Mountbatten memorial sparks row in Donegal

[gallsman]

I'd like to f**king think so. Why bother drawing attention to his continued use of the phrase? Drawing attention to it appears to suggest you have some issue with them being described as innocent.

As Tony said, of course it's Mountbatten's fault they died...

Sligonian, I made no attempt to twist anything.

[AZOffaly]

Yes I know, but it signifies the union and conlization of nations, its a symbol of britain taking over of Ireland. Its not about peace, its about rule brittania. The Tri Colour is about peace between protestants and Catholics, more appeasemet and reaching out by us. 2 totally different meanings clearly.

They would say it signifies the union between those nations joined under the Great British Empire, rather than some sort of triumphalist battle banner.

People offended by the tricolour would say that a) It's the flag of a foreign country and b) Who asked us whether we wanted to be represented on the flag?

We may claim that the flag represents peace between Unionist and Nationalist (rather than Catholic and Protestant), but who actually asked the Unionists if they were happy to be on the Tricolour? That's a bit presumptious.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I understand and agree that the Irish flag is a well intentioned statement, but from the other side, why is it any less provocative than the UJ.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

I'd like to f**king think so. Why bother drawing attention to his continued use of the phrase? Drawing attention to it appears to suggest you have some issue with them being described as innocent.

As Tony said, of course it's Mountbatten's fault they died...

Sligonian, I made no attempt to twist anything.

Ah wind your neck in, you misunderstood my point, not my problem.

[gallsman]

I'd like to f**king think so. Why bother drawing attention to his continued use of the phrase? Drawing attention to it appears to suggest you have some issue with them being described as innocent.

As Tony said, of course it's Mountbatten's fault they died...

Sligonian, I made no attempt to twist anything.

Ah wind your neck in, you misunderstood my point, not my problem.

Typical confrontational response.

Considering the fact that the way you phrased your post implies the children involved weren't innocent, I'd venture that you do have a problem. But then again, that's nothing new for you, as you always seem to have plenty of problems on the board.

[SLIGONIAN]

I'd like to f**king think so. Why bother drawing attention to his continued use of the phrase? Drawing attention to it appears to suggest you have some issue with them being described as innocent.

As Tony said, of course it's Mountbatten's fault they died...

Sligonian, I made no attempt to twist anything.

Ah wind your neck in, you misunderstood my point, not my problem.

Typical confrontational response.

Considering the fact that the way you phrased your post implies the children involved weren't innocent, I'd venture that you do have a problem. But then again, that's nothing new for you, as you always seem to have plenty of problems on the board.

Bullshit Gallsman, you interpretated GD abu words to suit your own agenda or vendatta for whatever reason. The kids were Innocent (no one is saying othrwise), this is getting to gutter talk now. Cop on will ya.

Yes I know, but it signifies the union and conlization of nations, its a symbol of britain taking over of Ireland. Its not about peace, its about rule brittania. The Tri Colour is about peace between protestants and Catholics, more appeasemet and reaching out by us. 2 totally different meanings clearly.

They would say it signifies the union between those nations joined under the Great British Empire, rather than some sort of triumphalist battle banner.

People offended by the tricolour would say that a) It's the flag of a foreign country and b) Who asked us whether we wanted to be represented on the flag?

We may claim that the flag represents peace between Unionist and Nationalist (rather than Catholic and Protestant), but who actually asked the Unionists if they were happy to be on the Tricolour? That's a bit presumptious.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I understand and agree that the Irish flag is a well intentioned statement, but from the other side, why is it any less provocative than the UJ.

Ya you are, your interpretations are wrong in my opinion, so we'll have to agree to disagree. I feel Ive explained it enough before. I suppose I will say the intention and meaning behind the uj is to celebrate the colonization of other countries and unite them by whatever means, equals the so called brit empire and meaning and intention behind the Tricolour is to reach out to decentants of our colonizers and to promote peace, protestants should embrace it IMO, take the hand of peace and all that. I cant be any clearer to be honest.

[Main Street]

Edit- btw Sligonian, I have tosay that the flying of the british flag in sligo while slightly provocative, its not a reason for violence. Whatever about him being a target, imo I think it was a waste of time as he was a nothing. Poor kids that got caught up in it. Cant blame mountbatten for that really, the royals are well known for not being able tothink for themselves. Sure ist only a hundred years or less since they have been wiping their own erses

Though there is a huge difference when its Mountbatten, flying a flag, outside his castle in the republic.
I have no idea about the protocol necessities, if any, of such an act. But in a time of war, it does give one the impression of announcing, here I am, a prime arrogant symbol of everything that the British Empire is about, living in a delusional world where acap tipping natives made him feel safe enough to carry on with his life as if nothing was happening in the 6 counties.

As to the value of his assassination. At a minimum, I can guess that no matter where you were in the world that day , you would have heard the news.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

I'd like to f**king think so. Why bother drawing attention to his continued use of the phrase? Drawing attention to it appears to suggest you have some issue with them being described as innocent.

As Tony said, of course it's Mountbatten's fault they died...

Sligonian, I made no attempt to twist anything.

Ah wind your neck in, you misunderstood my point, not my problem.

Typical confrontational response.

Considering the fact that the way you phrased your post implies the children involved weren't innocent, I'd venture that you do have a problem. But then again, that's nothing new for you, as you always seem to have plenty of problems on the board.

YOU read my post (to EG btw) and YOU drew an inference from it that wasn't there, as for the rest of your post, well care to tell me about these problems I seem to have on the board? Or is it just that some of my views would be different then yours. And finally if telling you to wind your neck in after you stating "I'd like to f**king think so." is confrontational then I think maybe it's you who has the problem.

[delboy]

Yes I know, but it signifies the union and conlization of nations, its a symbol of britain taking over of Ireland. Its not about peace, its about rule brittania. The Tri Colour is about peace between protestants and Catholics, more appeasemet and reaching out by us. 2 totally different meanings clearly.

They would say it signifies the union between those nations joined under the Great British Empire, rather than some sort of triumphalist battle banner.

People offended by the tricolour would say that a) It's the flag of a foreign country and b) Who asked us whether we wanted to be represented on the flag?

We may claim that the flag represents peace between Unionist and Nationalist (rather than Catholic and Protestant), but who actually asked the Unionists if they were happy to be on the Tricolour? That's a bit presumptious.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I understand and agree that the Irish flag is a well intentioned statement, but from the other side, why is it any less provocative than the UJ.

Agree with the above, as a unionist i take issue with the tricolour as i feel its trying to lay claim to us, which in fact it is/was since at the time it was created the republic was laying claim to NI. Things have changed on that front post GFA of course but the tricolour has neagtive connations for me. If there every was a UI, it would have to be one of the things that changed.

Of course i'll be told that im talking rubbish and its not the same as the UJ/'butchers apron' etc etc.

[mylestheslasher]

It may be worth noting that mountbattons opinions on a united Ireland (i.e. he was in favour of it, based on his experiences in India) did not come to light until after his death when extracts from his diary and letters came into the public domain.

It is also true that he was gung ho in his insistance on surrounding himself with family in friends in a place where he knew he was a target and at the same time insisting that the he did not want proper security. That was reckless on his part. As was flying a union jack although I did not hear about that before now. It still does not excuse McMahon and McGirls actions, watching kids on a boat and then pushing a button to blow them up. They could have abandoned this mission but choose to kill children and that makes them scumbags to me, that should have been court martialled for what they did.

[SLIGONIAN]

It may be worth noting that mountbattons opinions on a united Ireland (i.e. he was in favour of it, based on his experiences in India) did not come to light until after his death when extracts from his diary and letters came into the public domain.

It is also true that he was gung ho in his insistance on surrounding himself with family in friends in a place where he knew he was a target and at the same time insisting that the he did not want proper security. That was reckless on his part. As was flying a union jack although I did not hear about that before now. It still does not excuse McMahon and McGirls actions, watching kids on a boat and then pushing a button to blow them up. They could have abandoned this mission but choose to kill children and that makes them scumbags to me, that should have been court martialled for what they did.

I agree 100% with all points, said better than I could of.

[Myles Na G.]

It may be worth noting that mountbattons opinions on a united Ireland (i.e. he was in favour of it, based on his experiences in India) did not come to light until after his death when extracts from his diary and letters came into the public domain.

It is also true that he was gung ho in his insistance on surrounding himself with family in friends in a place where he knew he was a target and at the same time insisting that the he did not want proper security. That was reckless on his part. As was flying a union jack although I did not hear about that before now. It still does not excuse McMahon and McGirls actions, watching kids on a boat and then pushing a button to blow them up. They could have abandoned this mission but choose to kill children and that makes them scumbags to me, that should have been court martialled for what they did.

By the IRA? You jest, surely. This would be the same IRA which consistently left bombs in public places in the full knowledge that kids were likely to be nearby (think Warrington)? The same boyos who planted bombs under cars knowing that they had limited control over who got into the car or who it exploded beside? The same IRA which shot down off duty security force personnel in front of their children? You dignify them way beyond what the scumbags deserve.

[Son_of_Sam]

which in fact it is/was since at the time it was created the republic was laying claim to NI.
[/quote]

Just a correction there, when the Irish Tricolour was created there was no Republic or Northern Ireland, the flag was a gift from France in the 19'th century as part of the fraternity of nations with Republican values (I and the French mean it entriely in the way Republican is meant in nearly every country except Ireland, somehow the words Republican & Nationalist have swapped places in the lexicon of Hiberno-English ). It was not a claim over one group or the other but a symbol of peace and the ideals of World Republicanism.

To be honest I always thought the Green flag with the Golden Harp & Éireann go Brách was a more attractive flag.

[Rossfan]

Plenty of condemnation of McMahon/McGirl also Warrington etc of bombs being set off not caring who was killed injured etc.
Very true and correct
BUT........
I'll take ye a lot more seriously when I see equal condemnation of NATO/US pilots dropping loads of bombs from 10 miles in the air down on crowded civilian cities( Belgrade,Baghdad etc) or of Israeli Helicopter pilots who fire rockets into densely populated apartment blocks in Gaza.

As for the UJ and us being part of it because there's a cross shaped like an X to represent us.
Nobody asked our permission to do this so it's nothing to do with me thanks very much.

[delboy]

which in fact it is/was since at the time it was created the republic was laying claim to NI.


Just a correction there, when the Irish Tricolour was created there was no Republic or Northern Ireland, the flag was a gift from France in the 19'th century as part of the fraternity of nations with Republican values (I and the French mean it entriely in the way Republican is meant in nearly every country except Ireland, somehow the words Republican & Nationalist have swapped places in the lexicon of Hiberno-English ). It was not a claim over one group or the other but a symbol of peace and the ideals of World Republicanism.

To be honest I always thought the Green flag with the Golden Harp & Éireann go Brách was a more attractive flag.

Yes point accepted, i know that it was kicking about in one guise or another from sometime in the mid 1800s (I think), but my understanding was that it only came into use/prominence around the time of the easter rising.

In its conception that may well have been the point as you say but i think that it has come to to symbolise something different from its original ideal. At the time the republic laid claim to the territory of NI despite the majority of the people wanting to remain part of the union (I know it was specifically setup that way). In that context of the republic laying claim to the land you can understand how the inclusion of orange in the flag could be viewed as a laying claim to the whole of ireland including NI.

In the context of modern day northern ireland the tri colour much like the union jack is not a flag of unity but rather a flag of seperation, used to mark out territory. It has become completely identified with irish republicism and hence despite its conceivers best intentions its not a flag that any unionist would identify with.

If a UI happens it should be consigned to history (along with the UJ and ulster flag) a new flag which all people could rally around should instead be brought into use. I'd actually like to see any new flag have some red in it to represent ulster (since NI makes up a large chunk of it). I could identify more with that than orange to be honest.

[Myles Na G.]

Plenty of condemnation of McMahon/McGirl also Warrington etc of bombs being set off not caring who was killed injured etc.
Very true and correct
BUT........
I'll take ye a lot more seriously when I see equal condemnation of NATO/US pilots dropping loads of bombs from 10 miles in the air down on crowded civilian cities( Belgrade,Baghdad etc) or of Israeli Helicopter pilots who fire rockets into densely populated apartment blocks in Gaza.
As for the UJ and us being part of it because there's a cross shaped like an X to represent us.
Nobody asked our permission to do this so it's nothing to do with me thanks very much.

I have no problem condemning indiscriminate killing, whether its carried out by private armies like the IRA or by armies of states. The victims end up just as dead.