS it's the biggest match of the year & I think there are too many negative minded jealous fans who think you shouldn't be enjoying yer big win in case you offend others.

[lynchbhoy]

Cork took the running game to a new level as it suited the players available to them, Kilkenny are happy to pump high balls into their forwards as most of their forwards are good in the air and if they aren't they can get onto the breaking ball.

Kerry started lumping high balls into donaghy and it too was seen as a great tactic to overcome the dreaded blanket defence, not all football teams have a Donaghy so they run it basketball style the length of the pitch, same tactical genius IMO.

in football -
mayo beat the blanket defence a couple of years ago by spreading the ball via footpassing quickly to the other flank where there were less defenders and the forward could go man on man. It worked. Not sure why mayo fecked up thereafter.

other teams have taken this lead and Cork showed that moving the ball quickly, wide and having their bigger stronger men running at opponents taking them on , creating space and varying their scored from all sides and distances from in front of goal works to keep the defence guessing.

very hard to create a static tactic in such a dynamic game where people and positions are always moving.
Much the same in hurling where you dont get too much time on the ball - as its catch, bring it under control before being ready to dispatch the ball in either a pass or a shot - at this point a player is usually on top of you so retaining posession by way of an accurate pass isnt always possible, so hurling passes are more of a lottery (you need more space to swing the hurly therefore you need to get rid of it faster).

cant compare the two codes.
Watching defensive teams can be attractive to some as there is art in defending.
Watching football and hurling teams doing what they do best is fantastic too - just people see different things and as these are different games, we cannot really compare. Just learn to appreciate !

[Galwaybhoy]

A very robust game with high intensity and no gamesmanship.
I thought Tipp just hit a lot of long hit & hope balls whereas I thought KK were more measured with their passes into the forward line.

Why do you say that?

As for playing a possession game in hurling, not a hope.  Its not like football where you can hand pass it up the field, if players tried that for the whole game I'd imagine they would be leaving the field of play at full time with a few broken fingers.

[Bogball XV]

excellent point about the sideline cut, i've often thought the same.  Unless you have a gifted individual like JC, it almost hands the advantage to the team who've erred in putting the ball out of play - you're a man down (the player taking the sideline cut) and he lobs it in there (if he's lucky and doesn't fluff it), chances are you'll lose possession.
I'd also rather see two men on the line for penalties, yesterday's should have been saved and from games i've seen, perhaps as much as 30-40% are saved - hardly fair?
Another point is the amount of things that are let go by referee's, I know everyone thinks that it's man's game and not like nancy boy football, but still.  Bud talks about the advantage being played, that'd be grand if there were a chance to call it back or if the ref went back and took some action against the walsh's of this world when play has stopped, but they just seem to ignore it.

[lynchbhoy]

I thought it was pretty spectacular - the amount of gamesmanship and cute /dirty play in both teams yesterday.
Far too often the Antrims and Waterfords are blown away not just with hurling skill,but the cute hoorism and wee bits of craft that the likes of hurling superpowers Kilkenny, tipp and cork bring to the game.
From running almost in front of a freetaker (Conor OMahoney) to wee digs and pushes/pulls / slaps off the ball (Tmmy Walsh) - it showed that these are not robots, that they are men willing to do what it takes - like Canty was accused of in the AI semi final v tyrone.

OK maybe not in the true spirit of the game, but dont kid ourselves.
this isnt under 10s - this is the AI final and top level senior hurling.
Two very good teams squaring off and tipp unlucky at not taking the two goal chances they created. You knind of knew when these were missed that Tipp would pay for missing.
Then when Benny dunne got the line it was ominous.
I enjoyed the game. Good final and exciting enough.

great advert for hurling, and I liked the wee bit of 'craft' in it !

[Galwaybhoy]

Lads if you forget about the sending off and the one or two shoulders into the Head/chest which should have earned yellow cards it wasn't a dirty game, just a hard hitting fair game of hurling.  I was saying to my father when we were watching yesterday, the players (with the exception of Benny Dunne) should be praised for the lack of fights, punches thrown, off the ball belts and the general lack of pushing , shoving and handbags sort of stuff we see in other matches.

If I want to show someone what a game of hurling is all about I'd be popping in that dvd and showing them that match.

[Zulu]

While I enjoyed the game and it was a good one I think it is getting a very easy ride off the media pundits and posters around here. There was an awful lot of fouling in the game, with face guards and jersey pulling a constant aspect of the game. There were also some terrible tackles that went unpunished and Dunnes wild pull is about as dirty as you'll see in a big IC game. I'm all in favour of leaving games flow but Kirwan basically ignored the rule book yesterday and that isn't good for the game. I think the poor quality of the previous 2 AI's and Kilkenny's dominance has left many pundits so glad that we got a good close game that tehy are willing to ignore any negatives.